Avyakt Bap-Dada Season 2012-13

[arjun]

there is a saying in kannada, as you will be knowing - ........
another one

Om Shanti and thanks for the kind lecture. :cool:

[mbbhat]

I just saw the video (even though not with full attention, but gave importance to 29, 39 and 49 minutes as claimed by arjun soul) , and then edited my posts there itself.

I still find no facts to prove that BapDada left at 29th minute, etc, etc.

OK- I have no problem. It is his views , and what i wrote were my views.

[arjun]

I just saw the video (even though not with full attention, but gave importance to 29, 39 and 49 minutes as claimed by arjun soul)

One has to see from 29th to 39th minute and not 29th and 39th minute. Anyway, it does not matter if you don't find anything abnormal because the entire brahmin family is talking about this incident. If you deliberately want to close your eyes and ears, it is your sweet choice. People are even talking about how Dadi's Brahmani (assistant) was taking away the mike when in fact BapDada was trying to speak at around the 49th minute. It seems as if she has usurped the entire power to control BapDada.

[mbbhat]

1) One has to see from 29th to 39th minute and not 29th and 39th minute. Anyway, it does not matter if you don't find anything abnormal because the entire Brahmin family is talking about this incident. 2) If you deliberately want to close your eyes and ears, it is your sweet choice. 3) People are even talking about how Dadi's Brahmani (assistant) was taking away the mike when in fact BapDada was trying to speak at around the 49th minute. It seems as if she has usurped the entire power to control BapDada.

1) Fine, that is your views. OK, you may have it.

2) I think- here you are doing personal comment once again. This shows your ego. You are violating personal dharna and then say that mbbhat should be restricted in writing his views. OK, it is left to you.

I also know that- majority of BKs are saying so. But minority only escape punishment and will be proved right. [and there is a Murli point saying- koton may koyi hee Avyakt part ko samajh saktey hain = of the crores only a few will understand Avyakt part].

Just a question- Majority of BKs belive PBKs are incorrect. They say no one enters Mr. dxiit, etc, etc . Do you accept it?

But, whenever you need, you will take support of belief's of BKs to prove your statement. Is this not double standard?

So- I request you not to pass/do any personal comment once again for your own benefit and also the forum.

3)Even if mike is deliberately taken away, it can be foolishness, fear, ignorance of that BK soul.

How should a person be in front of Avyakt BapDada? Should he be in corporeal stage or in Avyakt stage? Were those who were in the stage in front of BDada in soul conscious, or at least trying to be in soul conscious or affected by the incident? What is your judgment?

If they are affected , then how can you believe that their perception about the incident is correct?

Else- if you think they were in coul conscious, then thank you for giving certificate to BKs.

[arjun]

Om Shanti. :cool:

[fluffy bunny]

Majority of BKs belive PBKs are incorrect.

How many BKs know about the PBKs at all?

How many BKs know about the PBKs in comparison to 5 or 10 years ago before the internet?

How many BKs know or have read *anything* at all about the Advance Knowledge in order to judge that it is wrong?

How many BKs think independently or question what their leaders tell them?

How often have the BK leaders told their followers to think the PBKs are incorrect?

[mbbhat]

this may go off topic.

Hence replied here.

http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t= ... d09#p43794

[Roy]

Firstly, thank you Arjun Bhai for the Vani uploads, and your important comments on this matter regarding the omissions in the English version. Imo, you play a very important if not vital part on the internet, of presenting the accurate side of events, with your great attention to detail. All souls, whether PBKs or not, should welcome and respect the part you play in these matters. I also have a lot of respect for the part fluffy Bhai plays... for all the hard work and important information he has presented us with over the years. We are very fortunate to have these two souls amongst us, serving us so well. Thanks bhais!

Although i don't think i've ever agreed with anything Mbbhat Bhai has said; he does bring up some interesting issues, and shares some great points with us... So thank you for that Bhai, and all the best in your continued spiritual journey.

The lovefest is now over! :D

[Roy]

With regard to the incident concerning Dadi Gulzar regaining consciousness... this as Arjun and Fluffy Bhai have mentioned, went on for some time... so i cannot understand why Mbbhat Bhai is trying so hard to argue against this fact. Wouldn't it be more interesting to discuss why this happened?

When it comes to why BapDada whispers; i think the argument that this is because Brahma Baba Krishna lives beyond sound is totally bogus, although it may have been used as a yukti in the 70s, so as not to disturb the children anymore than they already were, by the loss of corporeal Baba... But if we look at this realistically; who lives beyond sound the most?... and why when Father Shiv was narrating the Murlis through Brahma Baba Krishna, did the children continue to experience Brahma Baba's gruff masculine voice. I think a more staightforward answer is; that because Avyakt Brahma Baba Krishna is not yet complete, he carries a subtle body around with him, just as all other human ghosts do... and this subtle body causes pressure or disturbance, to the subtle and gross energies of the body that the ghost enters. Thus Dadi Gulzar loses consciousness on the entry of Brahma Baba, and her vocal chords are also affected... and so the whispering voice that results from this, is perceived by the listener.

"Even ghosts come and enter. However, that is a (human) soul, isn’t it (not the Supreme Soul)? When the ghost performs its task, then the part of that soul (in whose body the ghost has entered) comes to a halt.” [Mu 12.07.73]

"When I (Shiv) enter, nobody can understand that, because it is a secret. When I enter when I leave the Chariot, this can never be known." [Mu 26.01.68]

[fluffy bunny]

"Even ghosts come and enter. However, that is a (human) soul, isn’t it (not the Supreme Soul)? When the ghost performs its task, then the part of that soul (in whose body the ghost has entered) comes to a halt.” [Mu 12.07.73]

I cannot support what I am about to write with a Murli quote but, from lokik understanding of such events, when a ghost or disincarnate spirit acts within the physical realm, it requires energy to so do and that energy must come from somewhere ... perhaps why, for example, they have to feed Gulzar.

To whisper and not move around would conserve energy the most. Ditto, to avoid involving oneself as much as possible, e.g. by giving specific advice that may go right or wrong or taking a strong position would be to avoid create karmic accounts.

Sadly, with mbbhat's mentality, you're wasting your time pointing out the contradictions between what the Murlis say and what BKs say or believe. He's just going to ignore it.

Why are BKs really so upset with Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs? Really it is just based on snobbery.

They are disgusted at the thought that "God" might incarnate into a poor and ordinary old man like Virendra Dev Dixit (even though, again, that is what the Murlis say).

The leadership is still in love with and entranced by their "Prince Charming" Krishna Kripalani and he is, in some way, still bound to them. My guess is he is psychically feeding off them too in order to maintain his stage.

[mbbhat]

Sadly, with mbbhat's mentality,...

Unfortunate, is it not?
Anyhow, for me it is- Waah Baba, Waah drama.

[Roy]

The leadership is still in love with and entranced by their "Prince Charming" Krishna Kripalani and he is, in some way, still bound to them. My guess is he is psychically feeding off them too in order to maintain his stage.

There is no doubt that Brahma Baba Krishna is still attached to the Brahmin children of Mt Abu. But those children had better prepare themselves for when the soft sweet mother becomes complete(Brahma so Vishnu), and plays the part of Mahakali(the Great Death)... because heads are going to roll at this time, and it ain't gonna be pretty!

[mbbhat]

There is no doubt that Brahma Baba Krishna is still attached to the Brahmin children of Mt Abu.

Dear Baba,

1)Can it be love and not attachment?

Because, if it would have been attachment, Bap Dada would have come in bodies of others also, is it not? Also- you would have permitted children on to stage, is it not?

2)PBKs believe that- entrance of Krishna can be predicted means entrance of soul of DL in Gulzar Dadi can be predicted.

Now- would they like to predict about next turns? are they going to happen practically or going to miss like the first two?

Had PBKs predicted before about the missing first two turns in AIVV?
--------------

When it comes to why BapDada whispers*; i think the argument that this is because Brahma Baba Krishna lives beyond sound is totally bogus, although it may have been used as a yukti in the 70s, so as not to disturb the children anymore than they already were, by the loss of corporeal Baba... But if we look at this realistically; who lives beyond sound the most?... and why when Father Shiv was narrating the Murlis through Brahma Baba Krishna, did the children continue to experience Brahma Baba's gruff masculine voice. I think a more staightforward answer is; that because Avyakt Brahma Baba Krishna is not yet complete, he carries a subtle body around with him, just as all other human ghosts** do... and this subtle body causes pressure or disturbance, to the subtle and gross energies of the body that the ghost enters. Thus Dadi Gulzar loses consciousness on the entry of Brahma Baba, and her vocal chords are also affected... and so the whispering voice that results from this, is perceived by the listener. ...

I have read the Murli personally, but had not noted. Hence at present, do not have in Hindi words.

But, it is now available in the BK forum below.

Mar 1st 2009 Avyakt Murli (Original 19 June 1970):-

"You are wondering why Baba is not speaking more loudly. According to the sanskar over a long period of time, when Baba comes into the corporeal from the subtle, it does not seem
right to speak loudly. All of you gradually have to conduct your activities through signals while going beyond sound. You have to practise this. Do you understand?"


* - during period of brahma Baba, there was milan every day. And, there was no example who had become farista. But, after 1969, there have been example, hence baba might have started whispering.

** -Do in lowkik world, when ghosts enter in a person, they whisper?

[arjun]

2)PBKs believe that- entrance of Krishna can be predicted means entrance of soul of DL in Gulzar Dadi can be predicted.

Now- would they like to predict about next turns? are they going to happen practically or going to miss like the first two?

Had PBKs predicted before about the missing first two turns in AIVV?

Please quote others carefully. PBKs have never said that they can predict entry of DL in Dadi Gulzar. PBKs say that since the entry of DL in Dadi Gulzar is fixed many months in advance by the BKWSU, it means that they are predicting the entry of a human soul and not the Supreme Soul Shiv because it has been said in the Murlis that one cannot know when Shiv enters and when He departs.

"You are wondering why Baba is not speaking more loudly. According to the sanskar over a long period of time, when Baba comes into the corporeal from the subtle, it does not seem
right to speak loudly. All of you gradually have to conduct your activities through signals while going beyond sound. You have to practise this. Do you understand?"

Farishta (angel) does not mean leaving the physical body and attaining a subtle body. Farishta means someone who is living in this world full of sorrows and vices and still remains detached from it. In our day to day life we cannot work by whispering. Can you imagine teachers all over the world teaching to students in whispers????

[mbbhat]

Please quote others carefully. PBKs have never said that they can predict entry of DL in Dadi Gulzar. PBKs say that since the entry of DL in Dadi Gulzar is fixed many months in advance by the BKWSU, it means that they are predicting the entry of a human soul and not the Supreme Soul Shiv because it has been said in the Murlis that one cannot know when Shiv enters and when He departs.

You only had written to my post in some topic- -Murli says Krishna's birth can be predicted as "entrance in Dadi can be predicted "

Farishta (angel) does not mean leaving the physical body and attaining a subtle body. Farishta means someone who is living in this world full of sorrows and vices and still remains detached from it. In our day to day life we cannot work by whispering. Can you imagine teachers all over the world teaching to students in whispers????

You may interpret Murli point as you feel, but i have given the Murli point.

How many support your views? even in lowkik world- they believe farista means someone from above world.

I believe farista can be both- a soul like brahma Baba and one whose stage is excellent in this phiscal world- Murli points also say- you become farsita being in this world also. But I think- it does not mean that- the one who lives above like brahma Baba is not farista.

Interesting thing is- PBKs call Brahma baba as ghost, but then accept his teachings to prove their theory. what is this?

The teacher here is special. It is surprising that- you are comparing such unique teacher with human teachers. If so- then why do you take Murli as great words? your God Father may take words , teachings of human teachers and begin giving clarifications, is it not?*

What loss have been occured in teaching of Avyakt Vani/Murli by whispering in BKWSU from 1969? In fact, it has made a great service. the students liten to Murli while being in Yoga to higher extent than they would be sitting in every centre listening to Murli class.


* - i can also question you- where in the world - a teacher reads someone else''s speech and gives his clarification and claims others do not know that.

Where in the world someone claims 9 souls enter in this body/Kamal dixit, such and such role plays this role through this personality, etc.

You need full proof in physical way when I put views, and even if i give many times, you cannot be satisfied, you will object the meaning in another way* but for your claims you can give no proof at all. And you say- ShivBaba is with you practically!

* - i am not saying that you should accept my views. you can have your views. but, if you cannot disprove mine, you cannot say I am wrong, that too- when you have absolutely no proof for your views. [You may just say- these are my views, OK- that is your views, fine- thank you, like this]- but if you point others' views as wrong, manmath, child intellect, etc etc. but have nothing to prove your side, then what is it?