Sakar Murli Points for churning

[arjun]

Murli pt.no.134 (ShivBaba's biography)

• "Parampita Parmatma kee biography ko tum jaantey ho. Jo ShivBaba kee biography ko nahee jaantey vah haath uthaao. Sab jaantey hain Parmatma kee jeevan kahani. So bhi ek janma kee nahee. ShivBaba ke kitney janmon kee biography hai? Tumko maaloom hai? Tum jaantey ho ShivBaba ka is drama may kya part hai. Aadi say ant tak unko aur unki biography ko jaantey ho." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 06.06.07, pg 1)

• “You know the biography of the Supreme Father Supreme Soul. Those who do not know the biography of ShivBaba – raise your hands. Everyone knows the life-story of the Supreme Soul. That too, not just of one birth. The biography of ShivBaba’s how many births is available? Do you know? You know as to what is the part of ShivBaba in this drama. You know Him and His biography from the beginning to the end.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 06.06.07, pg 1 published by the BKs)

- The BKs say that ShivBaba is beyond birth and death. But Baba is telling us : you know the biography of the Supreme Father Supreme Soul And He is asking: the biography of ShivBaba’s how many births is available? Well, the biography of only that soul will be available, which enters the cycle of birth and death. So, which ShivBaba’s biography of many births is Baba taking about in the above Murli? Is He not talking about His appointed Chariot in the Confluence Age?

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Some clarifications given in Post No. 33- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 7&start=30

[arjun]

Murli pt.no.135 (use of the word Prajapita)

• "Bachchey bhi jaantey hain ham niraakaar Baap ke bachchey hain, unkay sammukh baithey hain. Prajapita Brahmakumar-Kumariyan hain. Prajapita akshar na daalney say manushya moonjhtey hain. Samajhtey hain Brahma toh sookshmavatanvasi devtaa hai. Vah fir yahaan kahaan say aaya? Kahtey hain Brahma devtaay namah, Shankar devtaay namah, fir guru bhi kahtey Guru Brahma, Guru Vishnu. Ab Vishnu va Shankar toh Guru hain nahee. Samajhtey hain Shankar, Parvati ko katha sunaatey hain toh guru thahraa. Guru Vishnu bhi nahee hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 07.06.07, pg 1)

• “Even the children know that we are the children of the incorporeal Father; we are sitting in front of Him. We are Prajapita Brahmakumar-Kumaris. People get confused if the word Prajapita is not used. They think that Brahma is a Subtle Region dweller deity. How can he come here? They say Brahma devtaay namah (I bow to Brahma the deity), Shankar devtaay namah (I bow to Shankar, the deity). Then they also call them Guru – Guru Brahma, Guru Vishnu. Well Vishnu or Shankar is not a Guru. They think Shankar narrates a story to Parvati. So he happens to be a Guru. Even Vishnu is not a Guru.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 07.06.07, pg 1 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that we are Prajapita Brahmakumar (PBKs). But we call ourselves just BKs. So, should we not prefix PBKs to our names?
- Baba is telling that People get confused if the word Prajapita is not used. They think that Brahma is a Subtle Region dweller deity. But the word ‘Prajapita’ is not used in most of the publicity material of BKs and Brahma is considered to be a Subtle Region dweller deity. Is it correct to do so as per the above Murli?

[arjun]

Murli pt.no.136 (Shrimat through corporeal)

• "Abhi tum bachchon ko Shrimat par chalnaa hai. Na chalney say Yaad rakhnaa ki oonch pad kabhi paa nahee sakengey. Shrimat bhi jaroor Sakar dwara hee leni padey. Prernaa say toh mil nahee saktee. Kayiyon ko toh ghamand aa jaata hai ki ham toh ShivBaba kee prernaa say letey hain. Agar prernaa kee baat ho toh Bhakti marg may bhi kyon nahee prernaa detey thay ki manmanaabhav. Yahaan toh Sakar may aakar samjhana padtaa hai. Sakar bigar mat bhi kaisey dey saktey. Bahut bachchey Baap say roothkar kahtey hain ham toh ShivBaba ke hain. Tum jaantey ho ShivBaba Brahma dwara hamko Brahman banaatey hain. Pehley bachchey bantey hain na, fir samajh miltee hai ki hamko daadey ka varsa mil raha hai in dwara. Dada (ShivBaba) hee Brahma dwara hamko apnaa banaatey hain. Shiksha detey hain." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 08.08.07, pg 2)

• “Now you children have to follow the Shrimat. If you do not follow, then remember that you will never be able to achieve a high post. The Shrimat has to be obtained only through the corporeal (medium). It cannot be obtained through inspiration. Many (children) develop the ego that we obtain (Shrimat) through ShivBaba’s inspiration. If it is a matter of inspiration, then why did He not give the inspiration in the path of worship to become manmanaabhav ( become merged in my mind)? Here He has to come in corporeal form to explain. How can He give His direction too without the corporeal (medium). Many children become displeased with the Father and say , ‘we belong to ShivBaba’. You know that ShivBaba makes us Brahmins through Brahma. First we become the children, don’t we? Then we get the power to understand that we are getting the inheritance of the grandfather (Dada) through this one. Dada (ShivBaba) Himself makes us His child through Brahma. He gives us teachings.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 08.08.07, pg 2 published by BKs)

- If the Brahmin children are asked , ‘How do you obtain Shrimat after Brahma Baba left his body in 1969?’ Then they say that they obtain Shrimat either by remembering the incorporeal ShivBaba or from the nimit brothers and sisters. But Baba is saying, “Here He has to come in the corporeal form to explain. How can He give His direction without the corporeal (medium).” Then where is ShivBaba in the corporeal form?

[arjun]

Murli pt.no.137 (we will see heaven practically)

• "Jo divya drishti say dikhaya tha, vah sab in aankhon say dekhengey. Vishnu ka saakshaatkaar kiya hai. Vahaan bhi practical jaayengey. Fir saakshaatkaar hona band ho jata hai. Satyug Treta may na saakshaatkaar, na Bhakti. Fir Bhakti marg say yah sab baatein shuru hoti hain. Kitnee achchi-achchi baatein Baba samjhaatey hain. Jo fir bachchon ko auron ko samjhaani hain." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 19.11.07, pg 4)

• “Whatever was shown through visions will be seen through these eyes. We have had visions of Vishnu. We will also go there in practical. Then visions will cease to happen. In the Golden Age and Silver Age there is neither vision nor Bhakti. All these things start again from the path of worship. Baba explains such nice things which children have to then explain to others.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 19.11.07, pg 4 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that we will see through these eyes whatever was shown through visions. We will go to heaven in practical. But BKs say that we have to make efforts in this birth and we will obtain the inheritance of heaven in the next birth. Is it correct to think like this?

[arjun]

Murli pt.no.138 (one cannot know when Shiv enters)

• "Shivraatri kahtey hain parantu Shiv ke badley Krishna ka naam kah diya hai ki Krishna ka janma raat ko hua. Hai ShivBaba kee baat. ShivBaba kee tithi taareekh vela ka kuchch bhi pataa nahee ki kis samay aaya. Krishna kee vela hai. Vah punarjanma may aaney vala hai. ShivBaba toh jhat aakar parichay deney lag padtey hain. Kuchch samay toh pataa hee nahee padaa ki yah kaun aaya hai? Kaun bol rahey hain? Baad may maaloom padaa ki yah toh ShivBaba gyaan ka saagar hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 23.11.07, pg 3)

• “People say ‘Shivraatri’ but instead of Shiv they have mentioned the name of Krishna that Krishna was born in the night. (Actually) it is about ShivBaba. We do not know anything about the date and time of ShivBaba as to when He came. There is time (mentioned) for Krishna. He takes rebirth. ShivBaba comes and starts giving introduction at once. For some time it was not known as to who is it that has come. Who is speaking? It was known later that it is ShivBaba, the Ocean of Knowledge.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 23.11.07, pg 3 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that we cannot know anything about the date and time of ShivBaba as to when He came. But BKs celebrate Shivratri as Shivjayanti thinking that ShivBaba entered Dada Lekhraj (Brahma Baba) on that day.
- Apart from this BKs fix the date of entry of Shiv in Gulzar Dadiji some months in advance. But Baba is telling that we cannot know about the entry of ShivBaba as to when He comes.

[arjun]

Murli pt.no.139 (Prajapita and Subtle Region dweller Brahma)

* "Parmatma ke liye hee gaayan hai – Hey patit-paavan, aatey bhi hain patit duniya aur patit shareeer may. Patit shareeer ka naam hai Prajapita Brahma. Ismay pravesh kar kahtey hain mai bahut janmon kay anth vaaley saadhaaran manushya tan may pravesh kartaa hoon. Sookshmavatanvaasi sampoorna Brahma may nahee aatey hain. Khud kahtey hain inkay bahut janmon ke anth ke janma may aata hoon. Bahut janma letey hee hain Raadhey-Krishna. Unkay bahut janmon kay anth ka janma saadhaaran hai. Aisey toh kahtey nahee hain ki mai paavan shareeer may pravesh kartaa hoon. Bhagwaanuwaach mai saadhaaran tan may aata hoon. Ab Bhagwaan jaroor aakarke is saadhaaran tan dwara aatmaon ko baith samjhaatey hain ki mai Parampita Parmatma hoon. Mai Krishna kee aatma nahee hoon, na Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar kee aatma hoon. Mai Parampita Parmatma hoon, jisko Shiv Parmaatmaay namah kahaa jaataa hai. Mai ismay aaya hoon. Mai sookshmavatan vasi Brahma may pravesh nahee kartaa hoon. Mujhey toh yahaan patiton ko paavan banana hai. Merey dwara hee vah sookshmavatan vasi Brahma paavan banaa hai, isliye unko sookshma may dikhaya hai.....Bhagwaan oonch tey oonch niraakaar ShivBaba hai. Varsa deney ke liye jaroor Brahma tan may aayega. Yah Prajapita Brahma hai, sookshmavatanvaasi Brahma ko Prajapita nahee kahengey. Vahaan thodey hee praja rachengey. Ham Brahmakumar kumariyaan saakaar may hain toh Prajapita Brahma bhi saakaar may hain. Yah raaz aakar samjho. Ham is Dada ko Bhagwaan nahee kahtey. ... Yahaan koi paavan hai nahee. Trimurti Shiv ke badley Trimurti Brahma kah diya hai. Parantu Trimurti Brahma ka koi arth nahee hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 24.11.07, pg 1&2)

• “It is famous only for the Supreme Soul: O purifier of the sinful ones. He even comes in a sinful world and a sinful body. The name of the sinful body is Prajapita Brahma. He enters in this one and says: I enter in an ordinary human body of the last one of many births. He does not come in the complete Brahma who is a Subtle Region dweller. He Himself says: I come in the last one of their many births. It is Radha and Krishna who take many births. The last one of their many births is ordinary. He does not say – I enter in a pure body. God said: I enter in an ordinary body. Well, God certainly comes and explains to the souls through this ordinary body: I am the Supreme Father Supreme Soul. I am not the soul of Krishna, nor am I the soul of Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar. I am the Supreme Father Supreme Soul, the one who is called ‘Shiv Parmaatmaay namah”. I have come in this one. I don’t enter in the Subtle Region dweller Brahma. I have to come and purify the sinful ones here. It is through me that the Subtle Region dweller Brahma has become pure. This is why he has been shown in a subtle form........The highest on high incorporeal ShivBaba is God. In order to give the inheritance He will certainly come in the body of Brahma. This is Prajapita Brahma; the Subtle Region dweller Brahma will not be called Prajapita. The subjects (praja) will not be created there? We Brahmakumar-kumaris are in corporeal form; so Prajapita Brahma is also in corporeal form. Come and understand this secret. We do not call this Dada God. ...... Nobody is pure here. Instead of Trimurti Shiv they have mentioned Trimurti Brahma. But there is no meaning of Trimurti Brahma.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 24.11.07, pg 1&2 published by BKs)

- BKs say that Shiv enters in the Subtle Region dweller Brahma and together they enter in Gulzar Dadi to narrate the Avyakt Vanis. But Baba is telling: I do not enter in the Subtle Region dweller Brahma. And He is also telling that we Brahmakumar-kumaris are in a corporeal form; so Prajapita is also in a corporeal form. Does it not mean that ShivBaba is playing a part through Prajapita Brahma in this world itself?

[arjun]

Murli pt.no.140 (no need to keep pictures)

• "Baap kahtey hain tumko koi bhi chitra rakhney kee darkaar nahee. Kyaa tum ShivBaba ko nahee jaantey jo chitra rakhtey ho? Kya chitra rakhney say Yaad kar saktey ho? Baba jeeta hai fir bachchey chitra kyon rakhengey? Baap tumko gyaan dey raha hai fir chitra kya karengey? Boodhey hain Yaad bhool jaati hai isliye chitra diya jaataa hai. Baaki aur koi bhi dehdhaari ko Yaad kartey rahengey toh anth samay vahee Yaad aayega. Kuch na kuch rag hai toh vah tumhaarey peechey padega. Fir bhaley kitney bhi ShivBaba ke chitra rakho. Agar rag aur taraf hogi toh vah Yaad jaroor aayega. Isliye Baap kahtey hain bachchey poora nashtomoha ho jaao." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 26.12.07, pg 3&4)


• “The Father says : there is no need for you to keep any pictures. Don’t you know ShivBaba, that you keep (His) pictures? Can you remember (Him) by keeping (His) pictures? When Baba is alive, why will children keep pictures? The Father is giving you knowledge, then what will you do with pictures? There are aged ones; they forget to remember (Baba), this is why picture is given. But if you keep remembering any other bodily being, then in the end just his thoughts will come to your mind. If there is attachment to some extent or the other, then he will chase you. Then no matter how many pictures of ShivBaba you keep if you have attachment for someone else, he will certainly come to your mind. This is why the Father says : Children, become completely victorious over attachment.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 26.12.07, pg 3&4 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that there is no need for you to keep any picture. He is also telling that when Baba is alive, then why will children keep pictures? The Father is giving you knowledge, then what will you do with pictures? But BKs keep the pictures of Brahma Baba, Mama, Dadis and other BKs at Madhuban, Centers and their respective homes. Does it not mean that we still have attachment for these bodily beings? Does it not mean that we do not consider Baba to be alive? If we accept that Baba is still giving us knowledge, then where is the need to keep the picture of any bodily being?

[arjun]

Murli pt.no.141 (3 personalities come with the Father)

• "Niraakaar Baap jaroor Paramdhaam may rahtey hongey. Jaisey tum bhi sab merey saath rahtey ho. Pehley jab mai aataa hoon toh merey saath Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar hotey hain. Manushya srishti toh pehley say hee hai fir vah kaisey paltaa khaati hai, repeat kaisey hoti hai. Pehley pehley jaroor sookshmavatan rachnaa padey fir sthoolvatan may aana padey kyonki manushya jo devtaa thay, vah ab Shudra baney hain. Unhon ko fir Brahman say devtaa banaanaa padey." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 08.01.08, pg 1)

• “The incorporeal Father must be certainly living in the Supreme Abode just as you all live with me. First when I come, Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar are with me. The human world is already in existence; then how does it turn, how does it repeat? First of all the Subtle Region would have to be created; then one has to come to the corporeal world because human beings, who were deities have now become shudras. They have to be then transformed from Brahmins to deities.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 08.01.08, pg 1 published by BKs)

- BKs say that Shankar’s part is played only in the Subtle Region and not in corporeal world. But Baba is telling that first when I come, I am accompanied by Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar. So, then which are the souls that play the part of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar in the Brahmin family and with which names and forms and where are they playing their parts?

[arjun]

Murli pt.no.142 (crowd is not the norm here)

• "Tum bachchey jaantey ho Baba fir say aaaya hua hai. Kalpa pehley bhi isee samay aaya tha jabki angrezon ka raajya tha. Jinho say Congress nay raajya liya fir Pakistan hua. Yah Kalpa pehley bhi hua tha. Gita may yah baatein nahee hain. Aakhreen samajh jaayengey ki barobar ab vahee samay hai. Koi-koi samajhtey hain ki Eeshwar aa gayaa hai. Jab Mahabhaarat laraai lagi thi toh Bhagwaan aaya tha. Kahtey theek hain, sirf naam badal diya hai. Rudra naam levein toh bhi samjhein ki theek hai. Rudra nay gyaan Yagya rachaa tha, jis say duniya kee vipdaa tali thi. Yah bhi dheerey-dheerey tumhaarey dwara pataa lag jaayega. Aisey bhi kahengey ki Krishna Bhagwaan nahee tha. Usmay abhi samay padaa hai. Nahee toh yahaan aisee bheed mach jaaye joh tum padh bhi na sako. Yahaan bheed ka kaaydaa nahee hai. Guptavesh may kaam chaltaa rahega. Ab koi badaa aadmee yahaan aaye toh kahengey inka matha kharaab hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 26.01.08, pg 1&2)

• “You know that Baba has come again. He had come in the previous cycle (Kalpa) too when there was a rule of Britishers from whom the Congress had obtained the power. Then Pakistan was created. This had happened a Kalpa ago too. These issues are not mentioned in the Gita. Ultimately they will understand that certainly it is that very time now. Some feel that God has come. God had come when the Mahabharata war was fought. They speak correctly; just the name has been changed. Even if they mention the name of Rudra it would be considered to be OK. Rudra had established this Yagya of knowledge, through which the crisis of the world was averted. This too will be known (to the world) through you gradually. They will also say that Krishna was not God. There is still time for that now. Otherwise such a crowd would gather here that you would not be able to even study. Crowd is not the norm here. The task would continue in an incognito way. Now if a big person comes here, he would say that these people have gone mad.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 26.01.08, pg 1&2 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that crowd is not the norm here. The task would continue in an incognito way. But when Avyakt BapDada comes at Mount Abu, a crowd of thousands of people gathers there, which includes many big personalities who do not follow knowledge. The Avyakt part being played through Gulzar Dadiji cannot be called an incognito form. So, then where is ShivBaba playing a part in an incognito form, where crowd is not the norm and where ShivBaba meets only His few children?

[arjun]

Murli pt.no.143 (all will go with the Father)

• "Tum jaantey ho ham ShivBaba ke baney hain toh yah deh ka bhaan chodnaa padey. Apney ko aatma ashareeri samajhna mehnat ka kaam hai. Isko kahaa hee jaataa hai rajyog aur gyaan. Donon akshar aatey hain. Manushya jab martey hain toh unko kahtey hain Ram-Ram kaho ya guru log apna naam dey detey hain. Guru mar jaataa toh fir unkay bachchey ko guru kar detey hain. Yahaan toh Baap jaayengey toh sabhi ko jaanaa hai. Yah mrityulok ka antim janma hai. Baba hamko amarlok may ley jaatey hain, via muktidhaam jaanaa hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 24.03.08, pg 3)

• “You know that we have become ShivBaba’s (children), so we have to leave this body consciousness. To consider ourselves a bodiless soul is a difficult task. This is called rajyog and knowledge. Both the words are used. When people are about to die they are asked to utter the name of Ram or the gurus give their name. When a guru dies, his son is made the (next) guru. Here, when the Father departs, everyone has to go. This is the last birth in the abode of death. Baba takes us to the abode of eternity. We have to go via the abode of salvation.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 24.03.08, pg 3 published by BKs)

- BKs say that with the demise of Brahma Baba in 1969, Father Shiv also left for the Supreme Abode. But in the above Murli Baba is telling that here, when the Father departs, everyone has to go. Had ShivBaba departed in 1969, everyone should have gone to the Supreme Abode along with Him. But it did not happen like that. So, does it not prove that ShivBaba is even now performing His task in this world itself?

[arjun]

Murli pt.no.144 (will have to be named Brahma)

"Aatma ka naam aatma hai, vah bhi Parampita Param Aatma hai. Param arthaat supreme, oonch te oonch. Vah janma maran rahit hai, avatar letey hain. Drama may jiska part hai unmay hee pravesh kartey hain aur uska naam Brahma rakhtey hain. Brahma naam kabhi badal nahi sakta hai. Brahma dwara hee sthaapnaa kartey hain. Toh vah Shri Krishna ke tan may thodey hee aayengey. Agar vah doosrey may aaye toh bhi unka naam Brahma rakhna padey. Manushya kahtey hain doosrey koi may kyon nahee aataa. Arey vah bhi kiskay tan may aaye? Vah aatey hee hain gyaan deney ke liye." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 27.03.08, pg 3)

• “A soul’s name is soul (aatmaa) only. He is also the Supreme Father Supreme Soul (Param aatmaa). Param means supreme, highest on high. He is beyond the cycle of birth and death. He incarnates. He enters only that person whose part is fixed in the drama and names him Brahma. The name Brahma can never change. He undertakes establishment only through Brahma. So, He will not come in the body of Shri Krishna? Even if He comes in someone else he will have to be named Brahma. People ask, ‘why doesn’t He come in anyone else? ’ Arey, in whose body will He come? He comes only to give knowledge. Day by day people will go on understanding. (Revised Sakar Murli dated 27.03.08, pg 3 published by BKs)
- Baba is telling in the above Murli that He enters only in that person whose part is fixed in the drama and names him Brahma. The name Brahma can never change. ..... Even if He comes in someone else he will have to be named Brahma. BKs say that after the demise of Brahma Baba in 1969, ShivBaba enters in Gulzar Dadiji to narrate Avyakt Vanis. But Gulzar Dadiji is not called Brahma. Is it not true that only the soul of Krishna, i.e. Brahma Baba is entering in Gulzar Dadiji to narrate the Avyakt Vanis?
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Post No. 93- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=120

[arjun]

Murli pt.no.145 (children who directed mother, Father)

• "Achchey-achchey bachchey 5-10 varsh rahkar achchey-achchey part bajaatey hain, fir haar kha letey hain. Yah hai yuddh sthal. Baap ki Yaad toh kabhi bhi nahi chodni chahiye. Yaad kam honay say badaa bhaari nuksaan ho jaataa hai. Bahut bachchon ko Maya nay jeet liya. Ekdam kachcha kha gayi. Ajgar nay jaisey hap kar liya. Tum maharathi bantey ho fir Maya giraakar ekdam hap kar leti hai. Achchey-achchey firstclass dhyaan may jaaney valley, jinkay direction par ma-baap bhi part bajaatey thay, aaj vah hain nahee. Kya hua? Koi baat may sanshay aa gaya." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 06.06.08, pg 2)

• “Nice children play nice parts for 5-10 years and then accept defeat. This is a battlefield. We should never forget the Father. We suffer a lot of loss if we remember less. Maya has gained victory over many children. She has gobbled them up raw. It is as if the python gobbled them up. You become maharathis (great warriors); then Maya makes you fall down and gobbles you up immediately. Nice first class (children) who used to go into trance, on whose directions even the mother and the Father used to play their parts don’t exist today. What happened? They had a doubt about something." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 06.06.08, pg 2 published by BKs)

- Who are the nice first class (children) mentioned by Baba in the above Murli who used to go into trance and on whose directions even the mother and the Father used to play their part?

[arjun]

Murli point No.146 (The soul of this one also listens)

• "Baap achchi reeti baith samjhaatey hain. Yah Dada bhi bhal shaastra aadi padhey huay thay parantu mujhey nahee jaantey thay. Ab inko bhi sunaata hoon, inki aatma sunti hai. Mai inkay baaju may aakar baithtaa hoon. Tumko padhaataa hoon. Yah bhi suntaa hai, inkay mukhh say hee padhaataa hoon. Tumko dehi-abhimaani banaataa hoon. Duniya may koi dehi-abhimaani hotey nahee. Tum bachchey behad ke Baap say behad sukhh ka varsa ley rahey ho, paanch hazaar varsh pehley muaafik." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 13.06.08, page 4)

• “The Father sits and explains nicely. Although this Dada had also read scriptures, etc. he did not know Me. Now I narrate to this one also; the soul of this one listens. I come and sit beside him. I teach you. This one also listens; I teach through the mouth of this one. I make you soul conscious. Nobody is soul conscious in the world. You children are obtaining the inheritance of unlimited happiness from the unlimited Father just like (you obtained) five thousand years ago.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 13.06.08, page 4 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling us ‘the soul of this one listens’ and ‘this one also listens’. It means that when incorporeal Father Shiv used to enter Brahma Baba to narrate Murlis, then Brahma Baba himself used to listen to Murlis, and in fact he used to listen first of all. But, Gulzar Dadi’s ears are unable to listen to the Avyakt Vanis. After the departure of BapDada, she has to listen to/ read the Avyakt Vani. Does it not prove that Father Shiv does not enter Gulzar Dadi and that it is only the subtle-bodied soul of Brahma who enters her?

[arjun]

Murli point No.147 (Indication of Shiv's entry)

• "Brahmanon may jab kiski soul aati hai toh unkay bhi bolney say pehchaantey hain na. Bigar bolney pehchaan kaisey ho saktee? Baat karney say maaloom padega – Barobar falaani aatmaa hai. ShivBaba bhi jab knowledge dein tab samjhein ki ShivBaba boltey hain. Gyaan yah toh dey na sakein. Yah sivaay Baap ke koi samajha na sakein." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 14.06.08, page 3)

- Jab ShivBaba Brahma Baba may pravesh kartey thay toh pataa nahee padtaa tha ki ShivBaba kab aaye aur gaye. Jab ShivBaba Brahma Baba ke dwara gyaan sunaatey thay tab samajhtey thay ki ShivBaba bol rahey hain. Jaisa ki ukta Murli may Baba kah rahey hain ki ShivBaba bhi jab knowledge dey tab samjhein ki ShivBaba boltey hain.

- Brahma Baba may Shiv kee praveshtaa ke samay unkay shareeer may koi parivartan nahee hota tha aur na hee unhay koi thakaavat mahsoos hoti thi kyonki Shiv ka toh na saakaari na aakaari shareeer hai. Lekin Gulzar Dadiji ke dwara Avyakt BapDada ka jo part chaltaa hai uskee mukhya pehchaan Gulzar Dadiji may nazar aaney vaaley shaareerik parivartan hotey hain. Gulzar Dadiji jaisey ki gum ho jaati hai. Aur Avyakt BapDada kee praveshtaa ke kaaran unhay thakaavat bhi mahsoos hoti hai.

- 1969 say ab tak prati varsh sunaai jaaney vaali Avyakt Vaniyon ki sankhya aur aakaar ko dekhein toh usmay nirantar kamee aati ja rahi hai. Aur Dadiji ka swaasthya bhi nirantar kharaab hota ja rahaa hai. Kya is say yah siddh nahee hota hai ki Gulzar Dadi may niraakaar Shiv pita ki praveshtaa nahee hoti hai, sirf sookshma shareerdhaari Brahma kee aatma kee praveshta hoti hai? Kya unhay honay vaali thakaavat ka kaaran Brahma Baba ka sookshma shareeer toh nahee?

• “When someone’s soul enters Brahmins, people recognize (that soul) by the style of his speech, don’t they? How can we recognize someone without (listening to his) speech? The manner in which he speaks indicates that this is definitely such and such soul. Even in case of ShivBaba, we can understand that ShivBaba is speaking only when He gives knowledge. This one cannot give knowledge. Nobody except the Father can explain this.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 14.06.08, page 3 published by BKs)

- When ShivBaba used to enter Brahma Baba, we could not know when ShivBaba came and departed. When ShivBaba used to narrate knowledge through Brahma Baba, we used to know that ShivBaba is speaking. Just as Baba is telling us in the above Murli that even in case of ShivBaba, we can understand that ShivBaba is speaking only when He gives knowledge.

- When Shiv used to enter Brahma Baba, there was no change in his body, he did not feel tired either. That was because Shiv neither has a corporeal body nor a subtle body. But Avyakt BapDada’s part that is played through Gulzar Dadi is recognized mainly on the basis of the physical changes that appear in Gulzar Dadi’s body. It is as if Gulzar Dadiji vanishes. And she also feels tired because of the entry of Avyakt BapDada.

- If we observe the number and volume of Avyakt Vanis that have been narrated every year from 1969 till date, we will find that they have been continuously decreasing. And Dadiji’s health is also deteriorating steadily. So, does it not prove that the incorporeal Father Shiv does not enter Gulzar Dadi and it is only the subtle-bodied soul of Brahma who enters her? Isn’t the subtle body of Brahma Baba the reason for her tiredness as well?