Reincarnation

[john]

I watched a program on (UK) TV the other night. It was about people who believe they were famous people in their past lifes. Of course, for each celebrity or famous history figure there are numerous people claiming to be the reincarnation of them.

The program focused on one Merlin reincarnate and one Father Time, which was another name for God. The Father Time reincarnate was on prescribed medication for his condition. Incidently, he was in another program 'Those That Were Jesus' or a similar title and he namechecked the BKs a few times.

Some points the program makers made were. All the reincarnates were of famous people, nobody claimed to be reincarnated of an ordinary person. They seemed to be trying to fill a missing gap in their lives.

Of course, we on the forum know people who are claiming to be famous incarnations/reincarnations. If Father Time was born in India, would he be a famous Guru with his own cult following by now, rather than on medication and treated as a bit of a nutter?

What differentiates a fantasist (or nutter) from a true incarnate/reincarnate?

[fluffy bunny]

What differentiates a fantasist (or nutter) from a true incarnate/reincarnate?

I think you got it in one, the number (and quality) of their followers. Most primitive societies, of which India and its religions is still largely are, create myth or status for mental illness which they did or do not understand. Even in the West, until recently, one would use euphemisms like "touch by God".

I knew of a kid that grew up "remembering" their past life but having it beaten out of them by parents that were afraid. Good old Jagdish used to document many such alleged cases, including those of animals and you know the whole Lama belief system.

In my time, I went to two different psychics/regression artists and they both told me about a recent past life. Unfortunately, they both appear to conflict with each other timewise. So unless there is two of me in here ... I do not think that anything from that corner (psychism/channelling/hypnosis) is reliable.

I do think some phenomenon is going on, and that the skeptics are wrong. It is just clear time and time again that any psychic source is ultimately unreliable. You might get 9/10ths right, but then the 10/10th completely misleads you. On the other hand, the archetypes we are given could be "what we needed" to encourage us a certain element in that time of our life. Sadly, I was neither Cleopatra nor Jesus ... but I do know someone that "knows" they were the honest criminal that was cruxified next to Jesus and has met him.

Why do mad people always think they are someone famous? Or why is their knowledge of history the last part of their brain to malfunction? A question for someone else not me ...

[paulkershaw]

In my time, I went to two different psychics/regression artists and they both told me about a recent past life. Unfortunately, they both appear to conflict with each other timewise. So unless there is two of me in here ... I do not think that anything from that corner (psychism/channelling/hypnosis) is reliable.

I do think some phenomenon is going on, and that the skeptics are wrong. It is just clear time and time again that any psychic source is ultimately unreliable. You might get 9/10ths right, but then the 10/10th completely misleads you.

We could add in the possibility of Parallel Universes or Parallel Lives either ... could be that the psychic or intuitive was tuning in to the vibrations of self but in another parallel universe (or life) and calling it a past birth?

Gwyneth Paltrow in the movie Closing Doors (I hope thats the name of the movie ...!) does a great job in the lead role as the movie examines parallel lives and how it all comes together as one in the end ... again it could be connection with the Higher Self, Subconcious and Concious Self all playing out various roles.

[bansy]

Closing Doors (I hope thats the name of the movie

Sliding Doors.

[alladin]

Interesting mental experiment, the one of "sliding doors". Some suggest jogging backwards, also as an exercise!.

Hi, Ex- L, before I post a summary of the first book I read on hypnosis, let me just quote from that:

The healthy person says, "Me is me and you are you". A neurotic says. "I want to be the President, I'd like being a movie star" ( for BKs, angels, deities???)". A crazy psycopathic says, "I am the President, I am the sun, I am this table". He lost his self image, his identity and the one of other people.

This connects with the "compensation" defensive mechanism. Due to frustration and inferiority complex the person may develop compensatory abilities and a weak one becomes a Hero (Arjuna). Demosthenes becomes a great orator overcoming stammering, or short Napoleon becomes a great dominator, or else develop grandeur delirium (don't know the exact English word for it!) expressing rigid and violent behaviours towards other people (strictness in BK family??).

Cheers. Hope one day a professional psychoanalyst will come on the Forum and give us more light!

[paulkershaw]

Sliding Doors

Ta for this. It did not sound quite right when I wrote it! - Perhaps its an indication of where I am at at this moment!

xx P :wink:

[fluffy bunny]

Cheers. Hope one day a professional psychoanalyst will come on the Forum and give us more light!

The person to approach is Dr Julia Howell who lived with and studied the BKs in Australia as an academic. She wrote at length about the compensatory structures within the BK system.

Howell, J. D. (1997) "Altered States of Consciousness (ASC) induction techniques, spiritual experiences within the Brahma Kumaris". I try and dig out the complete reference.

[arjun]

Om Shanti.

A few hours ago, I was watching a news channel named 'India TV'. They were reporting about a 14 child from a village in the Saharanpur District of Uttar Pradesh state of North India. The child has studied only upto 8th class and has never visited America. Until 9th class he was a normal child, playing with his friends in the village and fields. He did not know how to speak English. Neither does anyone in his village knows how to speak English. But suddenly he remembered that he is an American scientist and since then his voice, his behaviour has changed dramatically.

When I saw the boy speaking on TV I was totally surprised. The boy was speaking in a completely American accent with all the facial expressions and lip movements of a grown up American. In fact, I was not able to completely understand what he was speaking because of the American accent. Recently two of my relatives (a couple) who have been living in America for the last 40 years had visited us. Even their accent has not changed so much in 40 years.

Suddenly the boy has started showing more interest in the subjects of science and Mathematics. He has become so intelligent in these subjects that even his teachers consult him whenever they do not know anything. It was told that in the recent exams the boy left the Hindi question paper blank while he scored more than 95 percent marks in science and maths. The boy says he was an American scientist in the previous birth and had even written three books. The boy has started research in the field of physics and says he wants to become the greatest scientist in the world.

It is being debated now on TV whether it is a case of the boy recalling his past birth or is it a case of exchange of souls because the boy who did not know how to speak English and knew only Hindi, has now forgotten Hindi. Although he has studied only upto 8th class, he can solve questions related to college level science and mathematics.

The weblink to the newschannel is indiatvnews.com. But it took quite some time for the page to open completely. And the above news item does not seem to have been put up on their website so far.

The other day another channel (CNN-IBN) was showing how a girl born after NASA space scientist Kalpana Chawla's death claimed to be Kalpana in her previous birth.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[fluffy bunny]

It is being debated now on TV whether it is a case of the boy recalling his past birth or is it a case of exchange of souls because the boy who did not know how to speak English and knew only Hindi, has now forgotten Hindi. Although he has studied only upto 8th class, he can solve questions related to college level science and mathematics.

Very interesting Arjun. Thanks. How does science cope with such anomalies?

We call that a "walk-in" ... where another soul "walks" into another body. They say it can happened if the first soul dies/leaves the body or sometimes if its body is really sick etc and the two souls do a deal; "one body, two engines" as Lekhraj Kirpalani said.

I knew a male that had a great mission to achieve. He was almost killed. It appears that when he was out of his body he did some sort of deal and came back with another spirit. Neither he nor I knew about any of this but I took him to two entirely separate mystics; one psychic, one channeller and they both said exactly the same thing to him without prompting. It helped put things together.

We thought about trying to heal him and send the other spirit away but were advised against it as there was a risk the body would die they said (because of the karma of the original soul I guess). Its a similar but not such a pronounced story as this one.

Whether it is true or not ... or what is going on ... who knows. I am open minded. He was a bit of a healer, street mystic. Have they taken this kid to America yet?

[arjun]

Very interesting Arjun. Thanks. How does science cope with such anomalies?

The newsreader sought the views of a US-based Indian scientist and he also concurred that it is a case of the boy remembering his past birth. Based on the boy's descriptions, and after some research he has guessed it could be an American scientist (I do not remember the name exactly. It was something like Paris Berad???) who died in 1964.

Have they taken this kid to America yet?

Not so far. But I am sure that the interest he has generated all over India and among Indians based in foreign countries, he would definitely be taken to US for further research.

I have come to know from news reports on the same IndiaTV channel that the boy was transformed a few months ago after an incident in his life. Once in his fit of anger he hit his Father with a brick and when he saw blood oozing out of his Father's head he became a recluse. He confined himself within a room for about three months and when he emerged out of the confinement he was a changed boy. He started claiming himself to be an American scientist.

An opinion was sought as to whether a boy can learn so much of science and mathematics within such a short period and whether one can learn a new language with a new accent within such a short period?

Experts said that although it can be possible for a child with extraordinary intelligence. But in this particular case it is hard to believe it to be case of extraordinary intelligence because he was an ordinary village boy with negligible knowledge of English till a few months ago. Even the hardest of non-believers of rebirth are finding it hard to accept that it is not a case of recalling memory of past birth.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[arjun]

Om Shanti.

Today's 'Times of India' newspaper has carried a story on the wonderboy Rajesh. Here is the weblink: Village Boy Suddently Acquires American Accent.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[arjun]

Om Shanti.

The CNN-IBN channel (Hindi version) had called the wonderkid Rajesh to its studio and has been airing live interview with him today, where specialists and laymen could ring up to the studio to talk to him. The channel informed that is correspondent was with Rajesh for the past ten days and his behaviour and American accent was uniform throughout the ten days and it was not fake as many people were doubting. The news anchor informed that the boy had really forgotten how to speak Hindi although he was still able to undertand Hindi. Although Rajesh speaks English in American accent, but his English is not perfect. The news channel was showing the live clippings of his village, family and friends. If you look at his parents (who appear to be almost illiterate, backward and poor) you would not believe the transformation that has been brought about in the kid suddenly. When the interviewer asked the boy how he feels when people or his friends, who think of him as a fake, tease him, he cooly replied that he tries to convince them of his transformation. A psychologist who talked to him over phone said that it is possibe that the boy may forget his American accent after some months or years and may start speaking Hindi again, but his present condition definitely showed that he had developed extraordinary talent.

Since I do not have time, I could not watch the interview for long. Those who have watched the programme can share some more information.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[paulkershaw]

Hope I am not going 'off' topic here - the topic police are watching ... but considering we're talking about reincarnation in this thread and the forum is All & Everything, does anyone dare to say what or who they feel they were in a previous birth ...

I'll start if ya like: I reckon in one birth I was a long Victorian skirted, bar dancing, can can-style, hard drinking, smooth luvin' 'gal' working (really working ~ yaknow what I mean!) the mining towns of old. Enuf said methinks, before I totally ruin my hard earned reputation ...

[tinydot]

What evidence do we really have for reincarnation?

I don't mean the sense of identity of the self having memories of his childhood in his lifetime, even though his body changes completely every seven years. That won't qualify for the real concept of reincarnation.

Can there be a sense of identity of the soul from one birth into another after the death of the body?

How can we look at this concept of reincarnation in a "more" objective way?

[john]

How can we look at this concept of reincarnation in a "more" objective way?

Maybe past life regression is a place to look at.

Possibly the best way to have proof is if the person being regressed can give facts, names and places, which are not readily available, and are checkable.

I have been witness to a past life regression and, at the time, I had no reason to doubt the validity. The person being regressed relived a life before as a soldier, explained how he died and what it was like. He explained how he had fallen into a lake or river and drowned, there was no sense of panic after his life was over, just a sense of freedom.