The Tao of the Traveller

[ms orange]

Thanks Bansy ... by the way, what's the splinter group subforum? And how do i find it?

[bansy]

I did not realise there are quite a few posters online right now. Everytime I go away and come back and refresh the screen, the posts are all jumbled up again.

what's the splinter group subforum? And how do i find it?

Where was I. Oh yes, the splinter groups are those organisations that have left "Raja Yoga" and so are mostly ex-BKs and formed their own versions of Gyan. Sometimes not so dissimilar to BK Gyan. Many of these folks are of Indian background and have been in the Yoga field for many years and thus have quite a large background history with the BKWSU. The question begs why they left the BKWSU after so much devotion to the BKWSU and to the Dadis, Supreme Soul Shiva, and possibly Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) himself, and much knowledge of the Murlis.

I think many BKs or ex-BKs alike are unaware of them until it came to light within this forum. The largest of the splinter group is the PBK - Advanced party (called Shankar party by BKWSU), but they are not so much as a splinter but an organisation in their own right, so they have their own subforum. The other splinters are much smaller (or the information gathered so far seems to make it be so) and you can find it by clicking on the Forum link given at the top of this page Home >> Chat >> Forum, scroll down and you will see "BK Splinter Groups". Or simply click, here.

Please note that anyone is able to post in any subforum and is not restricted just because it says "PBK" or "Splinter group" (exception is Youth Camp subforum, where youths can only post there).

[ms orange]

Oh ... THOSE splinter groups! Oh yes, I know about those very well. But they do my head in, so I tend not to go there. I get a headache just reading some of the posts. I am much to much of a buddhu to get into some of those topics. Simpleton. That's me!

[arjun]

• The BK "God" appears to work to a copyleft principle, e.g. "anyone can use it, copy it, share it ... and will modify it".

I think you will have to modify your statement. It is not 'anyone', but 'the Murli Department of BKWSO" which can use it, copy it, share it and modify it. :evil:

As this site proves, there are many BKs who are thirsting for Murlis but the same are not being made available by the BKWSO. :cry:

[fluffy bunny]

... a Dr. PhD simpleton.

Yes, I am really sorry for those BKs. That they have to come to us to ask to supply them, Arjun, it is pathetic but a good indicator of where things lie. Fine, I can understand why the Brahma-kumaris would not want to feed them to the "barracudas"(us) ... but to keep them from their own elderly, sick and those in the armed forces!

Why won't you discuss that and issues like it, ms o? How can we reconcile our differences if there is no discussion?

I hope this is not another "reconciliation on our terms" like we went through with Jayanti and her team of advisors. Its laughable. It has been reported that we got blamed for "not accepting their offer of a friendly chat" and that is why the legal proceedings went ahead ... though you should read the correspondence on it elsewhere on the forum. But, as John wrote, all the time the BKWSO was contriving their legal case against us.

In fact, we were just working on and attempting to get them to agree on an agenda when they stopped communication dead ... and then dropped the legal papers on the website. How professional is that?

[ms orange]

.. a Dr. PhD simpleton.

Don't jump the gun - I don't have it yet. And yes, it's possible to be both. The two are not mutually exclusive... trust me!

Ms orange, why wont you discuss that (access to Murlis) and issues like it?

Because I frankly don't have the time - I quite seriously have to refocus on my research.

How can we reconcile our differences if there is no discussion?

From my experience to date on the forum, there is little genuine interest in reconciliation from the main posters.

[fluffy bunny]

Its not true tamasin, perhaps we should define what reconciliation means and to whom we are talking about. Nothing is very clear at all. Let's get down to facts and build up from there.

If you are thinking of bridge-building between us and the BKWSU, which is admirable and would benefit yourself ... how far are you or the BKWSU willing to extend or change your tunes?

I would not want you to go back or go about saying, *oh, I tried to reconciliation but they were not interested and they swore at me" because it would no more reflect the truth than what has previous been said by them. We are saying to 'yous' ... "fine, good, let's get real about all this stuff". You should consider it a good exercise, and I do not know how specific your PhD on the BKs is going to be ... care to tell us ... but any future academia on them is going to find it very hard to ignore us.

I have come to think that in any human interchange, especially institutional, there is this sub-text of "who is the top doggie" and the BK credo is all about, "they are the top doggie". So when any impertinents like us, or Ph.D Virendra Dev Dixit before us, comes along and starts asking awkward questions, they play the final act of control ... to withdraw and lock the doors. (See Lawrence Babb's Kindergarten comments about the infantilisation of students within the so-called Spiritual University by the center-in-charges and SS).

[ms orange]

ex-l: perhaps we should define what reconciliation means... and build up from there.

Great. Let's talk about reconciliation. But who is reconciling? To understand properly I need you to explain who you mean when you talk about Them, the BKWSU? Who are They? When you speak of the BKWSU do you mean London? Do you mean India? Do you mean the three Dadi's who are currently at the helm?

Who knows if reconciliation is ever possible as long as people keep picking the scabs on old wounds. And I don't mean to belittle anyone's experience. Not at all. I haven't had experiences as tough as some, but I certainly have had some and I basically had to stop looking at blaming other people, face my own past, my own actions and my own feelings and get down to healing and mending. I had to stop expecting anyone else to change in the way and form that I wanted. For my reconciliation to happen, I went to the person who I felt caused the pain and told them. We talked about it. There was a lot they did not accept, which I just had to deal with. Everyone accepts things at their own time. And basically I just had to pull my finger out and get living. Which I did. And I am pleased that I did. I never want anything to have a hold over my mind and heart like that again.

Although you think I am a "vanilla BK" ... despite my extremely cute avatar (!)... I am neither innocent nor young, and am fairly experienced.

If you are thinking of bridge-building between us and the BKWSU, which is admirable and would benefit yourself ... how far are you or the BKWSU willing to extend or change your tunes?

I am not actually sure how it would benefit me, as you suggest. Also as far as I know I haven't caused anyone any undue pain on behalf of the instititution, so in that sense I don't feel the need to build bridges. I feel we're on the same land mass, just not speaking with each other properly. And when you ask the question ... "how far (am I) or the BKWSU willing to extend of change (our) tunes" I just don't know how to respond. You are addressing me personally, so please tell me what I have done to hurt you and how you wish me to change. Either that, or keep your hurts about the BKWSU and your addresses to me separate please. As I've said before, it makes it so difficult to have any foundation to start from. And I would like to, but we need to start from common ground. From knowing each other as separate and equal individuals who are beginning a conversation.

I would not want you to go back or go about saying, *oh, I tried to reconciliation but they were not interested and they swore at me" because it would no more reflect the truth than what has previous been said by them. We are saying to 'yous' ... "fine, good, let get real about all this stuff".

I don't understand the Us and Them terms, in the way that you're using them. I understand for purposes of clarity you need to use them, but it's so much in your attitude that, again, it hampers clear and honest communication. And go back to where? And say "they were not interested and they swore at me" to whom?

You should consider it a good exercise, and I do not know how specific your PhD on the BKs is going to be ... care to tell us ...

I don't care to speak about my PhD here until the tone changes. I do not find this forum a safe and/or supportive environment at all.

I have come to think that in any human interchange, especially institutional, there is this sub-text of "who is the top doggie" they play the final act of control ... to withdraw and lock the doors...but any future academia on them is going to find it very hard to ignore us.

Again I don't know who you mean by They. Can we leave the Us and Them and just speak as you and me? If you want to speak with someone who holds a position within the organisation, then I am the wrong person. I have no 'status' as you call it, within the BKWSU so I think perhaps it would be better if you speak with someone else. And you will not be ignored in my study, don't worry about that.

See Lawrence Babb's Kindergarten comments about the infantilisation of students within the so-called Spiritual University by the center-in-charges and SS)

Yes, I've read all the previous studies - fascinating! Have you read "the Liberation of Women In And Through the Movement of the Prajapita Brahma Kumaris". That's the most recent one.

[fluffy bunny]

It just repeats the same old corporate PR re-write of the history which, for me, undercuts any credibility the student is attempting to assert. Not good enough.

The guy is a Hindu who is a little bit in love with the Brahma Kumaris because they uphold some ideal of Hindu femininity, e.g. the wonders of purity etc. It reports worthy statistics that most people do not think the Brahma Kumaris do enough practical for women rights etc, I forget the specific quote.

John Walliss got nearest to capturing the spirit and facts of the BKWSU ,and admirably, even got as far as the institutional neurosis over the PBK divide but the BKWSU has morphed again post-SML and is currently going through more changes. Lawrence Babb offers a nice snapshot of the more innocent days.

I tend to feel this is all headed off topic and a bit of a distraction from the finances, charging and licensing of The Tao of the Traveller and it would best be discussed in the other topic.

[ms orange]

I tend to feel this is all headed off topic and a bit of a distraction from the finances, charging and licensing of The Tao of the Traveller

ummmmmm ... my apologies to all the other readers for sounding like a broken record ... but ... I don't know. Please ask the producer!

[john]

Ms orange, why wont you discuss that (access to Murlis) and issues like it?

Because I frankly don't have the time - I quite seriously have to refocus on my research.

A Bk who has no time to discuss things connected with Murli is not a BK.

What are the two most important things as spoken in the Murli?

Gyan and Remembrance.

[ms orange]

Discussing access to the Murlis on a forum such as this, is quite a different thing to talking about the Murlis.

[jim freidman]

I have read with interest ... well at least to begin with ... the posts. This is my first look at this forum which I hoped would be intelligent and helpful. I have to say that most of what I've read, particularly from Xl is sadly filled with misinformation about other people. Also it seems to be mostly slanging at individuals and venting spleen. Very sad that the whole experience has left so much anger.

You add anger, bitterness, vitriol, negativity and violence of attitude too a world badly in need of the opposites of these thing.

If you feel these things so strongly why not become Buddhist or a catholic or just a good person with no affiliation ... help the sick, look after battered women ... so something to ake the world a better place rather than adding to it what you are so patently and doing now.

Also Xl with the amount of chatting and posting you do on this site, I would suggest that you have far too much spare time on your hands. That you have done little to help yourself heal from what was obviously not a good experience. Have done everything you can to keep yourself flying in ever decreasing circles of self pity, thinly disguised. That is the greatest indoor sport and you are playing for all your worth,

Go out and do some good in the world

[fluffy bunny]

ms o,

re: Murlis, we cannot discuss what we and others are refused access to. Personally, from an academic point of view, I would prefer to have the whole lot in their unedited form in order to properly study them. I think they should be available for all, equally, rather than a small elite to control. Thankfully many, outside of the influence of the BKWSU leadership, see fit to publish and share them. "You are either with us or against us" on that issue ... you refused to discuss it and so we presume standing by the leaderships decision.

Your relationship with your Father, the producer, is noted as is your wish to remained unsullied by the knowledge of the finances, share with such details, or go and find out. Excuse us if we continue making an analysis of the situation without your input as it relates to our other discussions here as we are an online community.

Jim,

Mostly, unless very sure or having references to fall back on, I ask questions looking for more information. Actually, whilst never claiming 100%, I think these posts have a very high batting average and have uncorked some incredibly unique things about the Yuyga, especially in the 'historical revision department' ... if you care to join us there to discuss the revelations. It was all new to me after 25 year plus interest ... but only recently I discovered that the bannished PBKs knew some of it too, and held the faith, although I have no connection with them. Their existence and knowledge is largely hidden and forbidden from BKs.

The 'BKWSU ethics department' is a 'work in progress' until we get copies of the BKWSU's constitution/s and procedural manuals and see how it ought to be run. Those have been requested from those that promised them within the BKWSU ... but to date, no response. They have not delivered their promises. The funniest thing there is, for all my time connected to the BKWSU, I never even knew they existed ... they should be posted on their websites and all given access to them. I never knew that I was "not a member" and had no rights, only a donor from their point of view.

My loadstars in the 'ethics department' are the Murlis (although again the BKs wont release all of those) and the Murlis scholars elsewhere by whom I am very glad for my work to be judged. Is asking for that, or making people question, misinformation?

The BrahmaKumaris, and BrahmaKumaris.Info, is "not as easy as going to your auntie's house" (regular Murli quote). I do not know your experience within the BKWSU, nor your awareness of the issues we are discussing here, but my line of investigations is generally supported by those that spent a long time inside and close to the system.

Please be specific about what you mean ... but if it is off this Taoist topic, then please do so elsewhere. As time allows, I will address your concerns. I will go on to explain the context and significance for all this.

[jim freidman]

You did not 'hear' what I said in my posting any more than you did other postings. Most of your posts are attacks on individuals and it seems from what I read that when your questions are replied to, you drop them instantly and find something else . Obviously you have no intention of ever admitting that you do anything in a slanted, biased and very unintelligent way. I have read many of your posts now and you try to dig into peoples personal lives and you say things that have little basis for reality and truth save your own distorted assumptions.

I will not bother to 'chat' with you on other places. It is a total waste of time to argue with a closed and biased mind and I don't want to give you any more platforms for your vitriolic postings.

Obviously this consumes you and makes up a great part of your life. If you simply cannot stop adding dreck and awfulness and pettiness to a world already overburdened with it - if you absolutely cannot go find another way to live - one that adds lightness to the world and helps humanity, then may I suggest that you need serious psychological help.

This promised to be a good and helpful site, but instead of letting people say what they need to and talk to each other and heal, you have dragged it down to the level of personal attacks.
The site is 'Yours' and the worse for it.

I will find out what I need to know in a more intelligent arena.