Female circumcision is mostly a Moslem thing and not an Indian/Hindu things at all. Historically, both forms of
circumcision appear to be intent on
reducing sexual pleasure and thereby inducing social controls (see link). If anyone is interested in taking up the issue either personally or within the BKWSU (...
ha-ha-ha), try; Ornella Moscucci, "Clitordectomy, Circumcision, and the Politics of Sexual Pleasure in Mid-Victorian Britain". Indiana University Press, Bloomington and Indianapolis, 1996 as a starter. Otherwise, I agree, it is headed 'off forum'.
Perhaps a link rather than multiple graphic videos might have been enough and I have to severely caution against the 'guilt tripping' element of the response to Tom's post, i.e. the suggestion that to freely question the effectiveness of such posts is on a par with ignoring the Jewish Holocaust ... this is just insulting "
Reductio ad Hitlerum". Tete, may be your history of being banned has more to do with your modus operandi, or simple refusal to listen to the hints others are giving you, rather than a condemnation of the worthy issues you support.
I cannot remember the "kevin" issue but I do remember he also got banned from the official BKWSU discussion forum.
bansy wrote:Regarding this thread's content, the BKWSU is founded on aspects of women's position is society. Some of the posts in this thread could reflect some of the issues. Women often do not speak out on these issues openly.
I think, given the endemic whitewash and historical revision, one really needs to question whether "women's position is society" was really Lekhraj Kirpalani's founding purpose, whether his (or the incognito holy ghost of the first 20 years) sub-conscious "Krishna Fantasy" (of being God surrounded by gopis) was primary; whether it was just incidental that only women and children were free during the day and turned up to his satsangs or that his satsangs were not that deep and the psychism only worked on the more open and vulnerable. I only mention the former because of what his legal advocate mentioned of them, i.e. (approx) "good enough for uneducated Amil women".
Personally, I think the "women up front" policy - and specifically using Om Radhe as a figure head - was largely just a good strategy developed during the "Anti-Party" episode. It is obvious from 'Is this Justice" and the that Om Radhe was not actually writing it ... a male was. And these days one has to wonder who runs the BKWSU/World Renewal Trust; the women figureheads or the male accountant, secretary etc. I do not think that the Brahma Kumaris belong amongst "The Women's Movement" and only piggyback upon it as they do anything else that serves THEIR needs.
One relevance to this topic that I can think of are statistics taken from research within V.S. Lalrinawma's, "The Liberation of Women in and through the Movement of the Prajapita Brahma Kumaris" (ISPCK, Cambridge Press, Delhi. ISBN 81-7214-771-6) that state, even despite its fairly flattering and sycophantic tone, that the majority of BK followers thought that the Brahma-kumaris did NOT do enough for women, or women's rights, on a
practical level. I cant remember the figures, perhaps someone can dig it out.
I would agree with this as I think an even bigger proportion of non-BKs would. I would guess that most non-BKs wonder what the heck the Brahma-kumaris ARE doing ... except for running a typical guru racket promoting themselves, collecting wealth and real estate whilst keeping up a minimal worthy looking front. For me, the over-riding principle in the BKWSU is NOT 'women's rights' but 'caste ascendency' ('social climbing' by a primarily lower merchant class) in which some women take on dominant male roles AND in some cases exhibit negative male tendencies.
In my opinion, the BKWSU avoid any strong controversies that might impact on their social climbing, i.e. not rocking the patriarchal boat too much and not, as a rule, concerning themselves with social work. Not rocking the patriarchal boat because they want to be the captain of it. To an extent, they have the right to do so as much as, say, a business person "has the right" to ignore both religion and social work just to focus on making money.
Having said all that. I think Tom's response was a fair signal from the social barometer, just as the "ex-l damaging the forum" topic was, that this mode was going too far 'off forum' and I agree that unless there is some 'lane discipline' this forum could become swamped and irrelevant. As Tom states, there are many other far more productive arenas to engage in the discussion of such issues ... especially practically in direct communication with the religions and societies involved in it. So what if it is "voiced" here ... better to spend that energy direct on the perpetrators themselves.
The same too is true of "BKWSU beating". Rather than "be seen to post here", it would be better for all to write some letters, send them out and become actively involved ... or even to offer a better alternative.
I think it is untrue to suggest that forum members, or even active BKs, are insensitive about such issues. One needs to guard about becoming over-emotional about them. To do so suggests that the issues are a mask to more pressing personal issues that are NOT being discussed, e.g. related personal pains. It may not be the issues but the over-emotional or over-expressive nature of the argument that puts other off and anyone running a forum has to put aside the personal, however worthy, for the overview of what the forum is about. I flagged that two video showed girls/young women crying ... I have to ask if there is a related personal pain you want to discuss here?
There is the question of "appropriateness", e.g. when and where it is most effective to raise issues and how much of it is part of the "look at me I am good" currency typical in 'bleeding heart' liberalism. If the forum is being used in attempt to recruit others for other causes, then I think it is inappropriate. If the forum is being used in an attempt to effect BKs and the BKWSU to change positively, then may be is it appropriate.
I do not think multiple graphic videos an effective way of doing it. I think they just tend to overload, fuse and then switch individuals off. (As I can with my stuff).
