Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

[Sach_Khand]

For the kind information of the above Member I would like to state that I do not have free access to internet. I work for my livelihood and pay for internet from my hard earned money (which of course belongs to ShivBaba, I am just instrumental).

Do you mean you go to internet centre for surfing the forum? Giving Rs. 15/hr each time? I would not have written about money if I had internet facility at my home or office (but I do not work and no way of going to office)

As regards the rest of the comments made by him, I can only say that he can continue to defame Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit, PBKs and AK as long as he is allowed to be Member of this forum by its Admins. I have no objection.

What does this member mean by "as long as he is allowed to be Member of this forum by its Admins."
I hope nivi understands why I am getting worse in replying Arjun. Vicious feelings stored within are more dangerous than the outburst of emotions some times. And sugar coated Vicious pills of Arjun hurt me (not very deep though).
And what right does Arjun has to order me to defame Virendra Dev Dixit, PBKs and AK? Does questioning someone or something equals defaming? I would better do such defaming than being a hypocrite.

I think the so called PBKs need to decide whether I am allowed to question Virendra Dev Dixit, PBKs and AK in this section or not? Or whether questioning is actually allowed or not in this forum? If the so called PBKs are getting very much upset by my replies, then anyone please write once. And I will surely stop posting in this section or totally in this forum.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[arjun]

What does this member mean by "as long as he is allowed to be Member of this forum by its Admins."

I have no objection to whatever the above member or shivsena Bhai or for that matter anyone writes on this forum. But I wrote the above sentence only to highlight the double standards of the Admin who on the one hand bans PBKs like Andrey and on the other hand remains mum towards members like sachkhand who does not follow any code of conduct. And the wonderful thing is that the Admin repeats the same mistakes for which Andrey was banned, like repeating his posts despite being requested not to do so. And I am sure when I point out this 'bitter' truth the Admin would call this a trivial issue.

[Sach_Khand]

I have no objection to whatever the above member or shivsena Bhai or for that matter anyone writes on this forum. But I wrote the above sentence only to highlight the double standards of the Admin who on the one hand bans PBKs like Andrey and on the other hand remains mum towards members like sachkhand who does not follow any code of conduct.

I do follow code of conduct.
But it is different from Arjun and people like him. They have double standards within themselves. They write one thing and have another thing in their hearts. And I try my best to write what I feel with minimum abusive words. I feel this more important than being a hypocrite.

Andrey and I have nothing to do with each other. Admin and the moderators have to decide regarding the banning issue.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

[shivsena]

Dear roy Bhai.

I just read a very revealing trance message(avaykt sandesh) dated 16-1-02.

"Bacche bap-Dada ka part toh gupt-hi-gupt ho rahaa hai.....Ab avaykt part ko toh koto mein koi, aur koi mein bhi koi, hi jaan-pehchan sakta hai."
[meaning: ''Child, BapDada's part is very secretly played(incognito)...Now avaykt part can be recognised only by one in a crore(10 million)'' ]

The above trance message clearly mentions that the avaykt part is being played incognito and will be recognised correctly only by 108 souls, who will know that avaykt brahma is Maa-jagdamba(no. 1 shivshakti combined) only and not DL brahma (as is commonly believed by BKs-PBKs ie 9,16,000 souls).

The above point also reveals a hidden fact that whatever the BKs and PBKs preach will be proved wrong in the end. [Murli point: "jhooti-kaya...jhooti Maya...jhoota sab sansar."]

shivsena.

[Roy]

''Child, BapDada's part is very secretly played(incognito)...Now avaykt part can be recognised only by one in a crore(10 million)''

Dear Shivsena Bhai

I respect your interpretation of this most interesting point; but my belief is that the Avyakt or subtle part of BapDada, is being played via the role of Shankar. Shiv, Krishna and Ram, all three together in one(Shankar role). Imo, the Avyakt reference, is about the subtle consciousness created by the churning of advanced knowledge; rather than being about an angel floating somewhere in the sky. Everything has to be played out in the practical(here on earth) Bhai; incognito does not necessarily mean, non-physical in nature. It is about the lack of recognition of most souls in the world, of the incognito(subtle but practical) part being played out in Kampil, by ShivBaba at this time in the drama. Only when this subtle Avyakt role is complete, will Nirakar(complete incorporeal stage) ShivBaba(or Shiv Shankar), be revealed to the Brahmin family, and then the whole world. But as always; the part being played out, through the physical costume of Ram(Baba Dixit).

N.B. Father Shiv is always nirakar(incorporeal) of course; whether He is in a body(Sakar) or not. But imo, subtle BapDada, is referring to the churning efforts of Ram(Bap-Baba Dixit) and Krishna(Dada-Brahma Baba) of advanced knowledge; that will eventually lead to both achieving the nirakar(incorporeal stage)... and only then can Shiv Shankar be revealed to the wider world(the end of the incognito part).

What does Shankar do? His role is so wonderful that you will not be able to believe it." [Mu 14.05.75]

"You children know that the one whose memorial is built would definitely have come on this earth at the Confluence Age." [Mu 05.09.05]

Roy

[shivsena]

I respect your interpretation of this most interesting point; but my belief is that the Avyakt or subtle part of BapDada, is being played via the role of Shankar. Shiv, Krishna and Ram, all three together in one(Shankar role).Roy

Dear roy Bhai.

Can you please give any Murli point to support the AK theory that there are 3 souls in one body because Murlis and Vanis say that avaykt BapDada is a combination of two souls only.

Also can you give any Murlis which points out to the entry of shiv+Krishna in Ram(supposed to be baba dixit) after 1969.

shivsena.

[arjun]

Can you please give any Murli point to support the AK theory that there are 3 souls in one body because Murlis and Vanis say that avaykt BapDada is a combination of two souls only.

The word BapDada itself is a proof. Baap refers to the incorporeal Father (Shiv) and corporeal Father (Prajapita/Ram) and Dada refers to the elder brother (the soul of Krishna or Dada Lekhraj)

By the way do you have any Murli proof which says that Shivshakti or ShivBaba refers to Shiv + Om Radhey Mama's subtle body?

Also can you give any Murlis which points out to the entry of Shiv+Krishna in Ram(supposed to be Baba dixit) after 1969.

It has been mentioned in Avyakt Vanis from 1970s that the corporeal support of BapDada is still available (vyakt me ab bhi sahara hai). So, where else is that corporeal support available?

[shivsena]

By the way do you have any Murli proof which says that Shivshakti or ShivBaba refers to Shiv + Om Radhey Mama's subtle body?

Avaykt Vanis clearly say that ''aakar mein nirakaar ko Yaad karo'' and imo, DL is not aakar brahma but it is Mama Saraswati who is aakari farishta stage and so i remember no. 1 shivshakti combined.
No avaykt Vani has ever said the ''Sakar mein nirakaar ko Yaad karo''....if the Ak way of remembering ShivBaba was the truth, then DL (who is supposed to be in VD) would have mentioned it in Vanis very often.

[arjun]

Avaykt Vanis clearly say that ''aakar mein nirakaar ko Yaad karo'' and imo, DL is not aakar Brahma but it is Mama Saraswati who is aakari farishta stage and so i remember no. 1 shivshakti combined.

Please quote the exact words. And even if such words exist in Avyakt Vanis, it refers to the personality who is in an Akaari (subtle) stage rather than someone who has left his/her body to assume a subtle body like Om Radhey Mama. A person who achieves Akari stage while being in a physical body is greater than someone who is in a subtle body. Even ghosts and devils have a subtle body. Can we remember God through their Akari body?

Moreover, you have quoted a vague sentence. Has it specifically been mentioned in any Avyakt Vani that Om Radhey Mama is the no.1 soul?

No avaykt Vani has ever said the ''Sakar mein nirakaar ko Yaad karo''....if the Ak way of remembering ShivBaba was the truth, then DL (who is supposed to be in VD) would have mentioned it in Vanis very often.

Dada Lekhraj has underlined the importance of Sakar many times in the Avyakt Vanis. And such versions have already been quoted on this forum. You are very well aware of those points but just want to turn a blind eye to them. It is your choice.
OGS,
Arjun

[pbkindiana]

shivsena wrote:
if the Ak way of remembering ShivBaba was the truth, then DL (who is supposed to be in VD) would have mentioned it in Vanis very often.

It is always mentioned in AV to follow Father Brahma but it has never been mentioned to follow Om Radhey or Mama Saraswati.

indie.

[shivshakti]

If it is that obvious why would it be said koto me koi koto me koi pehchane.

Shivshakti

[Roy]

Can you please give any Murli point to support the AK theory that there are 3 souls in one body because Murlis and Vanis say that avaykt BapDada is a combination of two souls only.

Dear Shivsena Bhai

I think the following points, go some way to proving that BapDada includes Baba Dixit, so that three souls are actually playing the role of BapDada, and via the body of Shankar.

"Both Baap(Father) and Dada(elder brother) are combined. Twins are born, isn’t it? Both their roles are combined. [15.6.72]

Shankar is also a deity. They have then combined Shiva and Shankar. Now Father says, “I have entered into this body.” Therefore, you say Baap-Dada, but they say Shiv-Shankar. They don't say Shankar-Shiv. They say Shiv-Shankar. [11-2-75]

Father Shiv(Bap) was never born; but but both Ram(Bap-Baba Dixit) and Krishna(Dada-Brahma Baba) are(spiritually) of course! Twins, implys the closeness of their bond, that continues even after Brahma Baba(Dada) leaves his body in 1969; in the body of Shankar(Baba Dixit).

Roy

[pbkindiana]

shivshakti wrote:
If it is that obvious why would it be said koto me koi koto me koi pehchane.

It will be kind of you to translate the underlined phrase.

indie.

[shivshakti]

Koto me koi aur koi me koi is a metafor to indicate that it is not very easy to recognize baap. koto me koi is 108 and aur koi me koi is 8.
Shivshakti

[pbkindiana]

shivshakti wrote:
Koto me koi aur koi me koi is a metafor to indicate that it is not very easy to recognize baap. koto me koi is 108 and aur koi me koi is 8.

Then why is it you are wasting time chasing after Om Radhey's soul when it is stated in SM that ShivBaba is Father's role only.

Also it is stated in SM that "a mother has no part in ShivBaba's role."

Moreover as you have stated the English translation of "it is not very easy to recognize Baap" --- as Father's role is in an ordinary form only and He will only be revealed in the end for the rosary to be formed. If ShivBaba is revealed in the beginning or in the middle, then everyone will start getting close to Him earlier and the rosary would not be formed.

indie.