Unraveling the history of Lekhraj Kripalani's partner

[arjun]

Not really!
Don't the BKs claim it is the "combined form" of Shiva Baba+BB that enters Dadi Gulzar? Shiva Baba may not need an invitation, but if BB does, then would that explain the scheduled appointments?
For that matter, what if it is a totally different, probably even a non-BK, soul altogether?

T.K, I have provided a clear Murli point which proves that whenever Shiv enters, one cannot know whether He has entered in a person or not. It is only on the basis of the special knowledge (i.e. Murli) narrated through that person that people guess/understand that it is Shiv speaking through that person. But in case of Gulzar Dadiji, the programme is fixed many months in advance, which proves that Shiv does not enter in her. Well, it is upto you to accept or reject this theory.
Anyway, I quoted this Murli point not to stir a debate on this issue, but to prove the point of early Yagya history (as pointed out by fluffy-bunny) that Shiv's name cropped up many years after the commencement of the Yagya. When Shiv Himself is telling that you children cannot say when He has come, so how could the BKs of the early days of Yagya who were steeped deep in Bhakti guess that it was Shiv speaking through Dada Lekhraj or his partner (as the case may be)?

I disagree with the above translation.
IMO, the Hindi above translates to, "Here it is understood from the Murli", and not "guessed". IMHO there is a difference in the semantics of the two words.

For me it does not make much difference. You can replace guess with understood.

[T.K]

.. one cannot know whether He has entered in a person or not. It is only on the basis of the special knowledge (i.e. Murli) narrated through that person that people guess/understand that it is Shiv speaking through that person. But in case of Gulzar Dadiji, the programme is fixed many months in advance, which proves that Shiv does not enter in her. Well, it is upto you to accept or reject this theory.
.. but to prove the point of early Yagya history (as pointed out by fluffy-bunny) that Shiv's name cropped up many years after the commencement of the Yagya. When Shiv Himself is telling that you children cannot say when He has come, so how could the BKs of the early days of Yagya who were steeped deep in Bhakti guess that it was Shiv speaking through Dada Lekhraj or his partner (as the case may be)?

OK, just to be sure I follow, are the following statements true?

1. Since the actual instance of the entry of Shiva Baba in his medium is undetectable, it is not possible to make an appointment with him for his arrival.
2. Although the actual instance of the entry of Shiva Baba in his medium is undetectable, the only way to discern his presence within the medium is by the way of the special knowledge (i.e. Murli) narrated through that person.
3. If statement 2 is true: Despite hearing the special knowledge through BB's partner (since he was the 1st medium) for the 1st few years and then later through BB for some years (14 years in all) the BKs failed to realize Shiv was speaking.

If statement 3 is true, how do you think the BKs one day (sometime in the early 50s) realize it was indeed Shiva Baba speaking?
Thanks.

[arjun]

1. Since the actual instance of the entry of Shiva Baba in his medium is undetectable, it is not possible to make an appointment with him for his arrival.

Yes, it is not possible to make an appointment for His arrival. But as far as PBKs are concerned, we think that Shiv is always present in His human Chariot (Baba Virendra Dev Dixit/DL). Words spoken through him (whether as part of Murli or otherwise) are words spoken by ShivBaba only. Well, it depends on individual PBKs/ BKs (of pre-1969 period) as to how far they obey/obeyed His words or whether they take them to be the words of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit/DL.

2. Although the actual instance of the entry of Shiva Baba in his medium is undetectable, the only way to discern his presence within the medium is by the way of the special knowledge (i.e. Murli) narrated through that person.

Yes, it is only when knowledge is narrated through the mouth of the corporeal medium (Baba Virendra Dev Dixit/DL) that most children think that Murli is being spoken. But as mentioned above, all the words spoken by Shiv through the corporeal medium are Murli/Shrimat (as per Sakar Murlis).

3. If statement 2 is true: Despite hearing the special knowledge through BB's partner (since he was the 1st medium) for the 1st few years and then later through BB for some years (14 years in all) the BKs failed to realize Shiv was speaking.

The BKs may not have realized that it was actually Shiv speaking in the beginning of the Yagya (when knowledge was being narrated through BB's partner) but after Sakar Murlis started to be narrated through BB, they did realize that it was Shiv speaking through him. But even during the days of BB, many BKs used to think that most of the time it was BB speaking.

If statement 3 is true, how do you think the BKs one day (sometime in the early 50s) realize it was indeed Shiva Baba speaking?

Actually, the soul of Brahma Baba itself started the propaganda that Shiv was entering in him. There are ample proofs in the Sakar Murlis where there are statements which indicate that BB accepted that Shiv was entering in him. He used to say that when I bathe I think that ShivBaba is bathing me. Whenever I eat I think that I feed ShivBaba. And many more statements like this. Such repeated statements led the BKs to believe that Shiv was entering in BB.

OGS,
Arjun

[T.K]

The BKs may not have realized that it was actually Shiv speaking in the beginning of the Yagya (when knowledge was being narrated through BB's partner) but after Sakar Murlis started to be narrated through BB, they did realize that it was Shiv speaking through him.
Actually, the soul of Brahma Baba itself started the propaganda that Shiv was entering in him.

So, when BB told the rest of the BKs that Shiv was entering him, that is when the BKs realized the fact.
Clearly PBKs accept that it was indeed Shiv speaking through BB at the time BB claimed it to be so.

However, now when BB is no more, PBKs claim that it is BB who enters Dadi Gulzar, but disbelieve BB when he claims it is Shiv who is speaking through Dadi Gulzar.

Why do PBKs believe what BB said before Jan 18 1969 but not after that date?

[fluffy bunny]

So, when BB told the rest of the BKs that Shiv was entering him, that is when the BKs realized the fact.

If you are an academic, and researching this area seriously, could you discover from the BKWSU how and when Lekhraj Kripalani ... or whoever it was ... told the community for the first time, how they reacted, and how they decided to handle the revelation?

It would seem to be possible the most important moment in the movements' histories and yet, to date, it is notably undocumented.

From a PBK point of view, was it someone else ... again ... who told Lekhraj Kirpalani he was not God, as he and they all thought or did the other medium tell Lekhraj Kirpalani right at the beginning ... but it took 14 plus years for him to finally understand?

[ANU]

I kindly ask anybody who can provide me any proof that any of the PBKs predictions till now has come true, to send them here:
1998 the end of giving inheritance to the world
2007 reunion of BK and PBK
2008 Jagadamba coming back to PBKs

not to mention about dozens of others.

Harsh criticism that PBKs have pointed at BKs for decades becomes an arrow directed to themselves.