Newcomer ...

[john]

It is not said in any Murli that we should go and live in a center,

I don't think it was suggested that you live in a centre, more that a person with an active part in the Yagya would be gaining real life experience. Someone who reads Murli but doesn't apply it in their life in a practical way becomes a fantasist. Fantasists are liable to spout noble ideas here, there and everywhere with no grounding. It is easy to talk but not so easy to do the walk with it.

[abrahma kumar]

I don't think it was suggested that you live in a centre, more that a person with an active part in the Yagya would be gaining real life experience. Someone who reads Murli but doesn't apply it in their life in a practical way becomes a fantasist. Fantasists are liable to spout noble ideas here, there and everywhere with no grounding. It is easy to talk but not so easy to do the walk with it.

John's point can not be over-emphasised. And i say this while having to hold my own proverbial hand up to acknowledge that there has been/is more that a little bit of the fantasist about myself. Maybe my exiting the BK is about finally awakening to this self-truth so that i can learn how to discern noble ideals and objectives from the nitty-gritty of reality. It may not be a one-fix cures all but bit by bit i hope to get there.

A lot of the time this means breaking old and well entrenched patters that do nothing for self-confidence and in fact have the potential to hurt others very greatly. Unfortunately, sorry does not always make it alright and so i see a lot of mirrors in these few posts to remind me to be true to the journey of uncovering my higher self; and of recognising the higher self of others. They too would love a smooth journey and not be derailed by my stuff, so to speak.

[mr green]

I lived in a center for many years. I am not complaining about it at all. In fact, I am glad I had such an intense bk experience on one hand. At least it gives me the experience to talk about it rather than just spouting off.

It's the abuses that happened to me in the centre I am not happy about. And the subsequent pain I am enduring after leaving such a full on intense life and to have my faith smashed by those around me.

Anyways, I am glad I don't live there anymore.

[andrey]

We should follow whatever is said in the Murli (Shrimat) and not what is the commonly accepted mixture of Shrimat and human beings mind of the so-called brahmin life. It is said that we have to have only one support. It is also easy to follow, this is the easy path; easy knowledge and easy Raja Yoga, easy to imbibe, easy to put into practice.

In the Murli it is said many times, "The Father does not give you any difficulty, just consider yourself as soul and remember me". This is to follow the Murli practically. This we can do anywhere whilst doing anything and no one can know about other to what extent one follows this.

There are some misconceptions of what is to be BK and what is Yagya. BK means son/daughter or Brahma. There were also the question why am i PBK when I am fond of BK? Because i believe, and it is said in the Murli, that we should add the Prajapita (the P), because are we, me and you, are sons/daughter born spiritually without a mother or without the Father? Both are needed. So BKs are PBKs and every human being is PBK; son/daughter of one mother and Father.

The whole world is one family, not only Brahmin family. Yes, Brahmin family, but the whole world are brahmins. One does not become brahmin when one goes to the center, dress white, read Murli or eat vegetarian, but when he recognises the mother and the Father. It is said in the Murli to ask the BKs, "if you call yourself a BK, where is your Brahma?" You are in the corporeal world, creation is done here in the corporeal world, mother and Father should be practically here in corporeal.

Yagya is Yagya of knowledge and not the money that are collected and the buildings built. Those who live in the knowledge, with the awareness they live in the Yagya. Their home becomes a center and their money become Yagya money. Surrendering is surrendering the intellect firstly. This is more important but also surrendering to the Father. Also it is not the Shrimat of Father that brothers surrender. This is for kumaris to safeguard their purity. For brothers it is said that they can live anywhere and do anything, whatever they want. They can manage themselves. They have to work. Kumaris don't have to work.

The commonly accepted Yagya is a place where in the name of a point of light (nothing) human beings exercise their power and steer the wheel as per their own will. In this place human beings meet other human beings (human beings surrender to other human beings) and in this meeting there is no hope. The aim is the creation of a world of unity where everything, the control is in only one hand.

For this, Baba is here and he can give personal advice for anyone according to everyone's situation. We are not to follow or listen to one another's mind. This is parmat. We also are not to listen to our own choice. This is manmat. Shrimat is directions of one supreme Father that are related through one corporeal body and not through anyone. We can have it from the Murli. It is for our practical life to imbibe, otherwise there is no meaning.

There it is said to do our business, remember him, benefit ourself first, then our family, and close ones - friends, then our city, country etc. We will not become pure like the sannyasis that run away and hide in ashrams. No. We firstly purify the soul (mind/intellect) through remembrance, whilst we live an ordinary household life (the lotus symbol). This is practical.

The other is external. There is also power in being incognito. It is said that it is not good to boost with your knowledge or Yoga. If in the shop there are fine things people will come themselves. We don't have to run after service, but attract souls. For this we have to ignite our own light first.

If there are problems in the BK family, why do you like that i go there to experience? One naturally avoids problems. The more we take responsibility for the brahmin family, the bigger crown he will get. But there exists, and it will ever exists, only one master of the world and we will always be the subjects.

It is said that we should consider the problems of others as our own and solve them, but here it seems as if all are perfect and everyone else imperfect, but also to the problems of others or one's own problems there is no solution.

The Purifier and creator of heaven is only the Father and it is only his responsibility. This is our practical inheritance we have not received yet, so he should be here to give it. The song is, "oh Purifier come and purify us, and the whole world", and not that "Come, relate knowledge and go, and we will purify the world." The bestower of salvation for all is only the one Father.

BKs say he came and already gave the inheritance this is the new world, heaven created in our centers, but he creates heaven to last 2500 years. These centers will end. It is the experience of the soul of self-awareness that is called to go to heaven. This is what he has come to teach and this is what we have to imbibe. Nothing more.

He has come to create and is responsible for the high stage of our soul, to uplift it, to make the soul from tamopradhan (old, dirty, unhappy) to satopradhan (new, pure, happy) through the power of the Yoga of the mind and intellect and not through facilities. And we can be happy in any place. Each Father desires happiness for his children. To give and receive happiness is also like following him and giving-taking sorrow is like following the opposite. We have to help him by helping ourselves.

He has to save the soul - it is when he saves it from thinking of the body and matter to thinking for the soul, whilst living in the old body and in the old world.

[fluffy bunny]

Why does every thread that andrey becomes engaged with become "about andrey" and repeat the same old ground?

Why cant andrey connect his answer the purpose, title or individual (subject) of each topic?

Why is andrey's response always the big club of lengthy and theoretical "Sakar Andrali" quotations? I think the answer is because you are trying to convince himself by trying to convince us and it is tedious, andrey.

I am sorry but this topic is "Newcomers ...". We are writing in response to stone and peter de. Yes, I think you are largely correct. You have a good grasp and an esoteric view of Gyan which I respect. We are united to the extent that we agree that at least each and every individual should have the access to the tools (knowlege/Murli) by which to enlighten themselves. But we also know that PBK centers/family are not heaven either.

Are their Murli quotes to say that individuals should come to live close and spend time in association with the "BK family"/center? Yes. (And self-serving manmat from the BKWSU who need cannon fodder for their military aims of world domination ...). Would it also help or risk damaging your faith if you spent close to "The Family". Yes, without doubt. You might start to understand what we are talking about for a change.

But please andrey, ... KEEP ON TOPIC ... READ THE TITLE ... RESPECT THE INDIVIDUALS THAT STARTED IT ... BE RELEVANT RATHER THAN REACTIONARY ... or react someone else, in your own topic, like abek does. The children go;

• Mummy says you're a sanyasi
  No, I am not ... you're the sanyasi ...
  No, I am not ... you are ...
  No, you are ...
  No, no you are ...
  Am not!
  Am!
  Am!
  Not ... not ... not.
  But it says in the Murli ...
  Stop it!!!

[pilatus]

Hello folks, especially peter de,

I'd like to pick up on this part of the thread.

In those early BK years the depression became a manic-depression syndrome (because of Baba pulling me up high again and again ...).

My involvement with BK was different in many respects to yours but this "up-down" effect on mood/energy/stage, plus the "in-out" involvement/commitment/discipline reaction both resonate with me.

I'd have to say that my mood/behaviour swings over the last seven years are somewhat neurotic/manic depressive/bipolar and haven't been easy for my friends and loved ones to deal with. I/we've put a lot of effort into understanding this and I'd summarize my current views as follows:

• 1. Cracking up to breakthrough may be necessary or helpful in the long-term for those of us with hardened beliefs/patterns of behaviour?
  
  2. Getting close to strong sources of spiritual energy can make our mood swings become stronger or more frequent.
  
  3. This is particularly true where there's a deep-down conflict between long-held beliefs/core values and new teaching and/or experiences.
  
  4. Is it God/Baba who's pulling us up, us responding to a call from God or just an extreme/erratic form of the inherent rhythms of life/nature?
  
  5. Even though these experiences may be painful in the short-term, they are a sign that our great potential which has been repressed/suppressed/confused for a long time is coming to the fore.
  
  6. Study of and working with bioenergetics has helped me understand, come to terms with and accept the process and work with it rather than turning to despair.
  
  7. The "ups and downs" reflect the dual nature of our existence and our world (light/dark, soul/ego, masculine/feminine, Yin/Yang, day/night, vice/virtue, sun/moon etc)

Hope this helps.

BTW (dus niet belasting toegevoegde waarde): ik kan wel een beetje nederlands schrijven als het hulpzaam zou zijn. Met vr gr

Pilatus

[andrey]

Would it also help or risk damaging your faith if you spent close to "The Family". Yes, without doubt

Is it easier to maintain faith when you are alone or when you are with alike minds?

[proy]

Is it easier to maintain faith when you are alone or when you are with alike minds?

When you are alone I should think, then you can live in a fantasy world of your own, as you seem to do. It is only the experience of being with the so called "family" that will show you what they are really like. Go and live near or in a centre, Andrey, and see how long your "faith" holds up in the reality of BK life.

[peter de]

I liked to read the long reply of Andrey. Except the part about brother and sister roles. (My feministic background says; bullsh**!). You can see this speech as theoretical talk but I too do believe that only by following the clear and simple thoughts of Baba, we can getting somewhere. BTW, Baba too is not living in any 'center', or maybe in the center of the world(s).

I often say to Him, "You can speak easy, you don't have a body that makes everything difficult". Does that mean that His words have not any value? Does the situation of Andrey means that his words are not valuable?

And Proy, is not it an important part of 'the game' that we have to live with others, just to learn not to be influenced by them?

[andrey]

We are taught to be able to be alone even whilst in public.

I hold no imaginary images about the BKs as i have had contact and made up my mind. These are my opinions and will always remain so - as are anyone else's.

It is about the gap between the teaching and the practice, that we discuss how the BKs are and not how they should be. We are all human beings with faults.

If we could arrive at some ideology that is suitable to us all, then we can together walk a path, without being concerned about who does or does not and what does he do or do not. It seems we are all on the path.

[peter de]

Hey Pilatus,

You wrote a nice piece of clearing out the situation. Thanks.

I like to reply on point 4. For me it seems obvious that ups and downs have to do with a lot of factors like biorhythm and all kinds of influences of nature (our own body and his genetics, food, other creatures ...). But the more we get involved with God the more forces from the mind will be at the foreground. It is me who is climbing to God. How, when He is pulling, I am not sure of ... By reaching out to God there comes a tension. When it becomes to strong, I shoot back and end lower than before.

[pilatus]

Hoi peter de,

Very true what you say - have been churning on this for some time now with the help of my other half (life partner). Where I am now with this is that ascending/feeling closer to the divine leads to a release of my blocked inner potential energy. This can be quite sudden and dramatic. Unlike other, more experienced/centred/balanced yogi souls - I swing quickly into an "up phase" which goes beyond being positive to over-excited/energetic/ecstatic. This can verge on manic/high octane/gas burning furnace (speaking energetically and trying to give a metaphor which expresses how it feels).

The trick is to bring this down gently to a slower burning/constant candle-like flame when I can achieve tremendous progress in a relatively short time. If I don't do, this the flame burns out (both mind and body) and I sink down into negativity and ultimately depression.

One specific aspect for me is that I am a Gemini (an Air sign) and we have an in-built duality/tendency to blow hot-and-cold. This is symbolised by our element and planet Mercury which is the closest planet to the Sun: red-hot on the side facing the Sun and ice-cold on the side facing away. I am working on/with this at the moment to seek a better self-understanding and thereby more regular/stable bioenergetic pattern. One of the tricks is to have a partner who helps keep me grounded but I am also developing interests and hobbies which are grounding e.g. gardening, working with hands ...

Met vr. gr.

[abrahma kumar]

Hoi indeed, peter de and pilatus.

I too experience this swinging ... ... into an "up phase" which goes beyond being positive to over-excited/energetic/ecstatic. This can verge on manic/high octane/gas burning furnace (speaking energetically and trying to give a metaphor which expresses how it feels). Thanks for posting.