Disc.CD No.1000, dated 29.06.10, Jorsymbol (Nepal)
Part-4
Time: 27.13-29.55
Student: Baba, it has been said that there are four sons of Brahma created through his thoughts (maanas putra). So, are they [revealed] after Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar or are they [revealed] first?
Baba: As regards the maanas putra, they are revealed later. The Trimurti is revealed at first. Are the roles of the three [personalities] declared first, are the roles of the eight deities (ashta dev) revealed or are the four destructive [souls] who are added to the eight [souls] revealed [first]? Only those who are revealed first are elevated. Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are elevated. Even among them, the group of twelve [souls] of the first one [i.e.] Dev Dev Mahadev is declared first; they are elevated. Then the group of Vishnu is declared and in the end, the group of Brahma is declared. All the three are at different positions. Brahmapuri (the abode of Brahma) is at a lower level; Vishnupuri (the abode of Vishnu) is at a higher level and Shankarpuri (the abode of Shankar) is at the highest level. Then it is said: the deity Brahma, the deity higher than him is Vishnu [and] the deity higher than them is Mahadev; [He is called] ParamBrahma (the Supreme Brahma).
Another student: Baba, Shiva is higher than Shankar; [He resides in] the Supreme Abode.
Baba: Who say this? Is it the people of the path of Bhakti or those of the path of knowledge? Who say this?
Another student: The people of the path of Bhakti.
Baba: Those belonging to the path of Bhakti say this? Don’t the Brahmakumaris say this? Yes, then do the Brahmakumaris know that the incorporeal Shiva doesn’t perform any task without the corporeal one? And unless He performs the task and proves Himself, who will consider Him to be high? Is the topic of [being] ‘the highest on high’ about the incorporeal world or is it about the corporeal world? It is about which place? It is about the corporeal world.
Time: 29.56-34.04
Student: Baba, who sustains these four maanas putra as the mother and the Father?
Baba: For whom is it said, ‘You alone are my mother and You alone are my Father’?
Student: It is said for the Father Shiva.
Baba: It is said for the Father Shiva so, He Himself becomes the mother and He Himself becomes the Father as well.
Second student: Baba, as regards the mother and the Father, will Lakshmi-Narayan be called the mother and Father or will Shiva be called the mother and Father?
Baba: Lakshmi-Narayan?
Second student: Will we call Lakshmi-Narayan as the mother and the Father or will we call Shiva as the mother and the Father?
Baba: What is the name of Lakshmi-Narayan in their purushaarthi life (the life of making spiritual effort)? When they have attained the status, they are Lakshmi-Narayan. Their purushaarth has completed. But, what is their name in the purushaarthi life? Have Lakshmi-Narayan studied the knowledge or not? Or did they become Lakshmi-Narayan without studying the knowledge? Arey, why don’t you speak?
Second student: They have studied the knowledge.
Baba: They have studied the knowledge. So, from whom did they study? Did they study from the Point...?
Second student: They studied from the corporeal one.
Baba: So who is that corporeal one? He is called ShivBaba. The Father Shiva is the name of the point. That point enters some corporeal one. The corporeal one whom it enters himself is named Shankar. That is why it has been said in the Murli: next to God is Shankar. He himself is named Krishna. That is why it has been said in the Murli: next to God is Krishna. He himself is named Prajapita. That is why it has been said in the Murli: next to God is Prajapita. Yes, speak up.
Third student: They show the Creator Shiva and creator Shankar separate…
Baba: Again [you are saying] the Creator Shiva… is the creator corporeal or incorporeal?
Third student: The idol of Shiva is different and the idol of Shankar is different…
Baba: [Ironically:] the idol of Shiva is different and the idol of Shankar is different. When will He become the creator? Speak about your idea regarding the creator. You have parroted the knowledge of the Brahmakumaris. Just think and churn the advance knowledge. Yes speak up. Is the creator corporeal or incorporeal? (Student said something.) The idol? (Student said something.) Shivling will not be called an idol. An idol [is shown with] hands and legs. It has nose, eyes, and ears. Shivling is the memorial of the Incorporeal one. When the incorporeal Point of light enters the corporeal one and when that corporeal one attains the complete stage of purushaarth, idols of Him are made. He is called Shiva Shankar Bholenath . If Shiva is separated, the name will not be formed. Both of them combine and become one. The Father comes to make the child equal to Himself. There is only one child among the 330 million deities whose name is combined with that of the Father. Why? Because the Father performs the highest task through that child and then goes. Only when He performs the task, He is the highest on high. If He doesn’t perform the task and prove Himself, then how is He the highest on high?
Time: 34.06-37.16
Student: Baba, in which year will [the buildings at] Mount Abu be locked?
Baba: Why do you want [the buildings at] Mount Abu to be locked? Why do you have enmity with them? In what way have they looted away your wealth and property, your children?
Student: Baba, we want to get it locked it because they (the Brahmakumaris) unnecessarily defame the brothers and sisters of Adhyatmik Ishwariya Vishwa Vidyalaya and they themselves are ruling [there]. They are deceiving the whole world.
Baba: When you defamed God and the deities for the 63 births, did God come and lock your house? Then, why are you doing like this? Why do you want to think like this? Think that if at all anyone is close to us in the world, it is not the people of the world who are close to us. Those who have recognized God the Father at the basic level have been closer to us for many births. Didn’t you understand? Didn’t you understand? Had the worldly people been close to us, they would have been recognized the Father. At least, they would have recognized Him at the basic level. Did they recognize Him? They didn’t. So, they (those in the basic knowledge) will stay close to us birth by birth. If they are not close to the Father, they aren’t close to us either.
Those in the basic [knowledge] recognized God the Father at the basic level. We too had recognized [Him]. They are closer to us in comparison to the worldly people. And as regards this world of Brahmins in the advance [knowledge], some are from the category of atheists, some are the seeds of Arya samaj, some are the seeds of the Muslim religion, some are the seeds of the Sikh religion and some are the seeds of the Islam. Will they deceive us and leave us first or will the 330 million deity souls from the [basic] world, who are revealed at the end, deceive us? Who will deceive us first from the Copper Age? The seed form souls of the advance [party] are sitting here. They will accompany for short time, then they will show you thumb (reject), go outside and defame you. So, in reality, the enemies are inside. The videshi (foreigners) themselves are our enemies. Those videshi who are firm in their religion are not [our enemies]. The videshis who have been converting to other religions [are our enemies]. Those [souls like] Jaichand are sitting among us. ... (to be continued)
Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
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arjun
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
Disc.CD No.1000, dated 29.06.10, Jorsymbol (Nepal)
Part-5
Time: 37.22-39.40
Student: Baba, the insiders will be left [behind] and the outsiders will take away [the inheritance]. So, the outsiders will take away when He is revealed in the end.
Baba: What is meant by outsiders and what is meant by insiders? Do you know the meaning?
Student: Those in the advance [party] are insiders…
Baba: Are they insiders? [Ironically:] Then you have understood a lot! Why brother? Is this the definition of the insiders and the outsiders? Who are insiders and who are outsiders? The insiders will be left [behind] and the outsiders will take away [the inheritance]. It has happened like this in the basic [knowledge]. What has happened? Those who used to stay with Brahma Baba, slept together, ate together, they used to cook food along with him, wandered with him, walked and moved about [with him]; they were left out. Many from among them are staying [at Mount Abu]. And the outsiders, who used to live in the household life, those who didn’t surrender and stay with Brahma Baba took away [the inheritance]. All those ones are sitting here. These outsiders took away [the inheritance] in the basic [knowledge] and those who surrendered and sat inside, in the basic [knowledge], were left away. The same meaning is applicable here as well. Here also such kind of [souls] surrender, who have surrendered just for the sake of showing on the paper. They cannot break even a single straw. There is a saying, ‘he will not urinate even on a cut finger ’. There are such ones who eat, drink, stay, sleep [in the Father’s house] and they take the complete sustenance; they drink (take) the blood of hundreds of brothers and sisters when they fall sick. Is blood donated or not? So, the [other] surrendered hands also donate many bottles of blood to them many times. Even then they deceive [the Father].
Time: 39.56-41.50
Student: Baba, the people in the path of Bhakti say that it is better to stay in our religion. Our religion in the present life itself is our swadharm (religion of the self). It is also written that it is better to stay in one’s own religion. It is also mentioned in the Murli; so Baba, what should we reply for this?
Baba: So, this is what is mentioned in the Murli that… which is our religion?
Student: They think that the religion in which they are...
Baba: What do we have to do with what they think? Should we consider our opinion or will we follow the opinion of others?
Student: Whenever we go to tell them, they say that they are happy in their religion ...
Baba: Which is your religion? Ask them: which is your religion? What will they reply? (Someone said: They worship deities…) They worship deities… ask them: is the soul called ‘swa’ or is the body called ‘swa’? So, when you explain to them the original form only then will they understand. When the soul is called ‘swa’, should we see the religion of the soul or should we see the religion of the body? The [people] of the Hindu religion, the Muslim religion, the Sikh religion, the Buddhist religion, all of them have different faces. Those are the religions of the body. Ours is the religion of the soul. What should the soul inculcate and what it shouldn’t, the Father of the souls, the Supreme Soul is explaining [us]. We have forgotten our swadharma. We have become corrupt in religion (dharma bhrashta) and corrupt in actions (karma bhrashta). At least give them their introduction first. They will keep saying anything, those poor ones are ignorant.
Time: 41.51-43.23
Student: Baba, when the complete Lakshmi-Narayan are revealed in the Confluence Age, will the Father Shiva enter [Narayan]?
Baba: When they attained the position of Lakshmi-Narayan, is there the need for the entrance of the Father? Haven’t they completed their study?
Student: Who will take the souls to the Supreme Abode?
Baba: They (Lakshmi-Narayan) have [already] attained the soul conscious stage. Will everyone attain the soul conscious stage together? The one who has stabilized in the stage of the Supreme Abode beforehand, the one who is always experiencing the stage of the Supreme Abode, the one who doesn’t experience the body conscious stage at all, the one who doesn’t experience the stage of the Subtle Region, the one who experiences the incorporeal stage, he will go above first of all. Who has been shown above in the picture of ‘the [Kalpa] Tree? Has anybody been shown who takes [all] the souls [with him]?
Student: Shankar.
Baba: Shankar has been shown. So the bodily being who plays the part of Shankar has attained the position of Narayan. He is already in the high stage. The rest [of the souls] who have not attained that stage will continue to make purushaarth. Om Shanti.
Disc.CD No.1000, dated 27.06.10, Kolkata-2
Time: 00.13-01.08
Baba: Fire and cotton can’t be kept together. Female and male can’t make purushaarth (spiritual effort) together. What does it mean? Which way did we choose? Are we following [the knowledge] being defeated or are we following with the hopes to win? (Everyone said: [We are following] being defeated.) It means we are following being defeated in life. We have accepted this in our daily life that it is not possible [to live together]. When it is not at all possible, there is no use of studying that knowledge at all. The knowledge of the Gita has proven to be false.
Time: 01.52-04.10
Baba: (Answering a question) Baba has given the direction directly: if the daughter doesn’t follow the knowledge, get her married.
Student: She doesn’t want to get married and stays with her mother.
Baba: Force her.
Student: She has undergone bhatti.
Baba: Control her. Don’t let her go out of the house.
Student: She is staying with her paternal uncle.
Baba: Send her to uncle’s house and let him arrange her marriage or keep her in his house.
Student: Her mother helps her. She visits there (uncle’s house). Will she be blamed for it?
Baba: If the mother or the Father helps her what is the mistake of Baba in it?
Student: The Father hasn’t followed the knowledge and the mother has followed the knowledge. She helps her. Her fault…
Baba: When the Father hasn’t followed the knowledge it means that the household path isn’t following the path of knowledge at all. Yes. Here, Draupadi should be the one who follows the knowledge as well as the Pandavas should follow the knowledge.
Student: Will she be blamed or not?
Baba: Who?
Student: The mother.
Baba: The mother will be blamed when she doesn’t follow the Shrimat.
Student: The mother has followed the knowledge and she helps her [daughter]. She visits…
Baba: Helping [someone] is not related to the indriyaan ; [someone is] helped through the mind. When the mind starts enjoying pleasures of vices, it is considered as helping [someone]. If the husband forcefully controls the indriyaan and makes [the wife] vicious [and] if she has detached her mind and intellect, she is not vicious. The soul is vice less. It is the child of the Father. It is about becoming a corpse (murdaa). ... (to be continued)
Part-5
Time: 37.22-39.40
Student: Baba, the insiders will be left [behind] and the outsiders will take away [the inheritance]. So, the outsiders will take away when He is revealed in the end.
Baba: What is meant by outsiders and what is meant by insiders? Do you know the meaning?
Student: Those in the advance [party] are insiders…
Baba: Are they insiders? [Ironically:] Then you have understood a lot! Why brother? Is this the definition of the insiders and the outsiders? Who are insiders and who are outsiders? The insiders will be left [behind] and the outsiders will take away [the inheritance]. It has happened like this in the basic [knowledge]. What has happened? Those who used to stay with Brahma Baba, slept together, ate together, they used to cook food along with him, wandered with him, walked and moved about [with him]; they were left out. Many from among them are staying [at Mount Abu]. And the outsiders, who used to live in the household life, those who didn’t surrender and stay with Brahma Baba took away [the inheritance]. All those ones are sitting here. These outsiders took away [the inheritance] in the basic [knowledge] and those who surrendered and sat inside, in the basic [knowledge], were left away. The same meaning is applicable here as well. Here also such kind of [souls] surrender, who have surrendered just for the sake of showing on the paper. They cannot break even a single straw. There is a saying, ‘he will not urinate even on a cut finger ’. There are such ones who eat, drink, stay, sleep [in the Father’s house] and they take the complete sustenance; they drink (take) the blood of hundreds of brothers and sisters when they fall sick. Is blood donated or not? So, the [other] surrendered hands also donate many bottles of blood to them many times. Even then they deceive [the Father].
Time: 39.56-41.50
Student: Baba, the people in the path of Bhakti say that it is better to stay in our religion. Our religion in the present life itself is our swadharm (religion of the self). It is also written that it is better to stay in one’s own religion. It is also mentioned in the Murli; so Baba, what should we reply for this?
Baba: So, this is what is mentioned in the Murli that… which is our religion?
Student: They think that the religion in which they are...
Baba: What do we have to do with what they think? Should we consider our opinion or will we follow the opinion of others?
Student: Whenever we go to tell them, they say that they are happy in their religion ...
Baba: Which is your religion? Ask them: which is your religion? What will they reply? (Someone said: They worship deities…) They worship deities… ask them: is the soul called ‘swa’ or is the body called ‘swa’? So, when you explain to them the original form only then will they understand. When the soul is called ‘swa’, should we see the religion of the soul or should we see the religion of the body? The [people] of the Hindu religion, the Muslim religion, the Sikh religion, the Buddhist religion, all of them have different faces. Those are the religions of the body. Ours is the religion of the soul. What should the soul inculcate and what it shouldn’t, the Father of the souls, the Supreme Soul is explaining [us]. We have forgotten our swadharma. We have become corrupt in religion (dharma bhrashta) and corrupt in actions (karma bhrashta). At least give them their introduction first. They will keep saying anything, those poor ones are ignorant.
Time: 41.51-43.23
Student: Baba, when the complete Lakshmi-Narayan are revealed in the Confluence Age, will the Father Shiva enter [Narayan]?
Baba: When they attained the position of Lakshmi-Narayan, is there the need for the entrance of the Father? Haven’t they completed their study?
Student: Who will take the souls to the Supreme Abode?
Baba: They (Lakshmi-Narayan) have [already] attained the soul conscious stage. Will everyone attain the soul conscious stage together? The one who has stabilized in the stage of the Supreme Abode beforehand, the one who is always experiencing the stage of the Supreme Abode, the one who doesn’t experience the body conscious stage at all, the one who doesn’t experience the stage of the Subtle Region, the one who experiences the incorporeal stage, he will go above first of all. Who has been shown above in the picture of ‘the [Kalpa] Tree? Has anybody been shown who takes [all] the souls [with him]?
Student: Shankar.
Baba: Shankar has been shown. So the bodily being who plays the part of Shankar has attained the position of Narayan. He is already in the high stage. The rest [of the souls] who have not attained that stage will continue to make purushaarth. Om Shanti.
Disc.CD No.1000, dated 27.06.10, Kolkata-2
Time: 00.13-01.08
Baba: Fire and cotton can’t be kept together. Female and male can’t make purushaarth (spiritual effort) together. What does it mean? Which way did we choose? Are we following [the knowledge] being defeated or are we following with the hopes to win? (Everyone said: [We are following] being defeated.) It means we are following being defeated in life. We have accepted this in our daily life that it is not possible [to live together]. When it is not at all possible, there is no use of studying that knowledge at all. The knowledge of the Gita has proven to be false.
Time: 01.52-04.10
Baba: (Answering a question) Baba has given the direction directly: if the daughter doesn’t follow the knowledge, get her married.
Student: She doesn’t want to get married and stays with her mother.
Baba: Force her.
Student: She has undergone bhatti.
Baba: Control her. Don’t let her go out of the house.
Student: She is staying with her paternal uncle.
Baba: Send her to uncle’s house and let him arrange her marriage or keep her in his house.
Student: Her mother helps her. She visits there (uncle’s house). Will she be blamed for it?
Baba: If the mother or the Father helps her what is the mistake of Baba in it?
Student: The Father hasn’t followed the knowledge and the mother has followed the knowledge. She helps her. Her fault…
Baba: When the Father hasn’t followed the knowledge it means that the household path isn’t following the path of knowledge at all. Yes. Here, Draupadi should be the one who follows the knowledge as well as the Pandavas should follow the knowledge.
Student: Will she be blamed or not?
Baba: Who?
Student: The mother.
Baba: The mother will be blamed when she doesn’t follow the Shrimat.
Student: The mother has followed the knowledge and she helps her [daughter]. She visits…
Baba: Helping [someone] is not related to the indriyaan ; [someone is] helped through the mind. When the mind starts enjoying pleasures of vices, it is considered as helping [someone]. If the husband forcefully controls the indriyaan and makes [the wife] vicious [and] if she has detached her mind and intellect, she is not vicious. The soul is vice less. It is the child of the Father. It is about becoming a corpse (murdaa). ... (to be continued)
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arjun
- PBK
- Posts: 12239
- Joined: 01 May 2006
- Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
- Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
- Location: India
Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
Disc.CD No.1000, dated 27.06.10, Kolkata-2
Part-6
Time: 04.18-05.28
Student: Baba, Baba has said that the name of Pakistan will vanish.
Baba: Yes, yes.
Student: …only the land of Bharat (India) will remain.
Baba: All the neighboring countries like Pakistan, Nepal, Bhutan, etc. will join with Hindustan (India) and become one. Now Bharat is divided. What will happen later? Bharat will become undivided. Yes, then?
Student: So Baba, why was the name of Pakistan taken?
Baba: Why was the name of Pakistan taken? It is present now in practice, isn’t it?
Student: They are separate countries.
Baba: They are separate, so Bharat is divided, isn’t it? Was it divided before as well? Earlier, it was undivided. Pakistan wasn’t separated [from India] earlier.
Student: It didn’t exist 60 years ago.
Baba: Pakistan didn’t exist before 1947; it was formed later on.
Time: 05.33-07.52
Student: Baba, there is a bandheli mother (mother in bondage)...
Baba: Bandheli mother, yes.
Student: She wants to undergo bhatti. Her husband is not co-operative with her.
Baba: He doesn’t give permission?
Student: No. He doesn’t give permission.
Baba: Yes.
Student: So, what should the mother do in this [case]?
Baba: She can do bhatti at home. She can undergo bhatti at home itself.
Student: How?
Baba: It is the subject of her dedication.
Student: If she doesn’t go for doing bhatti, can’t she come to the class?
Baba: Where did she take the knowledge from?
Student: From the center.
Baba: So how did she come? Are those who have not undergone bhatti forbidden to come to the ashram? (Someone said: No Baba, it is not so.) Then? She is not forbidden to come to the ashram or Gita paathshaalaa. Even if someone hasn’t undergone bhatti, he can attend the class.
Student: Can she meet Baba, when Baba comes?
Baba: Firstly, she should become Baba’s child, shouldn’t she? She should do bhatti at her home itself and prove her devotion so that others come to know that she has become the child of Baba. No one can say that she is not the child of Baba. [Then] Baba will also accept her. In fact, they, the bandheli mothers undergo a permanent bhatti.
Student: Baba, should she go to Kampil…
Baba: If the bandheli mothers are kept in bondage, if they are always in bondage but they are attending the classes regularly then even if they don’t undergo bhatti, they will be given permission [to come to the ashram]. (Someone said something.) Yes.
Time: 07.57-10.22
Student: Baba, there is a world in each star ...
Baba: Each star has a world in itself.
Student: There will be one world, one language in the Golden Age. Each star has a world in itself, meaning how many worlds will be there?
Second student: He wants to ask that each star has a world in itself so how many stars will get together to make one language, one opinion?
Baba: All those stars will merge themselves into the Sun. Just like the Suryavanshis (those belonging to the Sun dynasty) merge their respect and position into the respect and position of the Sun. They won’t have a different opinion. The opinion will be the same as that of the Father. The subjects will also have the same opinion as that of Narayan. The entire family will become one. The entire earth itself will become one family. It doesn’t matter, if they make their own world from the Copper Age. There will be just one world till [the end of] the Silver Age, for 2500 years. Though there will be separate kingdoms in the kingdom of Ram, there will be many kings, they will remain under the control of the one. It is not like this in the Copper and Iron ages.
Third student: Baba, this is in the unlimited. Will all the stars merge in the Sun in the limited?
Baba: It will always be daytime there. The existence of the stars will end. There won’t be night there at all. When there won’t be the night, will the stars be seen? (Someone said: They won’t be seen.) They won’t be seen at all.
Time: 10.25-12.21
Student: Hasn’t anyone attained the karmaatiit stage till now?
Baba: The karmaatiit stage? (Someone said: Has anyone attained it or not?) Have you attained the karmaatiit stage? Then you should not have any disease or sorrow.
Another student: He is asking, hasn’t anyone attained the karmaatiit stage?
Baba: Will the one who has attained the karmaatiit stage be attacked by any disease? He won’t. Will anyone oppose him? Will anyone oppose him through speech? Arey! He won’t be opposed through speech. He won’t be opposed even through vision. The sign of someone who has attained the karmaatiit stage is that he won’t be opposed by anyone. Whoever comes near him, he will belong to him. He (the one who has attained the stage) will become Parasnath , he will become [like] the stone of paaras .
Student: Baba, when will we attain it?
Baba: When will you attain it? It was said just now: it takes 40 years to become satopradhaan from tamopradhaan ; it takes 50 years. And you forgot while listening. (Someone said something.) Baba has been saying this since a long time in the Avyakt Vanis. What should you do? Fix the date to become complete. Leave aside the topic of the date, at least the year [of becoming complete] should be fixed in the intellect.
Time: 12.25-13.30
Student: Baba has gone away from the Supreme Abode (Paramdhaam). Brahma is with you for many births. If we remain together for many births, how will the corporeal one go to the Supreme Abode?
Baba: The Incorporeal one will go back and the corporeal one will stay together for many births; and he will stay together with those who are together with him here. The one who is an opponent here, he will be an opponent there as well. Those who have been the companions and helpers here, will become companions and helpers there for many births. If they oppose even to the level of thoughts here…, so the shooting is going on. The seed of thought is sown here and it will happen in practice there (in the broad drama). Opposing [him] even to the level of thoughts here will turn out into a big war there. ... (to be continued)
Part-6
Time: 04.18-05.28
Student: Baba, Baba has said that the name of Pakistan will vanish.
Baba: Yes, yes.
Student: …only the land of Bharat (India) will remain.
Baba: All the neighboring countries like Pakistan, Nepal, Bhutan, etc. will join with Hindustan (India) and become one. Now Bharat is divided. What will happen later? Bharat will become undivided. Yes, then?
Student: So Baba, why was the name of Pakistan taken?
Baba: Why was the name of Pakistan taken? It is present now in practice, isn’t it?
Student: They are separate countries.
Baba: They are separate, so Bharat is divided, isn’t it? Was it divided before as well? Earlier, it was undivided. Pakistan wasn’t separated [from India] earlier.
Student: It didn’t exist 60 years ago.
Baba: Pakistan didn’t exist before 1947; it was formed later on.
Time: 05.33-07.52
Student: Baba, there is a bandheli mother (mother in bondage)...
Baba: Bandheli mother, yes.
Student: She wants to undergo bhatti. Her husband is not co-operative with her.
Baba: He doesn’t give permission?
Student: No. He doesn’t give permission.
Baba: Yes.
Student: So, what should the mother do in this [case]?
Baba: She can do bhatti at home. She can undergo bhatti at home itself.
Student: How?
Baba: It is the subject of her dedication.
Student: If she doesn’t go for doing bhatti, can’t she come to the class?
Baba: Where did she take the knowledge from?
Student: From the center.
Baba: So how did she come? Are those who have not undergone bhatti forbidden to come to the ashram? (Someone said: No Baba, it is not so.) Then? She is not forbidden to come to the ashram or Gita paathshaalaa. Even if someone hasn’t undergone bhatti, he can attend the class.
Student: Can she meet Baba, when Baba comes?
Baba: Firstly, she should become Baba’s child, shouldn’t she? She should do bhatti at her home itself and prove her devotion so that others come to know that she has become the child of Baba. No one can say that she is not the child of Baba. [Then] Baba will also accept her. In fact, they, the bandheli mothers undergo a permanent bhatti.
Student: Baba, should she go to Kampil…
Baba: If the bandheli mothers are kept in bondage, if they are always in bondage but they are attending the classes regularly then even if they don’t undergo bhatti, they will be given permission [to come to the ashram]. (Someone said something.) Yes.
Time: 07.57-10.22
Student: Baba, there is a world in each star ...
Baba: Each star has a world in itself.
Student: There will be one world, one language in the Golden Age. Each star has a world in itself, meaning how many worlds will be there?
Second student: He wants to ask that each star has a world in itself so how many stars will get together to make one language, one opinion?
Baba: All those stars will merge themselves into the Sun. Just like the Suryavanshis (those belonging to the Sun dynasty) merge their respect and position into the respect and position of the Sun. They won’t have a different opinion. The opinion will be the same as that of the Father. The subjects will also have the same opinion as that of Narayan. The entire family will become one. The entire earth itself will become one family. It doesn’t matter, if they make their own world from the Copper Age. There will be just one world till [the end of] the Silver Age, for 2500 years. Though there will be separate kingdoms in the kingdom of Ram, there will be many kings, they will remain under the control of the one. It is not like this in the Copper and Iron ages.
Third student: Baba, this is in the unlimited. Will all the stars merge in the Sun in the limited?
Baba: It will always be daytime there. The existence of the stars will end. There won’t be night there at all. When there won’t be the night, will the stars be seen? (Someone said: They won’t be seen.) They won’t be seen at all.
Time: 10.25-12.21
Student: Hasn’t anyone attained the karmaatiit stage till now?
Baba: The karmaatiit stage? (Someone said: Has anyone attained it or not?) Have you attained the karmaatiit stage? Then you should not have any disease or sorrow.
Another student: He is asking, hasn’t anyone attained the karmaatiit stage?
Baba: Will the one who has attained the karmaatiit stage be attacked by any disease? He won’t. Will anyone oppose him? Will anyone oppose him through speech? Arey! He won’t be opposed through speech. He won’t be opposed even through vision. The sign of someone who has attained the karmaatiit stage is that he won’t be opposed by anyone. Whoever comes near him, he will belong to him. He (the one who has attained the stage) will become Parasnath , he will become [like] the stone of paaras .
Student: Baba, when will we attain it?
Baba: When will you attain it? It was said just now: it takes 40 years to become satopradhaan from tamopradhaan ; it takes 50 years. And you forgot while listening. (Someone said something.) Baba has been saying this since a long time in the Avyakt Vanis. What should you do? Fix the date to become complete. Leave aside the topic of the date, at least the year [of becoming complete] should be fixed in the intellect.
Time: 12.25-13.30
Student: Baba has gone away from the Supreme Abode (Paramdhaam). Brahma is with you for many births. If we remain together for many births, how will the corporeal one go to the Supreme Abode?
Baba: The Incorporeal one will go back and the corporeal one will stay together for many births; and he will stay together with those who are together with him here. The one who is an opponent here, he will be an opponent there as well. Those who have been the companions and helpers here, will become companions and helpers there for many births. If they oppose even to the level of thoughts here…, so the shooting is going on. The seed of thought is sown here and it will happen in practice there (in the broad drama). Opposing [him] even to the level of thoughts here will turn out into a big war there. ... (to be continued)
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arjun
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
Disc.CD No.1000, dated 27.06.10, Kolkata-2
Part-7
Time: 13.38-18.09
Student: Baba, what will she do? The Father, paternal uncle, aunt are on one side. The virgin and the mother have undergone bhatti. The Father doesn’t follow the knowledge. He threatens her [saying:] you won’t be given food, don’t stay with me. What will she do? He doesn’t give the separation letter (chaad patra) either.
Baba: What is the matter? What is she telling? Arey, let the one who knows Hindi speak. (To the mother:) These people haven’t understood. Speak up… (Student said something.)
Second student: The daughter and mother are following the knowledge. All her relatives i.e. uncle, aunt, Father’s elder brother and so on…
Baba: All the relatives don’t follow the knowledge.
Second student: They don’t. They oppose her; they also drive her out of the house. What should they do?
Baba: If they drive her out of the house, she should go to the police station and report about it. She can take a copy of that report and go to any ashram and stay there. (Second student: She is asking [the same thing].) It was already said: if the one to whom she was married has sent her out of the house… if the one to whom she was married, the one who married her in public, the one who promised to accompany her and then sent her out of the house, then, she should gather four people and go to the police station and report about it [mentioning that] after marrying you, he (the husband) beat you and sent you out of the house. If there are any injury marks, go and report about it in the hospital.
Second student: He says her to leave the knowledge.
Baba: Arey, when she is going to separate, why should she leave [the knowledge]? Does anyone leave the religion? Why should she leave the religion?
Student: He doesn’t give separation letter either.
Baba: First, at least bring the report that you have given [in written] in the police station. At least bring the report of the injuries, the beatings that you have suffered from the hospital first. You are dying because of fear and because of attachment.
Student: She said [her husband]: I will stay at Baba’s house; give me separation letter. [But] he doesn’t give it.
Baba: What is chaad patra? (Someone said: Divorce.) The one who wants divorce, he himself will go to the court and give divorce. Why should we give divorce? Are we videshi (foreigner) mothers? We don’t give divorce. If he has sent her out of the house it means, he has given divorce to her.
Third student: He calls her at home. He says her: leave the knowledge; otherwise, if you go to Baba’s house, give me everything that belongs to me in written and you may go. He doesn’t give divorce.
Baba: There is no need to write anything. It was already said that if he has sent her out of the house, if there are injury marks, go to the hospital and take paper, get yourself checked, take a copy of the report and you may go wherever you wish with both the papers (both the reports). No one will be able to do anything.
Student: Can she stay at Baba’s house to do service?
Baba: Certainly, she can. Swans and herons cannot live together anyway. If not today, the swans and herons will definitely separate tomorrow. The worms of the drain will remain in the drain itself.
Time: 18.18-19.22
Student: Baba, please tell us something about fixing the date to attain karmaatiit stage.
Baba: Fix it, won’t you? Baba has hinted towards the year. (Someone said: It has [to be attained] before 2018.) Baba has hinted towards the year 2018. Now, you may fix the month or fix the date; you too, do something for it, won’t you?
Student: It is said in the Murli: fix the date in your heart at first; has every soul in the world received Baba’s inheritance?
Baba: Will everyone receive it at first? First, if you die… (Everyone said: the world is dead for you.) Leave aside the topic of others. First of all, you, die yourself. First, die in body conscious yourself. The world will be reformed automatically. If you yourself become karmaatiit, all those who come in our contact will also become karmaatiit. (Someone said: Yes Your Highness.) Yes.
Time: 19.42-21.38
Question: Who will be called kumars (bachelors), adhar kumars (married men), kumari (virgin) and adhar kumari (married women) in the unlimited?
Answer: It means, you have understood in the limited, haven’t you? (Baba read the name of the questioner) Prakash Bhai (brother). Who is he? (To the brother:) First, tell [me], who are they in the limited.
Student: The one who is not married is called kumar.
Baba: Yes, those who haven’t received the license to indulge in vices are kumar. And?
Student: Adhar kumar means the one who is married.
Baba: Yes, those who have received the license to dive [in the ocean of] vices. Even the Government can’t do anything [against them]. They beat [their wives] and [make them] indulge in vices. The society can’t do anything [against them] either. They are the married ones. Yes; and?
Student: Mothers means those who have children.
Baba: If she is married, she is a mother. If she is not married, she isn’t a mother; she is a kumari. Yes, and?
Student: What is its meaning in the unlimited?
Baba: Where is the question of [considering it] in the unlimited? It will be considered in the unlimited when it is about the internal [state]. There are some who are kumars externally but from within (from the mind), they have married twenty times. So are they adhar kumar in the unlimited or in the limited? (Someone said: In the unlimited.) They are adhar kumar in the unlimited.
Time: 21.41-22.49
Student: Baba…
Baba: Yes.
Student: How can we become karmaatiit?
Baba: How can we become karmaatiit? Practice to remain in remembrance while performing actions. You should have a constant practice of remaining in remembrance while performing actions through any karmendriyaan ; if you have constant remembrance, it will be called karmaatiit stage. If there is a gap in the remembrance, if the intellect is diverted towards enjoying pleasures or if it starts enjoying pleasures through the karmendriyaan... just like [Brahma]Baba says [in the Murli], when I sit to have food, I eat [just] one or two morsels (gitti) and I forget to be in remembrance of the Father. It will not be called the karmaatiit stage.
Time: 22.58-26.34
Student: Baba, a point has been mentioned in the Murli, Draupadi had five husbands. Each one of them made her wear a nose ring one by one. So, what does it mean in the unlimited, we didn’t understand it.
Baba: It is said about Cakrata.
Student: Yes, we didn’t understand it.
Baba: Near Dehradun (a place in North India), there is a village named Cakrata, where they have double body consciousness. It is named Dehradun in the unlimited. How much body consciousness do they have? They have ‘dun’ [meaning] double body consciousness. There is a village there. This memorial exists even today in that village. It is the memorial of the path of Bhakti; it is the memorial of the Confluence Age that Draupadi had double body consciousness. If she didn’t have been double body conscious she wouldn’t have laughed at Duryodhan at all. What was the main reason? Did Duryodhan, Dushasan start the war or did Draupadi start it? Who became the reason [for the war to take place]? Draupadi became the reason. The body consciousness of virgins and mothers is famous. Jagdamba (the World Mother) is the chief of those virgins and mothers. When compared to men, women have double body consciousness. It is the males who are vicious. It is the males who are lustful, wrathful ones, greedy, the ones with attachment and egotistic. But it is the females who have body consciousness in the Copper and Iron ages. That is why Brahma has been shown [above the ten] heads of Ravan as [the head of] a donkey. It is not sitting in the intellect of that soul even now, who God of the Gita is. That is why he rolls about in body consciousness again and again. The soul is powerful because of having a subtle body. Through whom does he roll about [in body consciousness]? He certainly doesn’t have his own body. (Someone said: Through Jagdamba.) Through the body of Jagdamba? In fact, [he takes on] his last form [through her]. From whom does he begin? Is Jagdamba first or is Jagatpita (the Father of world) first? (Someone said: Jagatpita is first.) Yes.
Time: 26.50-30.15
Question: Baba, how will the beads of the Rudramaalaa (the rosary of Rudra) and the Vijaymaalaa (the rosary of victory) recognize each other?
Answer: Have you recognized the first and the last bead of the Rudramaalaa? Arey, have you recognized them or not? (Someone said: We have recognized [them].) Those who have recognized them, do raise your hands. [Only] one, two, three, four hands are raising up. That’s all! Have you recognized? Who [are they]? (Someone said: Prajapita ...) It is Prajapita and Jagdamba. So, when you have recognized the first and the last bead of the Rudramaalaa, won’t there be the first and the last bead in the Vijaymaalaa? (Someone said: There will be.) So, when the roles of two [souls] can be revealed, can’t the roles of 108 [souls] be revealed? It can be revealed. When eight [souls] can be revealed, sixteen [souls] can also be revealed. Then, won’t they recognize each other? Will they recognize [each other] through the eyes of knowledge or not? They will. Then will the connection of their intellect go towards each other or not? (Someone said: It will.) It will.
Question: Will Baba tell [us] about that recognition or will we find them by ourselves?
Baba: He is getting worried a lot! He is not getting worried about the remembrance of Baba. He is getting worried about searching his partner at first. Now tell [me], those who are getting worried about it, are they videshi (foreigner) beads or swadeshi (Indian) beads? (Someone said: They are videshi.) The videshi children search their partner by themselves. And those who are swadeshi children of the Father, they make their parents the instrument [for this]. They don’t worry about themselves.
Question: And after recognizing each other…
Baba: One more interesting thing.
Question: …and after recognizing each other, what will both of them do at that time?
Baba: This is the mentality [of the questioner]. (Someone said: They will forget Baba.) [Ironically:] Great!
Baba: Om Shanti. (Concluded)
Part-7
Time: 13.38-18.09
Student: Baba, what will she do? The Father, paternal uncle, aunt are on one side. The virgin and the mother have undergone bhatti. The Father doesn’t follow the knowledge. He threatens her [saying:] you won’t be given food, don’t stay with me. What will she do? He doesn’t give the separation letter (chaad patra) either.
Baba: What is the matter? What is she telling? Arey, let the one who knows Hindi speak. (To the mother:) These people haven’t understood. Speak up… (Student said something.)
Second student: The daughter and mother are following the knowledge. All her relatives i.e. uncle, aunt, Father’s elder brother and so on…
Baba: All the relatives don’t follow the knowledge.
Second student: They don’t. They oppose her; they also drive her out of the house. What should they do?
Baba: If they drive her out of the house, she should go to the police station and report about it. She can take a copy of that report and go to any ashram and stay there. (Second student: She is asking [the same thing].) It was already said: if the one to whom she was married has sent her out of the house… if the one to whom she was married, the one who married her in public, the one who promised to accompany her and then sent her out of the house, then, she should gather four people and go to the police station and report about it [mentioning that] after marrying you, he (the husband) beat you and sent you out of the house. If there are any injury marks, go and report about it in the hospital.
Second student: He says her to leave the knowledge.
Baba: Arey, when she is going to separate, why should she leave [the knowledge]? Does anyone leave the religion? Why should she leave the religion?
Student: He doesn’t give separation letter either.
Baba: First, at least bring the report that you have given [in written] in the police station. At least bring the report of the injuries, the beatings that you have suffered from the hospital first. You are dying because of fear and because of attachment.
Student: She said [her husband]: I will stay at Baba’s house; give me separation letter. [But] he doesn’t give it.
Baba: What is chaad patra? (Someone said: Divorce.) The one who wants divorce, he himself will go to the court and give divorce. Why should we give divorce? Are we videshi (foreigner) mothers? We don’t give divorce. If he has sent her out of the house it means, he has given divorce to her.
Third student: He calls her at home. He says her: leave the knowledge; otherwise, if you go to Baba’s house, give me everything that belongs to me in written and you may go. He doesn’t give divorce.
Baba: There is no need to write anything. It was already said that if he has sent her out of the house, if there are injury marks, go to the hospital and take paper, get yourself checked, take a copy of the report and you may go wherever you wish with both the papers (both the reports). No one will be able to do anything.
Student: Can she stay at Baba’s house to do service?
Baba: Certainly, she can. Swans and herons cannot live together anyway. If not today, the swans and herons will definitely separate tomorrow. The worms of the drain will remain in the drain itself.
Time: 18.18-19.22
Student: Baba, please tell us something about fixing the date to attain karmaatiit stage.
Baba: Fix it, won’t you? Baba has hinted towards the year. (Someone said: It has [to be attained] before 2018.) Baba has hinted towards the year 2018. Now, you may fix the month or fix the date; you too, do something for it, won’t you?
Student: It is said in the Murli: fix the date in your heart at first; has every soul in the world received Baba’s inheritance?
Baba: Will everyone receive it at first? First, if you die… (Everyone said: the world is dead for you.) Leave aside the topic of others. First of all, you, die yourself. First, die in body conscious yourself. The world will be reformed automatically. If you yourself become karmaatiit, all those who come in our contact will also become karmaatiit. (Someone said: Yes Your Highness.) Yes.
Time: 19.42-21.38
Question: Who will be called kumars (bachelors), adhar kumars (married men), kumari (virgin) and adhar kumari (married women) in the unlimited?
Answer: It means, you have understood in the limited, haven’t you? (Baba read the name of the questioner) Prakash Bhai (brother). Who is he? (To the brother:) First, tell [me], who are they in the limited.
Student: The one who is not married is called kumar.
Baba: Yes, those who haven’t received the license to indulge in vices are kumar. And?
Student: Adhar kumar means the one who is married.
Baba: Yes, those who have received the license to dive [in the ocean of] vices. Even the Government can’t do anything [against them]. They beat [their wives] and [make them] indulge in vices. The society can’t do anything [against them] either. They are the married ones. Yes; and?
Student: Mothers means those who have children.
Baba: If she is married, she is a mother. If she is not married, she isn’t a mother; she is a kumari. Yes, and?
Student: What is its meaning in the unlimited?
Baba: Where is the question of [considering it] in the unlimited? It will be considered in the unlimited when it is about the internal [state]. There are some who are kumars externally but from within (from the mind), they have married twenty times. So are they adhar kumar in the unlimited or in the limited? (Someone said: In the unlimited.) They are adhar kumar in the unlimited.
Time: 21.41-22.49
Student: Baba…
Baba: Yes.
Student: How can we become karmaatiit?
Baba: How can we become karmaatiit? Practice to remain in remembrance while performing actions. You should have a constant practice of remaining in remembrance while performing actions through any karmendriyaan ; if you have constant remembrance, it will be called karmaatiit stage. If there is a gap in the remembrance, if the intellect is diverted towards enjoying pleasures or if it starts enjoying pleasures through the karmendriyaan... just like [Brahma]Baba says [in the Murli], when I sit to have food, I eat [just] one or two morsels (gitti) and I forget to be in remembrance of the Father. It will not be called the karmaatiit stage.
Time: 22.58-26.34
Student: Baba, a point has been mentioned in the Murli, Draupadi had five husbands. Each one of them made her wear a nose ring one by one. So, what does it mean in the unlimited, we didn’t understand it.
Baba: It is said about Cakrata.
Student: Yes, we didn’t understand it.
Baba: Near Dehradun (a place in North India), there is a village named Cakrata, where they have double body consciousness. It is named Dehradun in the unlimited. How much body consciousness do they have? They have ‘dun’ [meaning] double body consciousness. There is a village there. This memorial exists even today in that village. It is the memorial of the path of Bhakti; it is the memorial of the Confluence Age that Draupadi had double body consciousness. If she didn’t have been double body conscious she wouldn’t have laughed at Duryodhan at all. What was the main reason? Did Duryodhan, Dushasan start the war or did Draupadi start it? Who became the reason [for the war to take place]? Draupadi became the reason. The body consciousness of virgins and mothers is famous. Jagdamba (the World Mother) is the chief of those virgins and mothers. When compared to men, women have double body consciousness. It is the males who are vicious. It is the males who are lustful, wrathful ones, greedy, the ones with attachment and egotistic. But it is the females who have body consciousness in the Copper and Iron ages. That is why Brahma has been shown [above the ten] heads of Ravan as [the head of] a donkey. It is not sitting in the intellect of that soul even now, who God of the Gita is. That is why he rolls about in body consciousness again and again. The soul is powerful because of having a subtle body. Through whom does he roll about [in body consciousness]? He certainly doesn’t have his own body. (Someone said: Through Jagdamba.) Through the body of Jagdamba? In fact, [he takes on] his last form [through her]. From whom does he begin? Is Jagdamba first or is Jagatpita (the Father of world) first? (Someone said: Jagatpita is first.) Yes.
Time: 26.50-30.15
Question: Baba, how will the beads of the Rudramaalaa (the rosary of Rudra) and the Vijaymaalaa (the rosary of victory) recognize each other?
Answer: Have you recognized the first and the last bead of the Rudramaalaa? Arey, have you recognized them or not? (Someone said: We have recognized [them].) Those who have recognized them, do raise your hands. [Only] one, two, three, four hands are raising up. That’s all! Have you recognized? Who [are they]? (Someone said: Prajapita ...) It is Prajapita and Jagdamba. So, when you have recognized the first and the last bead of the Rudramaalaa, won’t there be the first and the last bead in the Vijaymaalaa? (Someone said: There will be.) So, when the roles of two [souls] can be revealed, can’t the roles of 108 [souls] be revealed? It can be revealed. When eight [souls] can be revealed, sixteen [souls] can also be revealed. Then, won’t they recognize each other? Will they recognize [each other] through the eyes of knowledge or not? They will. Then will the connection of their intellect go towards each other or not? (Someone said: It will.) It will.
Question: Will Baba tell [us] about that recognition or will we find them by ourselves?
Baba: He is getting worried a lot! He is not getting worried about the remembrance of Baba. He is getting worried about searching his partner at first. Now tell [me], those who are getting worried about it, are they videshi (foreigner) beads or swadeshi (Indian) beads? (Someone said: They are videshi.) The videshi children search their partner by themselves. And those who are swadeshi children of the Father, they make their parents the instrument [for this]. They don’t worry about themselves.
Question: And after recognizing each other…
Baba: One more interesting thing.
Question: …and after recognizing each other, what will both of them do at that time?
Baba: This is the mentality [of the questioner]. (Someone said: They will forget Baba.) [Ironically:] Great!
Baba: Om Shanti. (Concluded)
-
arjun
- PBK
- Posts: 12239
- Joined: 01 May 2006
- Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
- Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
- Location: India
Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
वार्तालाप-1236, नीलंगा, ता.17.10.11
भाग-1
जिज्ञासु:- बाबा, भक्तिमार्ग में कहा जाता है राम चरण सुखदार्इ। ऐसा क्यों बोला?
बाबा:- राम चरण सुखदार्इ। चरण कहते हैं पाँव को। पाँव कौन से हैं, वो नहीं जानते क्या? जैसे पाँव से कहीं चलकर जाया जाता है, पाँव से पहूँचते हैं। ऐसे कहा जाता है, तुम्हारी बुद्धि हमारे गुरुजी तक नही पहुँचेगी अर्थात तुम्हारे बुद्धि के पाँव हमारे गुरुजी तक नहीं पहुँचेंगे। तो ये पहूँचने का काम बुद्धि भी करती है। बुद्धि दौड़ती भी है, बुद्धि हार्इ जम्प भी लगाती है और बुद्धि चलती भी है और कोर्इ-कोर्इ की बुद्धि रुक भी जाती है। तो बुद्धि से मिसाल दिया जाता है चरण का, पाँव का। तो मनुष्यों कि बुद्धि सुखदार्इ है या भगवान के बुद्धि रुपी चरण सुखदायी है? उन्होंने राम को भगवान समझ लिया है। अब राम तो भगवान है नहीं। वो तो त्रेता के राम को भगवान समझ लेते हैं। लेकिन वास्तव में है तो कौन से राम की बात? वो ही राम वाली आत्मा 84 के चक्र में आते-आते अन्तिम जन्म में शिवबाप का रथ बनती है, मुकर्रर रथ। तब कहा जाता है राम चरण सुखदार्इ। और सभी जन्मों में सुखदार्इ नहीं कहेंगे क्योंकि और जन्म के लिये तो मुरली में बोला है, राम सीता को खादी का राजा रानी कहेंगे। क्या मतलब? खादी ठण्डी में गर्म रहती है और गर्मियों में ठण्डी रहती है; लेकिन बरसात में भारी हो जाती है, चिपकती है, धूल-मिट्टी में बहुत गन्दी हो जाती है, इसलिये दुखदार्इ हो जाती है। तो राम की बात नहीं है। जो देहअभिमानी होते हैं वो देहधारी को ही भगवान समझ बैठते हैं। तो देहधारी भगवान है, राम, कृष्ण भगवान है या शिवबाबा भगवान है? शिवबाबा भगवान है। शिव की आत्मा अलग और राम की आत्मा अलग। राम, कृष्ण कहे तो जाते हैं, ये दो बैलों कि जोड़ी तो हैं, परन्तु ये तो बैल है, ये कोर्इ शिवबाबा नहीं है। तो इनके पाँव, राम, कृष्ण के पाँव सुखदार्इ नहीं हैं। किसके पाँव सुखदार्इ हैं? शिवबाबा के पाँव सुखदार्इ हैं।
प्रश्न:- कोर्इ ने पूछा है - न चाहते हुये भी बुरे संकल्प क्यों आते हैं?
बाबा:- पहली बात, न चाहते हूये भी बूरे संकल्प इसलिये आते हैं, कि अभी 84 जन्मों के ड्रामा की रील घूम रही है। 84 जन्मों में हमने 63 जन्म में बुरे कर्म भी बहुत किये हैं, अभी हम उल्टी सीढ़ी चढ़ रहे हैं या ऊपर से नीचे उतर रहे हैं? नीचे से ऊपर चढ़ रहे हैं। तो चढ़ते-चढ़ते द्वापर की सीढ़ी चढ़ गए होंगे, चढ़ गए या नहीं चढ़ गए? चढ़ गए? अगर चढ़ गए तो सतयुग, त्रेता में अच्छा ही अच्छा होता है कि वहाँ बुरा भी होता है? अगर कलियुग और द्वापर की सीढ़ी चढ़ गए तो त्रेता युग के संकल्पों में रमण करेंगे, सुखदार्इ संकल्पों की रील घूमेगी या दुखदार्इ संकल्पों की रील घूमेगी? सुखदार्इ संकल्पों की ही रील घूमेगी। इससे साबित होता है कि अभी हम कलियुग और द्वापर में ही चक्कर काट रहे हैं। 63 जन्मों की रील घूम् रही है। कभी अच्छे कर्म किये हैं तो अच्छी रील घूमती है। अच्छे से याद भी आती है, अच्छे से पुरुषार्थ भी होता है। जब खराब कर्म किये हैं, दुष्ट संग मिला है तो वो रील ऐसी ही घूमती है। हम कितना भी पुरुषार्थ करना चाहे, कितना भी याद करना चाहे लेकिन याद नहीं आती है। बोलते हैं - बाबा को याद करने बैठने से बाबा का चेहरा भी याद नहीं आता है, इसका कारण क्या है? अरे, रील घूमेगी उस रील घूमने में अगर बाबा से जुदा हो गए होंगे, कोर्इ और से बुद्धि योग चिपकता रहा होगा, कोर्इ और के चक्कर में फॅंस गए, सारा जिन्दगी उसके साथ बिताया जो कुसंग में ले जाने वाला है, तो वो अपने चेहरे की याद दिलायेगा या बाबा का चेहरा याद आयेगा? अपने चेहरे की याद दिलायेगा। बाबा का चेहरा भूल जायेगा।
जिज्ञासु:- बाबा, सूर्य तो अग्नि का गोला है ।
बाबा:- हाँ, जी।
जिज्ञासु:- तो शनि उसका पुत्र कैसे कहा जाता है?
बाबा:- क्यों? याद को अग्नि कहा जाता है या नहीं? कहा जाता है न। 500-700 करोड़ आत्मायें हैं पुरुषार्थ करने वाली, उन पुरुषार्थ करने वालों में कोर्इ निरन्तर याद करने वाला भी होगा या नहीं होगा? निरन्तर याद कि अग्नि में ठहरने वाला होगा या नहीं बनेगा? बनता है। तो वो हो गया आग का गोला। और सब एक जैसे पुरुषार्थी होंगे क्या? नहीं। और सब जो होते हैं, सारी दुनिया तो एक के ही बच्चे हैं न, सारी दुनिया किसका बच्चा है? अरे, एक ही बीज का बच्चा है ना। एक ही बीज बाप से पैदा हुए न। सारी दुनिया प्रजापिता ब्रह्मा की औलाद है न। सारी दुनिया तो प्रजापिता ब्रह्मा की औलाद है लेकिन एक ही अम्मा के बच्चे हैं क्या? धरणी - 2 का फर्क पड़ेगा या नहीं पड़ेगा? तो धरणी का फर्क पड़ जाता है। तो बहुत अन्तर हो जाता है।
प्रश्न:- प्रकृति के पाँच तत्वों से विनाश होगा, तो यहां बेहद में पाँच तत्व हैं- पृथ्वी, जल, वायु, अग्नि और आकाश। तो ये जो पाँच तत्व है, जो अष्ट देवों के रुप में दिखाये जाते हैं तो क्या ये विनाश के टार्इम में, महाविनाश में प्रकृति का साथ देंगे?
बाबा:- अरे! ये प्रकृति के ही पाँच रुप है, कौन? पृथ्वी, जल, वायु, अग्नि, आकाश। जैसे काम, क्रोध, लोभ, मोह, अंहकार ये किसके रुप है? रावण के रुप हैं। ऐसे ही ये पाँच तत्व भी प्रकृति के ही रुप हैं। प्र माने प्रकष्ट, कृति माने किया हुआ कार्य, प्रकष्ट रुप से तैयार होते हैं। ये भी रिजूविनेट होते हैं। इनका आदि नहीं होता है। ये प्रकृति के पाँच तत्व भी अनादि है। इनको भी देवता का रुप दिया गया है। दुनिया की हर चीज सतोप्रधान, सतोसामान्य, रजो और तमो होती है या नहीं होती है? तो अष्ट देव भी तमोप्रधान बनेंगे या नहीं बनेंगे? बनेंगे। जो जितने बड़े आदमी का बच्चा होता है वो उतना ज्यादा पावरफुल भी होता है या नहीं होता है? पावरफुल भी होता है। तो ये पाँच तत्व जो देवता के रुप में दिखाये गये हैं, अष्ट देवों में दिखाये गए हैं, ये भी जब पतित होते हैं पूरे आखिरी जन्म में, तो अत्यन्त विनाशकारी बन जाते हैं और सबसे ज्यादा विनाश करती है प्रकृति। रावण के पाँच रुप विनाश नहीं इतना कर पाते हैं, माया इतनी विनाशकारी नहीं है, जितनी प्रकृति विनाशकारी है। ऐसी तमोप्रधान प्रकृति बन जाती है। तो ये पाँच तत्व, प्रकृति का जो प्रधान रूप है पृथ्वी, धरणी माता कहा जाता है, वसुन्धरा कहा जाता है, जगत की अम्बा कहा जाता है, उसके सहयोगी बन जाते हैं और महाविनाश में पूरा साथ देते हैं।
Discussion-1236, Nilanga, Dt.17.10.11
Part-1
Student: Baba, it is said in the path of Bhakti (Bhaktimarg): The feet of Ram are givers of happiness, why it is said so?
Baba: Ram’s feet (caran) are givers of happiness. Feet are called caran. Don’t you know which feet they are? Like, we go somewhere walking with our feet, we reach [somewhere] with our feet. It is said, your intellect will not reach our guruji means your feet like intellect will not reach our guru. So this work of reaching [somewhere] is done by the intellect as well. The intellect runs, it takes a high jump, it walks and some people’s intellect even stops. So the feet are compared with the intellect. So is the intellect of human beings giver of happiness or are the feet like intellect of God is givers of happiness? They have considered that Ram is God. Now, Ram is not God. They consider that Ram of the Silver Age is God. But actually, which Ram is it about? That very soul of Ram passing through the cycle of 84 [births] becomes the Chariot, the permanent Chariot of the Father Shiva in the last birth. Then it is said ‘Ram’s feet are givers of happiness’. They cannot be called givers of happiness in all the other births because it has been said for the other births in the Murli that Ram and Sita will be called the king and queen of Khaadi (coarse type of cotton cloth). What does it mean? Khaadi remains warm in winter and cool in summer, but in rainy season, it becomes heavy, it sticks [to the body], it becomes very dirty in dust and mud this is why it becomes sorrow giving (dukhdaayi). So it is not about Ram, those who are body conscious believe the bodily being himself to be God. So is a bodily being God, are Ram and Krishna God or is ShivBaba God? ShivBaba is God. Shiva’s soul is different and Ram’s soul is different. It is certainly said Ram and Krishna, it is certainly a pair of bulls but they are bulls not ShivBaba. So their feet, Ram and Krishna’s feet are not givers of happiness. Whose feet are givers of happiness? ShivBaba’s feet are givers of happiness.
Question: Someone has asked, why do bad thoughts come [to our mind] even if we don’t wish?
Baba: First thing, bad thoughts come [to your mind] even if you don’t wish because the drama’s reel of 84 births is rotating now. In the 84 births, we have also performed many bad actions for 63 births, now are we climbing up the Ladder or are we coming down the Ladder? We are climbing up from down. So, while climbing up you must have climbed up the Ladder of the Copper Age. Have you climbed up [the Ladder] or not? Have you climbed up? If you have climbed up [the Ladder], then is everything good in the Golden and Silver Ages or is there anything bad as well? If you have climbed the Ladder of the Iron and Copper Ages, then you will be engaged in the thoughts of the Silver Age. Will the reel of joy giving thoughts rotate or will the reel of sorrow giving thoughts rotate? The reel of only joy giving thoughts will rotate. It proves that now we are wandering only in the Copper and Iron Ages. The reel of 63 births is rotating, sometime if we have done good actions, the good reel rotates. We are able to remember [ShivBaba] well and we are also able to make good purushaarth (spiritual effort). When we have done wrong actions, we have got wicked company, then a similar kind of reel rotates. No matter how much we try to make purushaarth and try to remember [ShivBaba] we are not able to remember Him. They say, when we sit in remembrance of Baba we don’t even remember his face, what is the reason of this? Arey! When the reel rotates… in that reel if someone was separated from Baba, if the intellect was engaged with someone else, if he was trapped in someone else’s trap, if he spent the entire life with the one who gives bad company, then will he make you remember his face or will you remember Baba’s face? He will make you remember his face. You will forget Baba's face.
Student: Baba, the Sun is a ball of fire, then how is Saturn his son?
Baba: Why? Is remembrance called fire or not? It is called so, isn’t it? There are 500-700 crore (five-seven billion) souls who make purushaarth, among those purushaarthis will there be someone who remembers constantly or not? Will there be someone who constantly remains in the fire of remembrance or not? There will be. So he is the ball of fire. And will everyone be equal purushaarthi? No. And all those who exist… the entire world is the child of only the One, isn’t it? The whole world is the child of whom? Arey! It is the child of only One seed, isn’t it? [Everyone] is born only from the One seed Father, isn’t it? The entire world is the progeny of Prajapita Brahma, isn’t it? The whole world is the progeny of Prajapita Brahma but are they children of only one mother? Will different soils make a difference or not? So the soil makes a difference. It makes a big difference.
Question: Destruction will take place through the five elements of nature, so there are the five elements in the unlimited here: earth, water, air, fire and sky. So these five elements that are shown in the form of the eight deities, will they support the nature at the time of the great destruction?
Baba: Arey! These are the five forms of nature itself, who? Earth, water, air, fire and sky. Like, whose forms are lust, anger, greed, attachment and ego? These are forms of Ravan. Similarly, these five elements are the forms of nature itself. ‘Pra’ means prakrishth, ‘kriti’ means the work done, they are made in an excellent manner. They too are rejuvenated. They have no beginning. These five elements of nature are also eternal. They too have been given the form of deity. Does every thing of the world become satopradhaan, satosaamaanya, rajo and tamo or not? So will the eight deities also become tamopradhaan or not? They will become. Is the child of a rich man more powerful or not? He is powerful too. So these five elements who have been shown in the form of deities, the eight deities, when they become totally impure in the last birth, they become very destructive and nature does destruction the most. Ravan’s five forms are not able to do so much destruction; Maya is not as destructive as nature. Nature becomes so tamopradhaan! So these five elements become the helpers of the main form of nature [i.e.] earth, who is called Mother Earth, Vasundharaa, the World Mother and give [her] full support in the great destruction. ... (to be continued.)
भाग-1
जिज्ञासु:- बाबा, भक्तिमार्ग में कहा जाता है राम चरण सुखदार्इ। ऐसा क्यों बोला?
बाबा:- राम चरण सुखदार्इ। चरण कहते हैं पाँव को। पाँव कौन से हैं, वो नहीं जानते क्या? जैसे पाँव से कहीं चलकर जाया जाता है, पाँव से पहूँचते हैं। ऐसे कहा जाता है, तुम्हारी बुद्धि हमारे गुरुजी तक नही पहुँचेगी अर्थात तुम्हारे बुद्धि के पाँव हमारे गुरुजी तक नहीं पहुँचेंगे। तो ये पहूँचने का काम बुद्धि भी करती है। बुद्धि दौड़ती भी है, बुद्धि हार्इ जम्प भी लगाती है और बुद्धि चलती भी है और कोर्इ-कोर्इ की बुद्धि रुक भी जाती है। तो बुद्धि से मिसाल दिया जाता है चरण का, पाँव का। तो मनुष्यों कि बुद्धि सुखदार्इ है या भगवान के बुद्धि रुपी चरण सुखदायी है? उन्होंने राम को भगवान समझ लिया है। अब राम तो भगवान है नहीं। वो तो त्रेता के राम को भगवान समझ लेते हैं। लेकिन वास्तव में है तो कौन से राम की बात? वो ही राम वाली आत्मा 84 के चक्र में आते-आते अन्तिम जन्म में शिवबाप का रथ बनती है, मुकर्रर रथ। तब कहा जाता है राम चरण सुखदार्इ। और सभी जन्मों में सुखदार्इ नहीं कहेंगे क्योंकि और जन्म के लिये तो मुरली में बोला है, राम सीता को खादी का राजा रानी कहेंगे। क्या मतलब? खादी ठण्डी में गर्म रहती है और गर्मियों में ठण्डी रहती है; लेकिन बरसात में भारी हो जाती है, चिपकती है, धूल-मिट्टी में बहुत गन्दी हो जाती है, इसलिये दुखदार्इ हो जाती है। तो राम की बात नहीं है। जो देहअभिमानी होते हैं वो देहधारी को ही भगवान समझ बैठते हैं। तो देहधारी भगवान है, राम, कृष्ण भगवान है या शिवबाबा भगवान है? शिवबाबा भगवान है। शिव की आत्मा अलग और राम की आत्मा अलग। राम, कृष्ण कहे तो जाते हैं, ये दो बैलों कि जोड़ी तो हैं, परन्तु ये तो बैल है, ये कोर्इ शिवबाबा नहीं है। तो इनके पाँव, राम, कृष्ण के पाँव सुखदार्इ नहीं हैं। किसके पाँव सुखदार्इ हैं? शिवबाबा के पाँव सुखदार्इ हैं।
प्रश्न:- कोर्इ ने पूछा है - न चाहते हुये भी बुरे संकल्प क्यों आते हैं?
बाबा:- पहली बात, न चाहते हूये भी बूरे संकल्प इसलिये आते हैं, कि अभी 84 जन्मों के ड्रामा की रील घूम रही है। 84 जन्मों में हमने 63 जन्म में बुरे कर्म भी बहुत किये हैं, अभी हम उल्टी सीढ़ी चढ़ रहे हैं या ऊपर से नीचे उतर रहे हैं? नीचे से ऊपर चढ़ रहे हैं। तो चढ़ते-चढ़ते द्वापर की सीढ़ी चढ़ गए होंगे, चढ़ गए या नहीं चढ़ गए? चढ़ गए? अगर चढ़ गए तो सतयुग, त्रेता में अच्छा ही अच्छा होता है कि वहाँ बुरा भी होता है? अगर कलियुग और द्वापर की सीढ़ी चढ़ गए तो त्रेता युग के संकल्पों में रमण करेंगे, सुखदार्इ संकल्पों की रील घूमेगी या दुखदार्इ संकल्पों की रील घूमेगी? सुखदार्इ संकल्पों की ही रील घूमेगी। इससे साबित होता है कि अभी हम कलियुग और द्वापर में ही चक्कर काट रहे हैं। 63 जन्मों की रील घूम् रही है। कभी अच्छे कर्म किये हैं तो अच्छी रील घूमती है। अच्छे से याद भी आती है, अच्छे से पुरुषार्थ भी होता है। जब खराब कर्म किये हैं, दुष्ट संग मिला है तो वो रील ऐसी ही घूमती है। हम कितना भी पुरुषार्थ करना चाहे, कितना भी याद करना चाहे लेकिन याद नहीं आती है। बोलते हैं - बाबा को याद करने बैठने से बाबा का चेहरा भी याद नहीं आता है, इसका कारण क्या है? अरे, रील घूमेगी उस रील घूमने में अगर बाबा से जुदा हो गए होंगे, कोर्इ और से बुद्धि योग चिपकता रहा होगा, कोर्इ और के चक्कर में फॅंस गए, सारा जिन्दगी उसके साथ बिताया जो कुसंग में ले जाने वाला है, तो वो अपने चेहरे की याद दिलायेगा या बाबा का चेहरा याद आयेगा? अपने चेहरे की याद दिलायेगा। बाबा का चेहरा भूल जायेगा।
जिज्ञासु:- बाबा, सूर्य तो अग्नि का गोला है ।
बाबा:- हाँ, जी।
जिज्ञासु:- तो शनि उसका पुत्र कैसे कहा जाता है?
बाबा:- क्यों? याद को अग्नि कहा जाता है या नहीं? कहा जाता है न। 500-700 करोड़ आत्मायें हैं पुरुषार्थ करने वाली, उन पुरुषार्थ करने वालों में कोर्इ निरन्तर याद करने वाला भी होगा या नहीं होगा? निरन्तर याद कि अग्नि में ठहरने वाला होगा या नहीं बनेगा? बनता है। तो वो हो गया आग का गोला। और सब एक जैसे पुरुषार्थी होंगे क्या? नहीं। और सब जो होते हैं, सारी दुनिया तो एक के ही बच्चे हैं न, सारी दुनिया किसका बच्चा है? अरे, एक ही बीज का बच्चा है ना। एक ही बीज बाप से पैदा हुए न। सारी दुनिया प्रजापिता ब्रह्मा की औलाद है न। सारी दुनिया तो प्रजापिता ब्रह्मा की औलाद है लेकिन एक ही अम्मा के बच्चे हैं क्या? धरणी - 2 का फर्क पड़ेगा या नहीं पड़ेगा? तो धरणी का फर्क पड़ जाता है। तो बहुत अन्तर हो जाता है।
प्रश्न:- प्रकृति के पाँच तत्वों से विनाश होगा, तो यहां बेहद में पाँच तत्व हैं- पृथ्वी, जल, वायु, अग्नि और आकाश। तो ये जो पाँच तत्व है, जो अष्ट देवों के रुप में दिखाये जाते हैं तो क्या ये विनाश के टार्इम में, महाविनाश में प्रकृति का साथ देंगे?
बाबा:- अरे! ये प्रकृति के ही पाँच रुप है, कौन? पृथ्वी, जल, वायु, अग्नि, आकाश। जैसे काम, क्रोध, लोभ, मोह, अंहकार ये किसके रुप है? रावण के रुप हैं। ऐसे ही ये पाँच तत्व भी प्रकृति के ही रुप हैं। प्र माने प्रकष्ट, कृति माने किया हुआ कार्य, प्रकष्ट रुप से तैयार होते हैं। ये भी रिजूविनेट होते हैं। इनका आदि नहीं होता है। ये प्रकृति के पाँच तत्व भी अनादि है। इनको भी देवता का रुप दिया गया है। दुनिया की हर चीज सतोप्रधान, सतोसामान्य, रजो और तमो होती है या नहीं होती है? तो अष्ट देव भी तमोप्रधान बनेंगे या नहीं बनेंगे? बनेंगे। जो जितने बड़े आदमी का बच्चा होता है वो उतना ज्यादा पावरफुल भी होता है या नहीं होता है? पावरफुल भी होता है। तो ये पाँच तत्व जो देवता के रुप में दिखाये गये हैं, अष्ट देवों में दिखाये गए हैं, ये भी जब पतित होते हैं पूरे आखिरी जन्म में, तो अत्यन्त विनाशकारी बन जाते हैं और सबसे ज्यादा विनाश करती है प्रकृति। रावण के पाँच रुप विनाश नहीं इतना कर पाते हैं, माया इतनी विनाशकारी नहीं है, जितनी प्रकृति विनाशकारी है। ऐसी तमोप्रधान प्रकृति बन जाती है। तो ये पाँच तत्व, प्रकृति का जो प्रधान रूप है पृथ्वी, धरणी माता कहा जाता है, वसुन्धरा कहा जाता है, जगत की अम्बा कहा जाता है, उसके सहयोगी बन जाते हैं और महाविनाश में पूरा साथ देते हैं।
Discussion-1236, Nilanga, Dt.17.10.11
Part-1
Student: Baba, it is said in the path of Bhakti (Bhaktimarg): The feet of Ram are givers of happiness, why it is said so?
Baba: Ram’s feet (caran) are givers of happiness. Feet are called caran. Don’t you know which feet they are? Like, we go somewhere walking with our feet, we reach [somewhere] with our feet. It is said, your intellect will not reach our guruji means your feet like intellect will not reach our guru. So this work of reaching [somewhere] is done by the intellect as well. The intellect runs, it takes a high jump, it walks and some people’s intellect even stops. So the feet are compared with the intellect. So is the intellect of human beings giver of happiness or are the feet like intellect of God is givers of happiness? They have considered that Ram is God. Now, Ram is not God. They consider that Ram of the Silver Age is God. But actually, which Ram is it about? That very soul of Ram passing through the cycle of 84 [births] becomes the Chariot, the permanent Chariot of the Father Shiva in the last birth. Then it is said ‘Ram’s feet are givers of happiness’. They cannot be called givers of happiness in all the other births because it has been said for the other births in the Murli that Ram and Sita will be called the king and queen of Khaadi (coarse type of cotton cloth). What does it mean? Khaadi remains warm in winter and cool in summer, but in rainy season, it becomes heavy, it sticks [to the body], it becomes very dirty in dust and mud this is why it becomes sorrow giving (dukhdaayi). So it is not about Ram, those who are body conscious believe the bodily being himself to be God. So is a bodily being God, are Ram and Krishna God or is ShivBaba God? ShivBaba is God. Shiva’s soul is different and Ram’s soul is different. It is certainly said Ram and Krishna, it is certainly a pair of bulls but they are bulls not ShivBaba. So their feet, Ram and Krishna’s feet are not givers of happiness. Whose feet are givers of happiness? ShivBaba’s feet are givers of happiness.
Question: Someone has asked, why do bad thoughts come [to our mind] even if we don’t wish?
Baba: First thing, bad thoughts come [to your mind] even if you don’t wish because the drama’s reel of 84 births is rotating now. In the 84 births, we have also performed many bad actions for 63 births, now are we climbing up the Ladder or are we coming down the Ladder? We are climbing up from down. So, while climbing up you must have climbed up the Ladder of the Copper Age. Have you climbed up [the Ladder] or not? Have you climbed up? If you have climbed up [the Ladder], then is everything good in the Golden and Silver Ages or is there anything bad as well? If you have climbed the Ladder of the Iron and Copper Ages, then you will be engaged in the thoughts of the Silver Age. Will the reel of joy giving thoughts rotate or will the reel of sorrow giving thoughts rotate? The reel of only joy giving thoughts will rotate. It proves that now we are wandering only in the Copper and Iron Ages. The reel of 63 births is rotating, sometime if we have done good actions, the good reel rotates. We are able to remember [ShivBaba] well and we are also able to make good purushaarth (spiritual effort). When we have done wrong actions, we have got wicked company, then a similar kind of reel rotates. No matter how much we try to make purushaarth and try to remember [ShivBaba] we are not able to remember Him. They say, when we sit in remembrance of Baba we don’t even remember his face, what is the reason of this? Arey! When the reel rotates… in that reel if someone was separated from Baba, if the intellect was engaged with someone else, if he was trapped in someone else’s trap, if he spent the entire life with the one who gives bad company, then will he make you remember his face or will you remember Baba’s face? He will make you remember his face. You will forget Baba's face.
Student: Baba, the Sun is a ball of fire, then how is Saturn his son?
Baba: Why? Is remembrance called fire or not? It is called so, isn’t it? There are 500-700 crore (five-seven billion) souls who make purushaarth, among those purushaarthis will there be someone who remembers constantly or not? Will there be someone who constantly remains in the fire of remembrance or not? There will be. So he is the ball of fire. And will everyone be equal purushaarthi? No. And all those who exist… the entire world is the child of only the One, isn’t it? The whole world is the child of whom? Arey! It is the child of only One seed, isn’t it? [Everyone] is born only from the One seed Father, isn’t it? The entire world is the progeny of Prajapita Brahma, isn’t it? The whole world is the progeny of Prajapita Brahma but are they children of only one mother? Will different soils make a difference or not? So the soil makes a difference. It makes a big difference.
Question: Destruction will take place through the five elements of nature, so there are the five elements in the unlimited here: earth, water, air, fire and sky. So these five elements that are shown in the form of the eight deities, will they support the nature at the time of the great destruction?
Baba: Arey! These are the five forms of nature itself, who? Earth, water, air, fire and sky. Like, whose forms are lust, anger, greed, attachment and ego? These are forms of Ravan. Similarly, these five elements are the forms of nature itself. ‘Pra’ means prakrishth, ‘kriti’ means the work done, they are made in an excellent manner. They too are rejuvenated. They have no beginning. These five elements of nature are also eternal. They too have been given the form of deity. Does every thing of the world become satopradhaan, satosaamaanya, rajo and tamo or not? So will the eight deities also become tamopradhaan or not? They will become. Is the child of a rich man more powerful or not? He is powerful too. So these five elements who have been shown in the form of deities, the eight deities, when they become totally impure in the last birth, they become very destructive and nature does destruction the most. Ravan’s five forms are not able to do so much destruction; Maya is not as destructive as nature. Nature becomes so tamopradhaan! So these five elements become the helpers of the main form of nature [i.e.] earth, who is called Mother Earth, Vasundharaa, the World Mother and give [her] full support in the great destruction. ... (to be continued.)
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
वार्तालाप-1236, नीलंगा, ता.17.10.11
भाग-2
प्रश्न:- सारे कल्प में ब्राह्मणों के हर आत्मा के सम्बन्ध और सम्पर्क किस आधार पर होते हैं?
बाबा:- अभी संगमयुग में सम्बन्धों और सम्पर्कों कि शूटिंग हो रही है या नहीं? (किसीने कहा – हो रही है।) कैसे? किस आधार पर होती है? (कोर्इ ने कहा - संकल्पों के आधार पर) संकल्पों के आधार पर। संकल्पों से ब्रह्मा ने सृष्टि रची। तो ब्राह्मणों ने अपनी-2 सृष्टि नहीं रची है क्या? हर ब्राह्मण आत्मा एक सितारा है। लोग समझते हैं हर सितारे में एक दुनिया बसी हुर्इ है। लेकिन उन सितारों में दुनिया नहीं बसी हुर्इ है, वहाँ कोर्इ चैतन्य प्राणी नहीं रहते हैं। ये तो ये धरती के चैतन्य सितारे हैं, जिनकी 84 जन्मों की सम्बन्धों, सम्पर्कों, संसर्गियों की अपनी-2 ही अलग-2 दुनिया है। ये संकल्पों के आधार पर हम अपनी दुनिया अभी तैयार कर रहे हैं, शूटिंग हो रही है, रिहर्सल हो रही है, रिकार्डिंग हो रही है। जैसे-2 हम संकल्प करेंगे, वैसे-2 सम्बन्ध और सम्पर्क, संसर्ग बनाते जावेंगे। अब चाहे शिवबाबा के साथ बनाओ 84 जन्मों का हिसाब किताब और चाहे अन्य आत्माओं के साथ बनाओ। अभी हर एक के मुट्ठी में अपना-2 भाग्य शिवबाबा ने दिया हुआ है।
जिज्ञासु:- बाबा, सच्ची गीता खंड-1 में लिखा है, जब सतयुग था तब चढ़ती कला थी और बाकी सब आत्मायें मुक्तिधाम में थी। ये कैसा है? ये मिस प्रिंट है या कुछ राज़ है?
बाबा:- हाँ-2 जो सतयुग में थी आत्मायें, उनकी कलायें बहुत धीमी गति से कम होती हैं। इसलिये ज्यादा उतरती कला नहीं होती है। पूरे सतयुग में सिर्फ कितनी कलायें कम होती हैं? दो कलायें कम होती है। इसलिये बोला चढ़ती कला थी और युगों में उतरती कला होती जाती है। सतयुग में ये नहीं कहेंगे उतरती कला तीव्रता से होती है। बाकी जो आत्मायें हैं, जो उतरती कला वाली थी वो वो कहां थी? जो तीव्र गति से उतरती कला में जाती रहती हैं, वो कहाँ थी? परमधाम में थी। गलत नहीं है, सही है।
जिज्ञासु:- ब्रह्मा के लिए 33 साल, विष्णु के लिए 33 साल, शंकर के लिए 33 साल ।
दूसरा जिज्ञासु:- 100 साल का ड्युरेशन बताया न बाबा।
बाबा:-100 साल, हाँ।
जिज्ञासु:- ब्रह्मा के लिए 33 साल, विष्णु के लिए 33 साल और शंकर के लिए 33 साल।
बाबा:- 33 यर्स हरेक के , हाँ जी, हाँ जी।
जिज्ञासु:- तो ब्रह्मा का खत्म हुआ, शंकर का खत्म हुआ, अभी विष्णु का चल रहा है।
बाबा:- हाँ, ठीक है। अभी विष्णु का कार्यकाल चल रहा है। अभी प्रैक्टिकल कर्मों के हिसाब से पाप और पुण्य बन रहा है। पहले कहते थे अगर संकल्प में पाप होते हैं तो कोर्इ पाप नहीं चढ़ेगा। अभी ऐसा नहीं कहते हैं, अभी संकल्प करते - करते ही प्रैक्टिकल होने लगते हैं। अभी विष्णु का प्रैक्टिकल शुरु हो चुका। प्रैक्टिकल शूटिंग का समय चल रहा है।
जिज्ञासु:- बाबा, एक मुरली में कहा है, ब्रह्मा के संकल्पों से सृष्टि रची , तो संकल्प सूक्ष्म हुए ना। (बाबा – हाँ।) तो पहले - 2 सूक्ष्मवतन प्रैक्टिकल में रचा है। (बाबा –हाँ।) सूक्ष्मवतन है जंक्षन, जहाँ देवताओं और ब्राह्मणों का जन्म होता है।
बाबा:- संगम होता है। (जिज्ञासु-संगम होता है।) हाँ, ब्राह्मण भी इकट्ठे होते हैं, ब्राह्मण आत्मायें भी और जो देव आत्मायें सतयुग में जन्म लेने वाली हैं, जो अभी शरीर छोड़ती जा रही है, बेसिक में उनका पक्का निश्चय बन जाता है। एडवांस ज्ञान कि गहरार्इयों को नहीं पकड़ पाती है। बुद्धू किस्म के देवतायें होते हैं या बुद्धिमान होते हैं? वो बुद्धु किस्म की आत्मायें हैं। तो ऐसी आत्मायें जो शरीर छोड़ करके सूक्ष्मवतन में सूक्ष्म शरीर धारण कर रही हैं, वो देवात्मायें हैं। वो, और हम ब्राह्मण जो एडवांस पार्टी के हैं, ज्ञान कि गहराइयों में जाने वाले हैं, बुद्धिमान बाप के बुद्धिमान बच्चे हैं, बुद्धि चलाने वाले हैं, जब विनाश होगा तो सब अपना - 2 शरीर छोड़कर कहाँ इकट्ठे होंगे? परमधाम जाना शुरु कर देंगे इकट्ठे या कहीं इकट्ठे होते रहेंगे? सूक्ष्मवतन में इकट्ठे होंगे, मिलेंगे।
जिज्ञासु:- सूक्ष्मवतन प्रैक्टिकल में है ही नहीं, ऐसे कहा है?
बाबा:- मन के संकल्पों का ही एक सूक्ष्म स्टेज है, कोर्इ ऊपर नीचे की बात नहीं है।
जिज्ञासु:- बाबा, शंकर को काशी नगरी बहुत प्यारी है। इसका क्या मतलब है?
बाबा:- इसका मतलब ये है कि काश्य से बनता है काशी। काश्य कहते हैं तेज को और तेज आता है अव्यभिचारी याद से और अव्यभिचारी याद काशी के रुप में प्रसिद्ध होने वाली आत्मा जितना करती है उतना दूसरी आत्मायें अव्यभिचारी याद नहीं करती हैं, इसलिये बोला कि शंकर को काशी नगरी अती प्यारी है, जो अव्यभिचारी याद में रहते हैं। और आत्माओं कि कुछ न कुछ व्यभिचारी याद भी बन जाती है।
जिज्ञासु:- बाबा, चन्द्रमा के ऊपर कुछ घर-बार है क्या?
बाबा:- घर बनाना है? वो ब्रह्मकुमार अपना घर कहाँ बना रहे हैं? किसके पास बना रहे हैं? ज्ञान चन्द्रमाँ ब्रह्मा के नजदीक पहूँच रहे हैं, तो ज्ञान चन्द्रमाँ ब्रह्मा के पास उन्हे कोंर्इ प्लाट-व्लाट मिलेगा क्या? वहाँ तो पानी भी नहीं है। वहाँ ज्ञान जल है? ज्ञान जल ही नहीं है। जल तो जीवन है। वहाँ जीवन ही नहीं है, तो वहाँ रह के क्या करेंगे?
प्रश्न:- अन्धा कौन बनते हैं और कौन से संस्कारों से बनते हैं?
बाबा:- अरे! आँख कि गन्दगी ज्यादा फैलायेंगे, ज्यादा व्यभिचारी आँख से काम करेंगे, अती के व्यभिचार में जायेंगे, तो क्या बनेंगे? अन्धे बनेंगे। आँख से थोड़ा बहुत व्यभिचार करेंगे तो आँखें कमजोर हो जायेंगी, चश्मे-वश्मे लग जायेंगे। हिसाब-किताब तो बनेगा न, नहीं बनेगा? बनेगा।
Discussion-1236, Nilanga, Dt.17.10.11
Part-2
Question: On what basis are the relationships and contacts of Brahmins, of every soul in the entire Kalpa (cycle) formed?
Baba: Right now in Confluence Age, is the shooting of relationships and contacts taking place or not? How? On what basis does it takes place? (Someone said: On the basis of thoughts.) On the basis of thoughts. Brahma created the world through thoughts. So have the Brahmins not created their own world? Every Brahmin soul is a star. People believe that there is a world enclosed in every star. But there is not any world enclosed in those (physical) stars, no living creatures live there. It is about these living stars of the earth that have their own different world of relationships, contacts and connections of 84 births. We are preparing our world on the basis of thoughts now, the shooting, rehearsal and recording is going on. We will go on forming relationships contacts and connections according to our thoughts. Now whether you form accounts of 84 births with ShivBaba or with other souls, [it depends on you]. Now ShivBaba has given everyone his fortune in his fist.
Student: Baba, it is written in Sacchi Gita Volume-1, there was the ascending stage in the Golden Age and all the other souls were in the Abode of Liberation, what is this? Is it a misprint or does it have any secret?
Baba: Yes, the souls who were in the Golden Age, their celestial degrees decrease at a very slow pace. This is why there is not much degradation. Just how many celestial degrees decrease in the entire Golden Age? Two celestial degrees decrease. This is why it was said that there was the ascending stage, in other ages the celestial degrees keep decreasing. It will not be said that the celestial degrees decrease rapidly in the Golden Age. All the other souls that were degrading, where were they [at that time]? The [souls] who degrade rapidly, where were they? They were in the Soul World. [The point] is not wrong, it is correct.
Student: Baba, there are 33 years for Brahma, 33 years for Vishnu and 33 years for Shankar.
Another student: Baba, it has been said about the duration of 100 years, hasn’t it?
Baba: Yes, 100 years.
Student: 33 years for Brahma, 33 years for Vishnu and 33 years for Shankar.
Baba: Yes, there are 33 years for each one of them.
Student: So, [the time period] of Brahma and Shankar are over and Vishnu’s [period] is going on now.
Baba: Yes, it is correct. Now Vishnu’s kaaryakaal is going on. Now, you are accumulating sins and merits according to your actions in practice. Earlier, He used to say that if sins are committed through the mind, no sins will be accumulated. Now, He does not say this. Now everything that you think starts happening in practice. Now, Vishnu’s [part] has started in practice. The time of practical shooting is going on.
Student: Baba, it has been said in a Murli: The world was created through Brahma’s thoughts, so the thoughts are subtle, aren’t they?
Baba: Yes.
Student: So, first of all the Subtle Region was created in practice.
Baba: Yes.
Student: The Subtle Region is a junction where the birth of the deities and Brahmins takes place.
Baba: The Confluence takes place. The Brahmins, the Brahmin souls gather, and the deity souls who will be born in the Golden Age, who are leaving their body now, they have a firm faith in the basic [knowledge]. They are unable to grasp the depth of the advance knowledge. Are they the ignorant type of deities or are they intelligent? They are ignorant type of souls. So such souls who are leaving their body and taking on subtle body in the Subtle Region, they are the deity souls. [It was said about] them. And we Brahmins who are of the Advance Party, who go into the depth of knowledge, we are the intelligent children of the Intelligent Father, we use our intellect. When the destruction takes place, where will everyone gather leaving their body? Will they start going to the Supreme Abode together or will they keep gathering somewhere? They will gather and meet in the Subtle Region.
Student: It has been said that there is nothing like the Subtle Region in practice.
Baba: It is a subtle stage of the thoughts of the mind itself, it is not about [the Subtle Region being] somewhere above or below.
Student: Baba, Kashi nagri (the city of Kashi) is very dear to Shankar. What does this mean?
Baba: It means Kashi is made from kaashya (ardour). Ardour is called kaashya and ardour comes from unadulterated remembrance. And other souls don’t have unadulterated remembrance to the extent the soul who becomes famous as Kashi has. This is why it was said that Kashi nagri, who stays in the unadulterated remembrance is very dear to Shankar, the remembrance of other souls also becomes adulterous to some extent.
Student: Baba, are there any houses on the Moon?
Baba: Do you want to make a house there? Where and near whom are those Brahmakumars making their houses? They are reaching near the Moon of knowledge Brahma, so will they get any plot from Brahma, the Moon of knowledge? There is not even water there. Is there water of knowledge there? There isn’t the water of knowledge [there] either. Water is life. When there is no life there, what will they do living there?
Question: Who become blind and because of which sanskaars do they become this?
Baba: Arey! If someone spreads dirt through the eyes more, if he commits adulterous actions through the eyes more, if he reaches the extremity of adultery, then what will he become? He will become blind. If someone commits adulterous actions through the eyes to a lesser extent, then his eyes will become weak, he will have to wear glasses. Karmic accounts will be formed, won’t they? Won’t they be formed? They will be formed. ... (to be continued.)
भाग-2
प्रश्न:- सारे कल्प में ब्राह्मणों के हर आत्मा के सम्बन्ध और सम्पर्क किस आधार पर होते हैं?
बाबा:- अभी संगमयुग में सम्बन्धों और सम्पर्कों कि शूटिंग हो रही है या नहीं? (किसीने कहा – हो रही है।) कैसे? किस आधार पर होती है? (कोर्इ ने कहा - संकल्पों के आधार पर) संकल्पों के आधार पर। संकल्पों से ब्रह्मा ने सृष्टि रची। तो ब्राह्मणों ने अपनी-2 सृष्टि नहीं रची है क्या? हर ब्राह्मण आत्मा एक सितारा है। लोग समझते हैं हर सितारे में एक दुनिया बसी हुर्इ है। लेकिन उन सितारों में दुनिया नहीं बसी हुर्इ है, वहाँ कोर्इ चैतन्य प्राणी नहीं रहते हैं। ये तो ये धरती के चैतन्य सितारे हैं, जिनकी 84 जन्मों की सम्बन्धों, सम्पर्कों, संसर्गियों की अपनी-2 ही अलग-2 दुनिया है। ये संकल्पों के आधार पर हम अपनी दुनिया अभी तैयार कर रहे हैं, शूटिंग हो रही है, रिहर्सल हो रही है, रिकार्डिंग हो रही है। जैसे-2 हम संकल्प करेंगे, वैसे-2 सम्बन्ध और सम्पर्क, संसर्ग बनाते जावेंगे। अब चाहे शिवबाबा के साथ बनाओ 84 जन्मों का हिसाब किताब और चाहे अन्य आत्माओं के साथ बनाओ। अभी हर एक के मुट्ठी में अपना-2 भाग्य शिवबाबा ने दिया हुआ है।
जिज्ञासु:- बाबा, सच्ची गीता खंड-1 में लिखा है, जब सतयुग था तब चढ़ती कला थी और बाकी सब आत्मायें मुक्तिधाम में थी। ये कैसा है? ये मिस प्रिंट है या कुछ राज़ है?
बाबा:- हाँ-2 जो सतयुग में थी आत्मायें, उनकी कलायें बहुत धीमी गति से कम होती हैं। इसलिये ज्यादा उतरती कला नहीं होती है। पूरे सतयुग में सिर्फ कितनी कलायें कम होती हैं? दो कलायें कम होती है। इसलिये बोला चढ़ती कला थी और युगों में उतरती कला होती जाती है। सतयुग में ये नहीं कहेंगे उतरती कला तीव्रता से होती है। बाकी जो आत्मायें हैं, जो उतरती कला वाली थी वो वो कहां थी? जो तीव्र गति से उतरती कला में जाती रहती हैं, वो कहाँ थी? परमधाम में थी। गलत नहीं है, सही है।
जिज्ञासु:- ब्रह्मा के लिए 33 साल, विष्णु के लिए 33 साल, शंकर के लिए 33 साल ।
दूसरा जिज्ञासु:- 100 साल का ड्युरेशन बताया न बाबा।
बाबा:-100 साल, हाँ।
जिज्ञासु:- ब्रह्मा के लिए 33 साल, विष्णु के लिए 33 साल और शंकर के लिए 33 साल।
बाबा:- 33 यर्स हरेक के , हाँ जी, हाँ जी।
जिज्ञासु:- तो ब्रह्मा का खत्म हुआ, शंकर का खत्म हुआ, अभी विष्णु का चल रहा है।
बाबा:- हाँ, ठीक है। अभी विष्णु का कार्यकाल चल रहा है। अभी प्रैक्टिकल कर्मों के हिसाब से पाप और पुण्य बन रहा है। पहले कहते थे अगर संकल्प में पाप होते हैं तो कोर्इ पाप नहीं चढ़ेगा। अभी ऐसा नहीं कहते हैं, अभी संकल्प करते - करते ही प्रैक्टिकल होने लगते हैं। अभी विष्णु का प्रैक्टिकल शुरु हो चुका। प्रैक्टिकल शूटिंग का समय चल रहा है।
जिज्ञासु:- बाबा, एक मुरली में कहा है, ब्रह्मा के संकल्पों से सृष्टि रची , तो संकल्प सूक्ष्म हुए ना। (बाबा – हाँ।) तो पहले - 2 सूक्ष्मवतन प्रैक्टिकल में रचा है। (बाबा –हाँ।) सूक्ष्मवतन है जंक्षन, जहाँ देवताओं और ब्राह्मणों का जन्म होता है।
बाबा:- संगम होता है। (जिज्ञासु-संगम होता है।) हाँ, ब्राह्मण भी इकट्ठे होते हैं, ब्राह्मण आत्मायें भी और जो देव आत्मायें सतयुग में जन्म लेने वाली हैं, जो अभी शरीर छोड़ती जा रही है, बेसिक में उनका पक्का निश्चय बन जाता है। एडवांस ज्ञान कि गहरार्इयों को नहीं पकड़ पाती है। बुद्धू किस्म के देवतायें होते हैं या बुद्धिमान होते हैं? वो बुद्धु किस्म की आत्मायें हैं। तो ऐसी आत्मायें जो शरीर छोड़ करके सूक्ष्मवतन में सूक्ष्म शरीर धारण कर रही हैं, वो देवात्मायें हैं। वो, और हम ब्राह्मण जो एडवांस पार्टी के हैं, ज्ञान कि गहराइयों में जाने वाले हैं, बुद्धिमान बाप के बुद्धिमान बच्चे हैं, बुद्धि चलाने वाले हैं, जब विनाश होगा तो सब अपना - 2 शरीर छोड़कर कहाँ इकट्ठे होंगे? परमधाम जाना शुरु कर देंगे इकट्ठे या कहीं इकट्ठे होते रहेंगे? सूक्ष्मवतन में इकट्ठे होंगे, मिलेंगे।
जिज्ञासु:- सूक्ष्मवतन प्रैक्टिकल में है ही नहीं, ऐसे कहा है?
बाबा:- मन के संकल्पों का ही एक सूक्ष्म स्टेज है, कोर्इ ऊपर नीचे की बात नहीं है।
जिज्ञासु:- बाबा, शंकर को काशी नगरी बहुत प्यारी है। इसका क्या मतलब है?
बाबा:- इसका मतलब ये है कि काश्य से बनता है काशी। काश्य कहते हैं तेज को और तेज आता है अव्यभिचारी याद से और अव्यभिचारी याद काशी के रुप में प्रसिद्ध होने वाली आत्मा जितना करती है उतना दूसरी आत्मायें अव्यभिचारी याद नहीं करती हैं, इसलिये बोला कि शंकर को काशी नगरी अती प्यारी है, जो अव्यभिचारी याद में रहते हैं। और आत्माओं कि कुछ न कुछ व्यभिचारी याद भी बन जाती है।
जिज्ञासु:- बाबा, चन्द्रमा के ऊपर कुछ घर-बार है क्या?
बाबा:- घर बनाना है? वो ब्रह्मकुमार अपना घर कहाँ बना रहे हैं? किसके पास बना रहे हैं? ज्ञान चन्द्रमाँ ब्रह्मा के नजदीक पहूँच रहे हैं, तो ज्ञान चन्द्रमाँ ब्रह्मा के पास उन्हे कोंर्इ प्लाट-व्लाट मिलेगा क्या? वहाँ तो पानी भी नहीं है। वहाँ ज्ञान जल है? ज्ञान जल ही नहीं है। जल तो जीवन है। वहाँ जीवन ही नहीं है, तो वहाँ रह के क्या करेंगे?
प्रश्न:- अन्धा कौन बनते हैं और कौन से संस्कारों से बनते हैं?
बाबा:- अरे! आँख कि गन्दगी ज्यादा फैलायेंगे, ज्यादा व्यभिचारी आँख से काम करेंगे, अती के व्यभिचार में जायेंगे, तो क्या बनेंगे? अन्धे बनेंगे। आँख से थोड़ा बहुत व्यभिचार करेंगे तो आँखें कमजोर हो जायेंगी, चश्मे-वश्मे लग जायेंगे। हिसाब-किताब तो बनेगा न, नहीं बनेगा? बनेगा।
Discussion-1236, Nilanga, Dt.17.10.11
Part-2
Question: On what basis are the relationships and contacts of Brahmins, of every soul in the entire Kalpa (cycle) formed?
Baba: Right now in Confluence Age, is the shooting of relationships and contacts taking place or not? How? On what basis does it takes place? (Someone said: On the basis of thoughts.) On the basis of thoughts. Brahma created the world through thoughts. So have the Brahmins not created their own world? Every Brahmin soul is a star. People believe that there is a world enclosed in every star. But there is not any world enclosed in those (physical) stars, no living creatures live there. It is about these living stars of the earth that have their own different world of relationships, contacts and connections of 84 births. We are preparing our world on the basis of thoughts now, the shooting, rehearsal and recording is going on. We will go on forming relationships contacts and connections according to our thoughts. Now whether you form accounts of 84 births with ShivBaba or with other souls, [it depends on you]. Now ShivBaba has given everyone his fortune in his fist.
Student: Baba, it is written in Sacchi Gita Volume-1, there was the ascending stage in the Golden Age and all the other souls were in the Abode of Liberation, what is this? Is it a misprint or does it have any secret?
Baba: Yes, the souls who were in the Golden Age, their celestial degrees decrease at a very slow pace. This is why there is not much degradation. Just how many celestial degrees decrease in the entire Golden Age? Two celestial degrees decrease. This is why it was said that there was the ascending stage, in other ages the celestial degrees keep decreasing. It will not be said that the celestial degrees decrease rapidly in the Golden Age. All the other souls that were degrading, where were they [at that time]? The [souls] who degrade rapidly, where were they? They were in the Soul World. [The point] is not wrong, it is correct.
Student: Baba, there are 33 years for Brahma, 33 years for Vishnu and 33 years for Shankar.
Another student: Baba, it has been said about the duration of 100 years, hasn’t it?
Baba: Yes, 100 years.
Student: 33 years for Brahma, 33 years for Vishnu and 33 years for Shankar.
Baba: Yes, there are 33 years for each one of them.
Student: So, [the time period] of Brahma and Shankar are over and Vishnu’s [period] is going on now.
Baba: Yes, it is correct. Now Vishnu’s kaaryakaal is going on. Now, you are accumulating sins and merits according to your actions in practice. Earlier, He used to say that if sins are committed through the mind, no sins will be accumulated. Now, He does not say this. Now everything that you think starts happening in practice. Now, Vishnu’s [part] has started in practice. The time of practical shooting is going on.
Student: Baba, it has been said in a Murli: The world was created through Brahma’s thoughts, so the thoughts are subtle, aren’t they?
Baba: Yes.
Student: So, first of all the Subtle Region was created in practice.
Baba: Yes.
Student: The Subtle Region is a junction where the birth of the deities and Brahmins takes place.
Baba: The Confluence takes place. The Brahmins, the Brahmin souls gather, and the deity souls who will be born in the Golden Age, who are leaving their body now, they have a firm faith in the basic [knowledge]. They are unable to grasp the depth of the advance knowledge. Are they the ignorant type of deities or are they intelligent? They are ignorant type of souls. So such souls who are leaving their body and taking on subtle body in the Subtle Region, they are the deity souls. [It was said about] them. And we Brahmins who are of the Advance Party, who go into the depth of knowledge, we are the intelligent children of the Intelligent Father, we use our intellect. When the destruction takes place, where will everyone gather leaving their body? Will they start going to the Supreme Abode together or will they keep gathering somewhere? They will gather and meet in the Subtle Region.
Student: It has been said that there is nothing like the Subtle Region in practice.
Baba: It is a subtle stage of the thoughts of the mind itself, it is not about [the Subtle Region being] somewhere above or below.
Student: Baba, Kashi nagri (the city of Kashi) is very dear to Shankar. What does this mean?
Baba: It means Kashi is made from kaashya (ardour). Ardour is called kaashya and ardour comes from unadulterated remembrance. And other souls don’t have unadulterated remembrance to the extent the soul who becomes famous as Kashi has. This is why it was said that Kashi nagri, who stays in the unadulterated remembrance is very dear to Shankar, the remembrance of other souls also becomes adulterous to some extent.
Student: Baba, are there any houses on the Moon?
Baba: Do you want to make a house there? Where and near whom are those Brahmakumars making their houses? They are reaching near the Moon of knowledge Brahma, so will they get any plot from Brahma, the Moon of knowledge? There is not even water there. Is there water of knowledge there? There isn’t the water of knowledge [there] either. Water is life. When there is no life there, what will they do living there?
Question: Who become blind and because of which sanskaars do they become this?
Baba: Arey! If someone spreads dirt through the eyes more, if he commits adulterous actions through the eyes more, if he reaches the extremity of adultery, then what will he become? He will become blind. If someone commits adulterous actions through the eyes to a lesser extent, then his eyes will become weak, he will have to wear glasses. Karmic accounts will be formed, won’t they? Won’t they be formed? They will be formed. ... (to be continued.)
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
वार्तालाप-1236, नीलंगा, ता.17.10.11
भाग-3
प्रश्न:- लूला कैसे बनते हैं?
बाबा:- बाँह टूट जाती है न, बाँह कहते हैं सहयोगियों को, जो अच्छे काम में कोर्इ सहयोगी बनते हैं, कोर्इ बुरे काम में सहयोगी बनते हैं, तो जो लगातार बुरे कामों में सहयोगी बनेंगे तो रिजल्ट क्या होगा? उनकी बाँह टूट जावेगी।
प्रश्न:- चोर कैसे बनते हैं?
बाबा:- अरे! चोरों का संग करेंगे तो चोर बन जाते हैं। चोरी के संस्कार पक्के हो जाते हैं।
प्रश्न :- डकैत कैसे बनते हैं?
उत्तर:- डकैतों का संग करेंगे तो क्या बन जावेंगे ? डकैत बन जावेंगे।
प्रश्न:- मेहतर कैसे बनते हैं?
बाबा:- (कोर्इ ने कहा – गन्द उठाते हैं।) हाँ, वो तो स्थूल गन्द है, लेकिन वो स्थूल गन्द जो है वो उठाने का निमित्त कैसे बने? दूसरों की बहुत ग्लानी करते हैं, तो क्या बनते हैं? मेहतर बनते हैं। जो ज्यादा दूसरों की व्यर्थ ग्लानी करता है... ग्लानी माने? जो उसने पाप नहीं किया है, वो पाप की बातें सुनाते हैं कि इसने ऐसा पाप किया, ये ऐसा पापी है, यह ऐसा गंदा है, व्यर्थ की बातें सुनाते हैं दूसरों को, तो क्या बनते हैं? मेहतर बनते हैं।
प्रश्न:- आतंकवादी?
बाबा:- अरे! स्थूल में जो आतंक फैलायेंगे तो उनके संस्कार क्या पड़ जावेंगे? कोर्इ ऐसे होते हैं फालतू की अफवाहे फैलाते रहते हैं। तो फालतू की अफवाह फैलाने से क्या होगा? आदमी में आतंक बढ़ेगा या नहीं बढ़ेगा? तो अगले जन्म में फिर आतंकवादी बनेंगे।
प्रश्न:- वैश्या बनते हैं।
बाबा:- वैश्या बनाने वाले पुरुष होते हैं या स्त्रियाँ होती हैं? तो कोर्इ पुरुष ऐसे होते हैं जो ज्यादा कन्याओं, माताओं को पोल्यूट करते हैं, तो उसका रिजल्ट उनको अगले जन्म में क्या मिलेगा? वैश्या बनेंगे।
प्रश्न:- बाबा ज्ञान में चलने वाली आत्मा अगर घर में अशांति का माहौल पैदा कर देती है और परिवार को बहुत दु:ख देती है, तो उन आत्माओं का क्या हाल होगा?
बाबा:- अरे लौकिक दुनिया में कोर्इ अगर उल्टा काम करते हैं, तो एक गुना पाप चढ़ता है और ज्ञान लेने के बाद, बाप का बच्चा बनने के बाद अगर कोर्इ उल्टा काम करते हैं, पाप कर्म करते हैं, श्रीमत के बरखिलाफ चलते हैं तो कितना गुना पाप चढ़ता है? सौ गुना पाप चढ़ता है। कितना घाटा पड़ेगा? बहुत घाटा पड़ जाता है।
जिज्ञासु:- अष्टदेव पाँच देवताओं के रुप में गाये जाते हैं?
बाबा:- पाँच देवता नहीं, देवतायें तो पूरे आठ हैं, लेकिन उनमें पाँच पाण्डव पक्के हैं। जैसे पाँच पाण्डव कहे जाते हैं, जो स्वदेशी हैं, तो पाँच पाण्डव कहे जाते हैं। ऐसे ही विधर्मी भी तो हैं, उन विधर्मियों में, विदेशियों में, कोर्इ ऐसे हैं जो नास्तिक हो पड़े हैं। जैसे आर्य समाज और रशियन्स, तो वो अलग हो जाते हैं।
जिज्ञासु:- बाबा, गीता में श्लोक आया है-कविं पुराणमनुशासितारमणोरणीयांसमनुस्मरेद्य: सर्वस्य धातारमचिंत्यरूपमादित्यवर्णं तमसः परस्तात। इसका अर्थ क्या है ?
बाबा:- हम संस्कृत तो जानते नहीं, आप संस्कृत का पहले हिन्दी अर्थ बता दो फिर हम उसका बेहद में अर्थ बतायें। बताओ? हम संस्कृत नहीं पढ़े। कहाँ तक भाषायें पढ़ेंगे? बाबा कहते हैं भाषायें तुम बच्चे पढ़ो, क्योंकि दूसरों की सेवा करनी है। संस्कृत भी पढ़ो, अंग्रेजी भी पढ़ो, फारसी भी पढ़ो, उर्दु भी पढ़ो। सारी दुनिया की सेवा करनी है न, तो तुम सब भाषायें सीखों ताकि तुम्हारा भाग्य ज्यादा बने। तुमको विश्व कल्याणकारी बनना है। मैं थोड़े ही सारी भाषाये सीखुंगा। हाँ, तो बोलो।
(जिज्ञासु ने कुछ कहा।) क्या हुआ? (जिज्ञासु- अर्थ बताओ।) अर्थ... संस्कृत हम जानते ही नहीं न। बाबा तो बेहद का बाबा है, तो बेहद के अर्थ बतायेगा, या संस्कृत... बाबा तो संस्कृत क्या बोलते हैं? सुनन्ती, कथन्ती, भागन्ती। बाबा ये संस्कृत जानते हैं, बस। बाकी अगर थोड़ी बहुत संस्कृत जानते हैं तो प्रजापिता जानते हैं या ब्रह्मा जानते हैं। आपको जबाब किससे लेना है? (जिज्ञासु- शिवबाबा से।) हाँ फिर। शास्त्रों के एक-एक श्लोक ले करके बैठ जाओ सब लोग और पूछो, बाबा इसका अर्थ क्या है।
प्रश्न:- संगम का अन्त अर्थात कुछ समय पहले से ही प्रत्यक्षता जरुर होगी।
बाबा:- उसको संगम का अंत नही कहेंगे हमारे पुरुषार्थ का अन्त होगा। संगम का अन्त हो जायेगा तो कौन सा युग शुरु हो जायेगा? सतयुग शुरु हो जायेगा। फिर प्रत्यक्षता की बात नहीं रहेगी। तो प्रत्यक्षता का पार्ट बजाते हुये अपना वर्तमान आत्मा के, अपना वर्तमान माला के मणके का नम्बर और भविष्य राज्य का स्वरुप दोनों प्रत्यक्ष होंगे, वो कैसे होगा? जो बुद्धिमान बाप के बुद्धिमान बच्चे होंगे, रुद्रमाला के मणके होंगे, बीज रुप स्टेज में, सूक्ष्मस्टेज में टिकने वाले होंगे वो अपने अनेक जन्मों को पहले प्रत्यक्ष करेंगे या बेसिक में चलने वाले पहले प्रत्यक्ष करेंगे? जो सूक्ष्मस्टेज में टिकना ही नहीं जानते, मनन, चिंतन, मंथन जिनका चलता ही नहीं और बाहर की दुनिया वाले, दूसरे धर्मों की तो बात ही दूसरी है, वो तो और ही पीछे के हो गये, तो सारा मदार प्रत्यक्षता का आता है आत्मा को सूक्ष्मस्टेज धारण कराने की बात पर। जितना स्मृति स्वरुप में हम अपनी आत्मा के स्वरुप को याद करेंगे कि मैं आत्मा अति सूक्ष्म ज्योति बिन्दु हूँ , उतनी हमारी मन, बुद्धि सूक्ष्म बनेगी और एक-एक बात की गहरार्इ को पकड़ती जावेगी। अपने पार्ट के भी गहरार्इ को पकड़ेगी और अपने जो नजदीक है जन्म - जन्मान्तर के उनके पार्ट के गहरार्इ को भी पकड़ेगी।
सबसे जास्ती नजदीक होते हैं पति और पत्नि। तो जन्म - जन्मान्तर 21 जन्म का कोर्इ हिसाब किताब भी होगा, उस हिसाब किताब के आधार पर सबके नम्बर डिक्लैर होते जावेंगे। स्वंय ही स्वयं को नम्बर डिक्लैर होगा। दूसरी आत्माओं को नम्बर डिक्लैर नहीं होगा। या तो उनसे कनेक्टेड जो भी उनको सिखाने वाले हैं गुरु, उनको पता चलेगा पहले। जैसे माला में 108 मणके हैं,9 ग्रुप है 12-12 के, तो 9 धर्म वाले जो मुखिया हैं अपने ग्रुप के 12 मणकों का पहले वो जानकारी करेंगे और उस मणके को भी जानकारी होगी जो उनसे कनेक्टेड है। अभी पहले नम्बर किसका लगेगा? सूर्यवंशियों का नम्बर लगेगा। सूर्य पहले प्रत्यक्ष होगा और सूर्य के साथ-2? (किसीने कहा – सूर्यवंशी।) हाँ, सूर्यवंशी बच्चे तो प्रत्यक्ष होंगे, लेकिन वो कितने होंगे? जो आठ है, अष्टदेव कहे जाते हैं... अष्टदेवों में भी नम्बरवार है, कोर्इ चन्द्रवंश का मुखिया, कोर्इ बौद्धि वंश का मुखिया, मुखिया न कहें पूर्वज कहें। अलग-2 धर्मों के अलग - 2 पूर्वज हैं, वो पूर्वज ज्यादा से ज्यादा सूक्ष्मस्टेज को प्राप्त करते हैं। फिर उनसे कनेक्टेड और जो आत्मायें हैं उनको अपना - 2 पता चलता है। अभी संग के रंग में आ रहे हैं या नहीं आ रहे हैं? तो उस संग के रंग के आधार पर उनका मनन, चिंतन, मंथन चलता रहेगा। और अपने - 2 पार्ट प्रत्यक्ष होते रहेंगे।
Discussion-1236, Nilanga, Dt.17.10.11
Part-3
Question: How do [people] become crippled?
Baba: The arm breaks, doesn’t it? Helpers are called arms. Some become helpful in good works and some become helpful in bad works, so those who continuously become helpful in bad works, what will be their result? Their arm will break.
Question: How do people become thieves?
Baba: Arey! Someone becomes a thief by taking the company of thieves. The sanskaars of stealing become firm.
Question: How do people become dacoits?
Baba: If someone takes the company of dacoits, what will he become? He will become a dacoit.
Question: How does someone become a sweeper?
Baba: (Someone said: They clean dirt.) Yes, that is the physical dirt, but how did they become instruments to clean that dirt? When someone defames others a lot, what does he become? He becomes a sweeper. The one who pointlessly defames others a lot… what does defamation mean? [It means,] someone has not committed a sin, but [a person] tells wrong things about him [to others]: ‘He has committed this sin, he is such a sinful person, he is so dirty’; he narrates wasteful things to others, so what does he become? He becomes a sweeper.
Question: [What about] terrorist?
Baba: Arey, those who spread terrorism physically, what kind of sanskaars will they develop? There are some [people] who spread rumours pointlessly, so what will happen by spreading rumours pointlessly? Will terror increase in a person or not? So they will become terrorists in the next birth.
Question: [Some women] become prostitutes…
Baba: Is it men or women who make prostitutes? There are some men who pollute virgins and mothers a lot, so what result will they get in the next birth? They will become prostitutes.
Question: Baba, if a knowledgeable soul creates a restless atmosphere at home and gives a lot of sorrow to the family, what will happen to such souls?
Baba: Arey! If someone does wrong actions in the lokik world, he accumulates one time sin and if someone does wrong actions, sinful actions, acts against Shrimat after taking knowledge and becoming the child of the Father, then how many times sins does he accumulate? He accumulates hundred times sins. How much loss will he incur? He incurs a great loss.
Student: Baba, the eight deities are shown in the form of five deities.
Baba: Not five deities, there are eight deities in total, but among them the five Pandavas (descendants of Pandu) are firm. Just like it is said the five Pandavas; they are swadeshi (those who belong to the country Bharat), so they are called the five Pandavas. Likewise there are the vidharmis as well; among those vidharmis and videshis (foreigners) some have become Atheist. For example, the Arya Samaj and the Russians, so they are different.
Student: Baba, there is a shloka in the Gita: Kavim puraanamanushaasitaaramanoraniiyaansamanusmaredyah sarvasya dhaataaramacintyaruupamaadityavarnam tamasah parastaat. What is its meaning?
Baba: I don’t know Sanskrit, first tell Me the Hindi meaning of Sanskrit, then I will tell its unlimited meaning. Tell Me. I have not studied Sanskrit. How many languages will I study? Baba says: you children should learn languages because you have to serve others. Study Sanskrit, English, Persian as well as Urdu, you have to serve the whole world, haven’t you? So, learn all languages, so that you earn great fortune. You have to become world benefactor. I will not learn all languages. Yes, speak up.
Baba: (Student said something.) What happened? (Student: Tell me the meaning.) The meaning… I do not know Sanskrit at all. Baba is the unlimited Baba, so will He tell [you] the unlimited meanings… what Sanskrit does Baba speak? Sunanti, kathanti, bhaaganti . Baba knows just this Sanskrit. As for the rest, if there is someone who knows a little Sanskrit it is Prajapita or Brahma. From whom do you want to take your answer? (Student: From ShivBaba.) Yes, then? (Ironically:) Each of you, take out one shloka from the scriptures and ask: Baba, what does it mean?
Question: [The sign of] the end of the Confluence Age means, the revelation will definitely take place some time before [it ends].
Baba: It will not be called the end of the Confluence Age; it will be the end of making purushaarth [by us]. If the Confluence Age ends, which age will start? The Golden Age will start. Then there will not be the question of the revelation.
Question: So, while playing the role of revelation, our present rank as a bead of the rosary and the form of our kingdom in future, both will be revealed, how will that happen?
Baba: Those who are the intelligent children of the intelligent Father, the beads of the Rudramaalaa (rosary of Rudra), those who will be the ones who stabilize in the seed form stage, the subtle stage, will they reveal their many births first or will those who are in the basic [knowledge] , the ones who do not know how to stabilize in the subtle stage at all, those who don’t think and churn at all reveal [their many births] first? And as regards the people of the outside world, those belonging to other religions, it is a totally different question about them. They are the much latter ones [to be revealed] . So the revelation entirely depends on making the soul attain a subtle stage. The more we remember the form of our soul [thinking:] I, the soul am a very subtle point of light , the more our mind and intellect will become subtle and it will grasp the depth of each and every topic. It will grasp the depth of its own part as well as the part of those who are close to it for many births.
A husband and wife are the closest ones. So they will also have some karmic accounts for many births, for 21 births. Based on those karmic accounts the ranks of everyone will be declared. Someone’s rank will be known to him alone, the other souls will not come to know his rank. Or else the gurus who are his teachers, who are connected to him, they will come to know of [his rank] first. For example, there are 108 beads in the rosary. There are nine groups of 12 [beads] each. So as regards the leaders of the nine religions, the 12 beads of his group will come to know [his rank] first and that bead (the leader) connected to them will also come to know [his rank]. Now, who will be the first [to know their ranks] ? The Suryavanshis . The Sun will be revealed first and along with the Sun…? (Students: The Suryavanshis.) Yes, the Suryavanshi children will certainly be revealed, but how many will they be? The eight [souls], who are called Ashta dev (the eight deities) [will be revealed]. Even among the eight deities, they are number wise . Someone is the leader of Candravansh (the Moon dynasty), someone is the leader of Bauddhivansh (the Buddhist dynasty); not leaders [but] they can be called ancestors (puurvaj). Different religions have different ancestors; those ancestors attain the most subtle stage. Then the other souls connected to them come to know about their [individual ranks]. Now, are they coming in the colour of their company or not? (Someone said: They are.) So their thinking and churning will keep taking place based on that colour of the company and their parts will keep being revealed. ... (to be continued.)
भाग-3
प्रश्न:- लूला कैसे बनते हैं?
बाबा:- बाँह टूट जाती है न, बाँह कहते हैं सहयोगियों को, जो अच्छे काम में कोर्इ सहयोगी बनते हैं, कोर्इ बुरे काम में सहयोगी बनते हैं, तो जो लगातार बुरे कामों में सहयोगी बनेंगे तो रिजल्ट क्या होगा? उनकी बाँह टूट जावेगी।
प्रश्न:- चोर कैसे बनते हैं?
बाबा:- अरे! चोरों का संग करेंगे तो चोर बन जाते हैं। चोरी के संस्कार पक्के हो जाते हैं।
प्रश्न :- डकैत कैसे बनते हैं?
उत्तर:- डकैतों का संग करेंगे तो क्या बन जावेंगे ? डकैत बन जावेंगे।
प्रश्न:- मेहतर कैसे बनते हैं?
बाबा:- (कोर्इ ने कहा – गन्द उठाते हैं।) हाँ, वो तो स्थूल गन्द है, लेकिन वो स्थूल गन्द जो है वो उठाने का निमित्त कैसे बने? दूसरों की बहुत ग्लानी करते हैं, तो क्या बनते हैं? मेहतर बनते हैं। जो ज्यादा दूसरों की व्यर्थ ग्लानी करता है... ग्लानी माने? जो उसने पाप नहीं किया है, वो पाप की बातें सुनाते हैं कि इसने ऐसा पाप किया, ये ऐसा पापी है, यह ऐसा गंदा है, व्यर्थ की बातें सुनाते हैं दूसरों को, तो क्या बनते हैं? मेहतर बनते हैं।
प्रश्न:- आतंकवादी?
बाबा:- अरे! स्थूल में जो आतंक फैलायेंगे तो उनके संस्कार क्या पड़ जावेंगे? कोर्इ ऐसे होते हैं फालतू की अफवाहे फैलाते रहते हैं। तो फालतू की अफवाह फैलाने से क्या होगा? आदमी में आतंक बढ़ेगा या नहीं बढ़ेगा? तो अगले जन्म में फिर आतंकवादी बनेंगे।
प्रश्न:- वैश्या बनते हैं।
बाबा:- वैश्या बनाने वाले पुरुष होते हैं या स्त्रियाँ होती हैं? तो कोर्इ पुरुष ऐसे होते हैं जो ज्यादा कन्याओं, माताओं को पोल्यूट करते हैं, तो उसका रिजल्ट उनको अगले जन्म में क्या मिलेगा? वैश्या बनेंगे।
प्रश्न:- बाबा ज्ञान में चलने वाली आत्मा अगर घर में अशांति का माहौल पैदा कर देती है और परिवार को बहुत दु:ख देती है, तो उन आत्माओं का क्या हाल होगा?
बाबा:- अरे लौकिक दुनिया में कोर्इ अगर उल्टा काम करते हैं, तो एक गुना पाप चढ़ता है और ज्ञान लेने के बाद, बाप का बच्चा बनने के बाद अगर कोर्इ उल्टा काम करते हैं, पाप कर्म करते हैं, श्रीमत के बरखिलाफ चलते हैं तो कितना गुना पाप चढ़ता है? सौ गुना पाप चढ़ता है। कितना घाटा पड़ेगा? बहुत घाटा पड़ जाता है।
जिज्ञासु:- अष्टदेव पाँच देवताओं के रुप में गाये जाते हैं?
बाबा:- पाँच देवता नहीं, देवतायें तो पूरे आठ हैं, लेकिन उनमें पाँच पाण्डव पक्के हैं। जैसे पाँच पाण्डव कहे जाते हैं, जो स्वदेशी हैं, तो पाँच पाण्डव कहे जाते हैं। ऐसे ही विधर्मी भी तो हैं, उन विधर्मियों में, विदेशियों में, कोर्इ ऐसे हैं जो नास्तिक हो पड़े हैं। जैसे आर्य समाज और रशियन्स, तो वो अलग हो जाते हैं।
जिज्ञासु:- बाबा, गीता में श्लोक आया है-कविं पुराणमनुशासितारमणोरणीयांसमनुस्मरेद्य: सर्वस्य धातारमचिंत्यरूपमादित्यवर्णं तमसः परस्तात। इसका अर्थ क्या है ?
बाबा:- हम संस्कृत तो जानते नहीं, आप संस्कृत का पहले हिन्दी अर्थ बता दो फिर हम उसका बेहद में अर्थ बतायें। बताओ? हम संस्कृत नहीं पढ़े। कहाँ तक भाषायें पढ़ेंगे? बाबा कहते हैं भाषायें तुम बच्चे पढ़ो, क्योंकि दूसरों की सेवा करनी है। संस्कृत भी पढ़ो, अंग्रेजी भी पढ़ो, फारसी भी पढ़ो, उर्दु भी पढ़ो। सारी दुनिया की सेवा करनी है न, तो तुम सब भाषायें सीखों ताकि तुम्हारा भाग्य ज्यादा बने। तुमको विश्व कल्याणकारी बनना है। मैं थोड़े ही सारी भाषाये सीखुंगा। हाँ, तो बोलो।
(जिज्ञासु ने कुछ कहा।) क्या हुआ? (जिज्ञासु- अर्थ बताओ।) अर्थ... संस्कृत हम जानते ही नहीं न। बाबा तो बेहद का बाबा है, तो बेहद के अर्थ बतायेगा, या संस्कृत... बाबा तो संस्कृत क्या बोलते हैं? सुनन्ती, कथन्ती, भागन्ती। बाबा ये संस्कृत जानते हैं, बस। बाकी अगर थोड़ी बहुत संस्कृत जानते हैं तो प्रजापिता जानते हैं या ब्रह्मा जानते हैं। आपको जबाब किससे लेना है? (जिज्ञासु- शिवबाबा से।) हाँ फिर। शास्त्रों के एक-एक श्लोक ले करके बैठ जाओ सब लोग और पूछो, बाबा इसका अर्थ क्या है।
प्रश्न:- संगम का अन्त अर्थात कुछ समय पहले से ही प्रत्यक्षता जरुर होगी।
बाबा:- उसको संगम का अंत नही कहेंगे हमारे पुरुषार्थ का अन्त होगा। संगम का अन्त हो जायेगा तो कौन सा युग शुरु हो जायेगा? सतयुग शुरु हो जायेगा। फिर प्रत्यक्षता की बात नहीं रहेगी। तो प्रत्यक्षता का पार्ट बजाते हुये अपना वर्तमान आत्मा के, अपना वर्तमान माला के मणके का नम्बर और भविष्य राज्य का स्वरुप दोनों प्रत्यक्ष होंगे, वो कैसे होगा? जो बुद्धिमान बाप के बुद्धिमान बच्चे होंगे, रुद्रमाला के मणके होंगे, बीज रुप स्टेज में, सूक्ष्मस्टेज में टिकने वाले होंगे वो अपने अनेक जन्मों को पहले प्रत्यक्ष करेंगे या बेसिक में चलने वाले पहले प्रत्यक्ष करेंगे? जो सूक्ष्मस्टेज में टिकना ही नहीं जानते, मनन, चिंतन, मंथन जिनका चलता ही नहीं और बाहर की दुनिया वाले, दूसरे धर्मों की तो बात ही दूसरी है, वो तो और ही पीछे के हो गये, तो सारा मदार प्रत्यक्षता का आता है आत्मा को सूक्ष्मस्टेज धारण कराने की बात पर। जितना स्मृति स्वरुप में हम अपनी आत्मा के स्वरुप को याद करेंगे कि मैं आत्मा अति सूक्ष्म ज्योति बिन्दु हूँ , उतनी हमारी मन, बुद्धि सूक्ष्म बनेगी और एक-एक बात की गहरार्इ को पकड़ती जावेगी। अपने पार्ट के भी गहरार्इ को पकड़ेगी और अपने जो नजदीक है जन्म - जन्मान्तर के उनके पार्ट के गहरार्इ को भी पकड़ेगी।
सबसे जास्ती नजदीक होते हैं पति और पत्नि। तो जन्म - जन्मान्तर 21 जन्म का कोर्इ हिसाब किताब भी होगा, उस हिसाब किताब के आधार पर सबके नम्बर डिक्लैर होते जावेंगे। स्वंय ही स्वयं को नम्बर डिक्लैर होगा। दूसरी आत्माओं को नम्बर डिक्लैर नहीं होगा। या तो उनसे कनेक्टेड जो भी उनको सिखाने वाले हैं गुरु, उनको पता चलेगा पहले। जैसे माला में 108 मणके हैं,9 ग्रुप है 12-12 के, तो 9 धर्म वाले जो मुखिया हैं अपने ग्रुप के 12 मणकों का पहले वो जानकारी करेंगे और उस मणके को भी जानकारी होगी जो उनसे कनेक्टेड है। अभी पहले नम्बर किसका लगेगा? सूर्यवंशियों का नम्बर लगेगा। सूर्य पहले प्रत्यक्ष होगा और सूर्य के साथ-2? (किसीने कहा – सूर्यवंशी।) हाँ, सूर्यवंशी बच्चे तो प्रत्यक्ष होंगे, लेकिन वो कितने होंगे? जो आठ है, अष्टदेव कहे जाते हैं... अष्टदेवों में भी नम्बरवार है, कोर्इ चन्द्रवंश का मुखिया, कोर्इ बौद्धि वंश का मुखिया, मुखिया न कहें पूर्वज कहें। अलग-2 धर्मों के अलग - 2 पूर्वज हैं, वो पूर्वज ज्यादा से ज्यादा सूक्ष्मस्टेज को प्राप्त करते हैं। फिर उनसे कनेक्टेड और जो आत्मायें हैं उनको अपना - 2 पता चलता है। अभी संग के रंग में आ रहे हैं या नहीं आ रहे हैं? तो उस संग के रंग के आधार पर उनका मनन, चिंतन, मंथन चलता रहेगा। और अपने - 2 पार्ट प्रत्यक्ष होते रहेंगे।
Discussion-1236, Nilanga, Dt.17.10.11
Part-3
Question: How do [people] become crippled?
Baba: The arm breaks, doesn’t it? Helpers are called arms. Some become helpful in good works and some become helpful in bad works, so those who continuously become helpful in bad works, what will be their result? Their arm will break.
Question: How do people become thieves?
Baba: Arey! Someone becomes a thief by taking the company of thieves. The sanskaars of stealing become firm.
Question: How do people become dacoits?
Baba: If someone takes the company of dacoits, what will he become? He will become a dacoit.
Question: How does someone become a sweeper?
Baba: (Someone said: They clean dirt.) Yes, that is the physical dirt, but how did they become instruments to clean that dirt? When someone defames others a lot, what does he become? He becomes a sweeper. The one who pointlessly defames others a lot… what does defamation mean? [It means,] someone has not committed a sin, but [a person] tells wrong things about him [to others]: ‘He has committed this sin, he is such a sinful person, he is so dirty’; he narrates wasteful things to others, so what does he become? He becomes a sweeper.
Question: [What about] terrorist?
Baba: Arey, those who spread terrorism physically, what kind of sanskaars will they develop? There are some [people] who spread rumours pointlessly, so what will happen by spreading rumours pointlessly? Will terror increase in a person or not? So they will become terrorists in the next birth.
Question: [Some women] become prostitutes…
Baba: Is it men or women who make prostitutes? There are some men who pollute virgins and mothers a lot, so what result will they get in the next birth? They will become prostitutes.
Question: Baba, if a knowledgeable soul creates a restless atmosphere at home and gives a lot of sorrow to the family, what will happen to such souls?
Baba: Arey! If someone does wrong actions in the lokik world, he accumulates one time sin and if someone does wrong actions, sinful actions, acts against Shrimat after taking knowledge and becoming the child of the Father, then how many times sins does he accumulate? He accumulates hundred times sins. How much loss will he incur? He incurs a great loss.
Student: Baba, the eight deities are shown in the form of five deities.
Baba: Not five deities, there are eight deities in total, but among them the five Pandavas (descendants of Pandu) are firm. Just like it is said the five Pandavas; they are swadeshi (those who belong to the country Bharat), so they are called the five Pandavas. Likewise there are the vidharmis as well; among those vidharmis and videshis (foreigners) some have become Atheist. For example, the Arya Samaj and the Russians, so they are different.
Student: Baba, there is a shloka in the Gita: Kavim puraanamanushaasitaaramanoraniiyaansamanusmaredyah sarvasya dhaataaramacintyaruupamaadityavarnam tamasah parastaat. What is its meaning?
Baba: I don’t know Sanskrit, first tell Me the Hindi meaning of Sanskrit, then I will tell its unlimited meaning. Tell Me. I have not studied Sanskrit. How many languages will I study? Baba says: you children should learn languages because you have to serve others. Study Sanskrit, English, Persian as well as Urdu, you have to serve the whole world, haven’t you? So, learn all languages, so that you earn great fortune. You have to become world benefactor. I will not learn all languages. Yes, speak up.
Baba: (Student said something.) What happened? (Student: Tell me the meaning.) The meaning… I do not know Sanskrit at all. Baba is the unlimited Baba, so will He tell [you] the unlimited meanings… what Sanskrit does Baba speak? Sunanti, kathanti, bhaaganti . Baba knows just this Sanskrit. As for the rest, if there is someone who knows a little Sanskrit it is Prajapita or Brahma. From whom do you want to take your answer? (Student: From ShivBaba.) Yes, then? (Ironically:) Each of you, take out one shloka from the scriptures and ask: Baba, what does it mean?
Question: [The sign of] the end of the Confluence Age means, the revelation will definitely take place some time before [it ends].
Baba: It will not be called the end of the Confluence Age; it will be the end of making purushaarth [by us]. If the Confluence Age ends, which age will start? The Golden Age will start. Then there will not be the question of the revelation.
Question: So, while playing the role of revelation, our present rank as a bead of the rosary and the form of our kingdom in future, both will be revealed, how will that happen?
Baba: Those who are the intelligent children of the intelligent Father, the beads of the Rudramaalaa (rosary of Rudra), those who will be the ones who stabilize in the seed form stage, the subtle stage, will they reveal their many births first or will those who are in the basic [knowledge] , the ones who do not know how to stabilize in the subtle stage at all, those who don’t think and churn at all reveal [their many births] first? And as regards the people of the outside world, those belonging to other religions, it is a totally different question about them. They are the much latter ones [to be revealed] . So the revelation entirely depends on making the soul attain a subtle stage. The more we remember the form of our soul [thinking:] I, the soul am a very subtle point of light , the more our mind and intellect will become subtle and it will grasp the depth of each and every topic. It will grasp the depth of its own part as well as the part of those who are close to it for many births.
A husband and wife are the closest ones. So they will also have some karmic accounts for many births, for 21 births. Based on those karmic accounts the ranks of everyone will be declared. Someone’s rank will be known to him alone, the other souls will not come to know his rank. Or else the gurus who are his teachers, who are connected to him, they will come to know of [his rank] first. For example, there are 108 beads in the rosary. There are nine groups of 12 [beads] each. So as regards the leaders of the nine religions, the 12 beads of his group will come to know [his rank] first and that bead (the leader) connected to them will also come to know [his rank]. Now, who will be the first [to know their ranks] ? The Suryavanshis . The Sun will be revealed first and along with the Sun…? (Students: The Suryavanshis.) Yes, the Suryavanshi children will certainly be revealed, but how many will they be? The eight [souls], who are called Ashta dev (the eight deities) [will be revealed]. Even among the eight deities, they are number wise . Someone is the leader of Candravansh (the Moon dynasty), someone is the leader of Bauddhivansh (the Buddhist dynasty); not leaders [but] they can be called ancestors (puurvaj). Different religions have different ancestors; those ancestors attain the most subtle stage. Then the other souls connected to them come to know about their [individual ranks]. Now, are they coming in the colour of their company or not? (Someone said: They are.) So their thinking and churning will keep taking place based on that colour of the company and their parts will keep being revealed. ... (to be continued.)
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
वार्तालाप-1236, नीलंगा, ता.17.10.11
भाग-4
जिज्ञासु:- बाबा, आदि सो अंत कहते हैं। आदि में ओम् का उच्चारण हुआ था, ओम् ध्वनी का, तो अन्त में भी होगा क्या?
बाबा:- उच्चारण होना भक्तिमार्ग की बात है या ज्ञानमार्ग की बात है? (सभी ने कहा- भक्तिमार्ग।) तो आदि में था भक्तिमार्ग का फाउन्डेशन, अन्त में भी ओम् तो होगा लेकिन उच्चारण के रुप में होगा या मानसिक स्टेज के रुप में होगा? मानसिक स्टेज के रुप में होगा। अन्दर ही अन्दर अनुभव करेंगे, क्या अनुभव करेंगे? कि मैं आत्मा कैसे - 2 स्थापना करने वाली हूँ अपनी दुनिया की। कौन सी दुनिया की मैनें स्थापना की है। और स्थापना की हुर्इ दुनिया में कौन-2 मणकों की मुझे पालना करनी है नम्बरवार। फिर विनाश भी करना है। हर एक की अपनी - 2 दुनिया है उसमें अच्छे से अच्छे भी है और बुरे से बुरे भी है। जो बुरे से बुरे गुण हैं, बुरे से बुरे संस्कार हैं, बुरे से बुरे पार्टधारी हैं, उनको पहले ठिकाने लगाना पड़ेगा। तो बेहद में टिकने की जो बात है वो ही उन स्वरुप में टिकने की बात है। बाकी उच्चारण की बात नहीं है ।
जिज्ञासु:- बाबा, फर्रुखाबाद में जो बेसिक वालो ने हंगामा किया था...
बाबा:- बेसिक वालों ने हंगामा किया, वो तो ऐसा कुछ तो नहीं खास देखने में आया। पब्लिक हंगामा कर रही थी। जो समाज की अलग - 2 सभा सोसार्इटीया हैं, वो मीडीया को पढ़ करके, अखबारों को पढ़ करके और चैनल्स को देख करके, टी.वी. में जो देखते थे उस देख और सुनकरके और पढ़करके जो ग्लानी बुद्धि में बैठ गर्इ, उसके आधार पर हड़कम्प मचाय रहे थे। अभी भी मचाय रहे हैं थोड़ा बहुत। विनाश ज्वाला कहाँ से निकली? रुद्र ज्ञान यज्ञ कुण्ड से विनाश ज्वाला निकली। तो यज्ञ कुण्ड माऊन्ट आबू में है क्या? कहाँ है? अरे कौन सी जगह का कुण्ड बहुत प्रसिद्ध है? द्रौपदी कुण्ड शास्त्रों में भी बहुत प्रसिद्ध है। तो 98 में वहाँ से विनाश ज्वाला निकली। चिनगारी फूटती है तो धीरे - धीरे आग लगती है कि एकदम भड़क जाती है? (सभी ने कहा- धीरे-2) तो दस साल अभी चिनगारी को सुलगने में लग गए। अब धीरे-2 फटना शुरु होना चाहिए कि नही? अव्यक्त बापदादा ने तो बोल दिया यु़. पी. को धर्म युद्ध का खेल दिखाना है। देखना है कि धर्मी, धर्म स्थिर रहता है या अधर्मी स्थिर रहते हैं, कौन टिका रहता है और कौन डिग जाते हैं। तो विनाश ज्वाला प्रज्वलित होगी तो क्या समझते हैं शांत हो जावेगी? 98 में जब बवन्डर शुरु हुआ था, तो यु.पी. के जनता पार्टी के जो लखनऊ के सहध्यक्ष थे राम प्रकाश त्रिपाठी उन्होंने आश्रम की तरफ से भाषण दे करके बोला था कि ये आश्रम सच्चार्इ से काम कर रहा है इनको अगर इसी तरह ज्यादा छेड़-छाड़ की गर्इ तो सारा यु.पी. जलने लग पड़ेगा। अब वो छेड़-छाड़ तो लगातार जारी रही, इन 11-12-13 वर्षों में।
अब ये पाण्डवों के 12-13 वर्ष और रामायण के 14 वर्ष पूरे हुये कि नहीं हुये? तो लड़ार्इ होनी चाहिए कि नहीं होनी चाहिए? और पाण्डव तो लड़ार्इ लड़ते ही नहीं है। मुरली में भी बाबा ने बोला है, ये अखबार वाले आग लगायेंगे, ग्लानी करेंगे, भौंकते हैं उन्हें भौंकने दो। तुम कुछ भी न करो। क्या? कुछ भी न करो का मतलब क्या हुआ? सच्चार्इ को सिद्ध करने की जरुरत होती है क्या? इसलिये बोला तुम कुछ भी न करो। जो सच्चार्इ है वो स्वयं सिद्ध हो जाती है। एक कहावत है सच्चार्इ सिर पर चढ़ करके बोलेगी। इसलिये तुम कुछ भी न करो। भौंकते हैं उन्हे भौंकने दो। पुतले जलाते हैं तिराहों पर, चौराहों पर, जलाने दो। रावण की सभा में अंगद ने क्या किया? पाँव जमा दिया, चैलेन्ज दिया जिसमें ताकत हो वो हिला के दिखायें। तो बड़े - 2 ताकत वाले आये हिलाने के लिये, हम आग लगा देंगे हम उड़ाय देंगे, आल इण्डिया से आश्रमों को उखाड़ देंगे। फिर क्या पाँव हिल गया? ये तो सब चलता ही रहेगा। डर लग रहा है क्या? गीता पाठषाला चला रहे हो कि बन्द कर दी?
जिज्ञासु:- फर्रुखाबाद का जो एस.पी है न बाबा, उसने तो बताया – आश्रम पर हम केस नहीं करेंगे।
बाबा:- लेकिन उनके ऊपर दबाव तो डाला जा रहा है ऊपर से।
जिज्ञासु:- बी.के. वाले दबाव डाल रहे है न।
बाबा:- हाँ। वो तो ठीक है नोटों कि गड्डियाँ दबाव डाल रही है। तो जो दबाव पड़ रहा है उस दबाव से उऋण होने के लिये कुछ तो करना पड़गा। कुछ बनता बनानी पड़ेगी कि नहीं बनानी पड़ेगी? चलो, निगेटीव करने वाले को निगेटीव करने दो, हमारा काम क्या है? ग्लानी फैलाने में सहयोग देना या भगवान का गायन करने में सहयोग देना? (सभी ने कहा- भगवान का गायन करने में सहयोग देना।) बस हम अपना पोजीटीव काम करते रहें। फर्रुखाबाद में जैसे पार्टीयाँ पहले आती थी, आती रहेंगी और ज्यादा आयेंगी। कम्पिल में 98 का वाकया होने के बाद, हड़कम्प होने के बाद, पहले आल इण्डिया में तीन ही सेंटर थे एडवांस के। कलकत्ता, दिल्ली और कम्पिल। फिर क्या हुआ? अब तीन की जगह तीस हो गए। हो गए कि नहीं हो गए? अभी और ज्यादा बवंडर खड़ा होगा आगे तीन की जगह तीन सौ हो जायेंगे। ये लड़ार्इ है दीये और तूफान की। पब्लिक चिल्लाय रही है, पब्लिक से कनेक्टेड जो सभा सोसार्इटीया है, बड़ी - 2 संस्थायें हैं सामाजिक, राजनैतिक वो चिल्लाय रही हैं, आश्रम के बारे में सच्चार्इ क्लियर होनी चाहिए, सी.बी.आइ. को सौपना चाहिए, उसको सौपना चाहिए; लेकिन गीत तो बने हुये हैं न -जादुगर, जादुगर आयेगा किसी को समझ नहीं आयेगा। खोद - खाद करते हैं मिलता उन्हें कुछ भी नहीं है। कम्पिल में एक कालेश्वर नाथ मंदिर है उसमें जो शिव लिंग रखा हुआ है गड्ढ़े में तो एक अंग्रेज अफसर ने उसकी खुदार्इ कराना शुरु कर दी, कितना गहरा है, खुदार्इ कराता चला गया और वो पत्थर और ही चौड़ा होता गया नीचे , आखरीन खुदार्इ करना बन्द कर दिया। अरे, जो प्रोसीजर है अगर समझना है तो सात दिन का कोर्स आकर के लो, तसल्ली से बैठ के किसी से सुनो, दो चार दिन कोर्स लेने के बाद भट्ठी करो, महीने दो चार महीने रेगूलर पढ़ार्इ पढ़ो, इतनी ढ़ेर की ढ़ेर कन्याओं, माताओं, बुढ़ियों को समझ में आ सकता है, तो दुनियावी जो बड़े लोग हैं उनको समझ में नहीं आ सकता? लेकिन बाबा ने बोला हुआ है उसके लिये क्या करेंगे? बाबा ने तो एक मुरली में बोल दिया - जब बाप आते हैं तो दुनिया के बड़े-2 लोग मुर्ख बन जाते हैं, महामुर्ख। क्या बोला मुरली में? दुनिया के बड़े-बड़े लोग महामुर्ख बन जाते हैं। ऊँची-2 कुर्सियों पर बैठे हुये हैं, ऊँची - 2 महलमाडीयाँ - अटारियाँ बनाये बैठे हैं, बड़े - 2 कल कारखाने खोले बैठे हैं लेकिन बाप के बारे में उनकी अकल क्या कह रही है? मुर्ख बन रहे हैं कि महामुर्ख बन रहे हैं? महामुर्ख बन जाते हैं। सारे निर्णय उल्टे - 2 लेते हैं। समाज में ग्लानी फैलती है तो मारे मान मर्तबे के ‘अरे, वहाँ हम कैसे जायेंगे? इतनी खराब जगह थू, हम नहीं जायेंगे कभी जिन्दगी में। तो बुद्धि में अंहकार चढ़ जाता है वहाँ जाके समझेगा कौन। समझने की तो बात ही दूर हो जाती है। वहाँ जाने आने वालों को भी हिराकत की नजर से देखते हैं ‘हे! वैश्यालय में जा रहा है, हम तो बड़े आदमी है।
जिज्ञासु:- अन्त में झुकेंगे न बाबा वो?
बाबा:- कौन?
जिज्ञासु:- जो बड़े - 2 हैं।
बाबा:- रावण झुकता है? कंस झुकता है? देवासुर संग्राम में जो भी असुरों की लड़ाइयाँ हुर्इ हैं वो असुर झुके थे क्या? (जिज्ञासु ने कुछ कहा।) हाँ, बाकी सौ सुनने वालों में कोर्इ एक निकलता है, वो हमारे कुल में आने वाला होगा तो आ जायेगा। अच्छा पुरुषार्थ करेगा, ऊँच पद पाय सकता है, नहीं तो कम से कम प्रजा पद तो मिलेगा ही। ओम् शांति।
Discussion-1236, Nilanga, Dt.17.10.11
Part-4
Student: Baba, it is said that whatever happens in the beginning happens in the end as well. The word ‘Om’ was chanted in the beginning, will it be chanted in the end as well?
Baba: Does chanting take place in the path of Bhakti or in the path of knowledge? (Everyone said: The path of Bhakti.) So in the beginning there was the foundation of the path of Bhakti. In the end also there will be [the word] ‘Om’ but will it be chanted [orally] or mentally? It will be [chanted] mentally. They will experience within; what will they experience? ‘How I, the soul establish my world, which world I have established and in that established world which are the beads (souls) whom I have to sustain before or later. Then I have to do the destruction as well. Everyone has his own world, in which there are the best ones as well as the worst ones. First the worst qualities, the worst sanskaars, the worst actors will have to be destroyed. So being stable in the unlimited means being stable in the form of ‘Om’. As for the rest, it is not about chanting.
Student: Baba, the upheaval that the people from the basic knowledge created in Farrukhabad…
Baba: The people from the basic knowledge created an upheaval, nothing particular like this was seen. The public was creating disturbance. The different communities and societies were creating disturbances because of the defamation that sat in their intellect after listening to the media, reading newspapers, watching and listening to the [news] channels on T.V. Where did the flame of destruction emerge from? The flame of destruction emerged from the sacrificial fire (Yagya kund) of the knowledge of Rudra. So is the Yagya kund in Mount Abu? Where is it? Arey! The kund of which place is very famous? The Draupadi kund is very famous in the scriptures as well. So the flame of destruction emerged from there in 98. When a spark kindles, then does it catch fire slowly or does it catch fire instantly? So it took 10 years for the spark to kindle. Now should the explosion start gradually or not? Avyakt BapDada has said that U.P. has to show the play of religious war (dharm yuddh kaa khel). We have to see whether the righteous ones, the religion remains stable or the unrighteous ones remain stable.[We have to see] who stands firm and who shakes. So, when the flame of destruction emerges, what do you think? Will it calm down? When there was a commotion in 98, Ram Prakash Tripathi from Lucknow who was the Co-President of the Janta Party of U.P. spoke while delivering a lecture from Ashram’s side: ‘This Ashram is working honestly, if they are provoked more like this, then the whole of U.P. will burst into flames . Well, that provoking did continue for these 11, 12, 13 years.
Now, have the 12, 13 years of the Pandavas and 14 years of the Ramayana completed or not? So, should the war take place or not and the Pandavas do not fight a war at all. Baba has said in the Murli as well: ‘These people from the press will cause trouble, they will defame. If they bark [at you], let them bark. Do not do anything. What? What does “Do not do anything” mean? Does truth need to be proved? This is why it was said, ‘do not do anything’. Truth is proved automatically. Then there is a saying: Truth will stand high. This is why do not do anything. Those who bark [at you], let them bark. If they burn effigies on the junction of three roads or crossroads, let them burn that. What did Angad do in the court of Ravan ? He planted his leg [and] gave a challenge: If anyone has strength, he may prove himself by budging my leg. So, many powerful people came to budge [his leg], [they said:] ‘We will burn down, blow away and uproot the Ashrams from all India’. Then, did his leg move? All this will keep happening. Are you feeling afraid? Are you running the Gita pathshala or have you stopped [running it]?
Student: Baba, the S.P. (Superintendent of Police) of Farrukhabad said: We will not file a case against the Ashram.
Baba: But they are being pressurized by the higher authorities.
Student: The BKs are pressurizing them, aren’t they?
Baba: Yes. It is right that bundles of notes (money) are putting pressure [on them]. So to overcome the pressure which is being exerted [on them], they will have to do something. Will they have to make some plan or not? Alright, those who act negatively let them act negatively. What is our work? Is it helping [people] in spreading defamation or helping [people] in praising God? (Everyone said: Helping [people] in praising God.) We should keep doing our positive work. Just like parties came in Farrukhabad before, they will keep coming [in future], even more [parties] will come. After the incident, commotion that took place in Kampil in 98… earlier there were only three centers of Advance Party in all India, [they were] in Kolkata, Delhi and Kampil. Then what happened? Instead of three, now there are thirty [centers]. Are there or are they not? Now, when a bigger commotion takes place, in place of thirty there will be three hundred [centers]. This is a fight between the lamp and the storm. The public is shouting, and the communities and societies connected to the public, the big social and governmental/political orgnisations are shouting: The truth of the Ashram should be revealed, it should be handed over to the CBI, to this one and that one, but songs have been made, aren’t they? ‘The magician will come, no one will be able to understand [anything]’. They carry out investigations but do not find anything. There is a Kaleshwarnath Temple in Kampil. There the Shivling is placed in a pit. So [it is said about that] an English officer started digging [around] it, [to see] how deep it is. He kept digging and that stone (the Shivling) deepened more and more. At last he stopped digging. Arey, the procedure is [that] if someone wants to understand [the knowledge], then he should come and take the seven days course, he should calmly listen [to the knowledge] from someone for two-four days, undergo the bhatti after taking course, he should study regularly for two-four months. If so many virgins, mothers, old women can understand [the knowledge], then can’t the wordly big people understand it? But Baba has said [in the Murli], what can we do about that? Baba has said in a Murli, when the Father comes, then the wealthy people of the world become fools, big fools. What has been said in the Murli? The wealthy people of the world become big fools. They are sitting on high positions, they have made tall palaces and multi storied buildings, they have opened big factories but what is their intellect saying about the Father? Are they becoming fools or big fools? They become big fools. They take all wrong decisions. When defamation spreads in the society, then because of honour and respect [they say:] Arey, how can we go there? It is such a dirty place, shame on it! We will never go there in our lifetime. The intellect becomes egoistic, then who will go there and understand? The question of understanding is completely left aside. They see even those who go there with contempt: ‘Eh! He is going to the brothel. We are people of upper class!
Student: Baba, they will bow in the end, won’t they?
Baba: Who?
Student: The influential people.
Baba: Does Ravan bow? Does Kans bow? In the wars that took place between the deities and the demons, did the demons bow? (Student said something.) Yes. Out of hundred listeners one [person] comes [in knowledge]. If he has to come to our family, he will come. If he makes good purushaarth, he can get a high position or he will at least get the position of a subject. Om Shanti. (Concluded.)
भाग-4
जिज्ञासु:- बाबा, आदि सो अंत कहते हैं। आदि में ओम् का उच्चारण हुआ था, ओम् ध्वनी का, तो अन्त में भी होगा क्या?
बाबा:- उच्चारण होना भक्तिमार्ग की बात है या ज्ञानमार्ग की बात है? (सभी ने कहा- भक्तिमार्ग।) तो आदि में था भक्तिमार्ग का फाउन्डेशन, अन्त में भी ओम् तो होगा लेकिन उच्चारण के रुप में होगा या मानसिक स्टेज के रुप में होगा? मानसिक स्टेज के रुप में होगा। अन्दर ही अन्दर अनुभव करेंगे, क्या अनुभव करेंगे? कि मैं आत्मा कैसे - 2 स्थापना करने वाली हूँ अपनी दुनिया की। कौन सी दुनिया की मैनें स्थापना की है। और स्थापना की हुर्इ दुनिया में कौन-2 मणकों की मुझे पालना करनी है नम्बरवार। फिर विनाश भी करना है। हर एक की अपनी - 2 दुनिया है उसमें अच्छे से अच्छे भी है और बुरे से बुरे भी है। जो बुरे से बुरे गुण हैं, बुरे से बुरे संस्कार हैं, बुरे से बुरे पार्टधारी हैं, उनको पहले ठिकाने लगाना पड़ेगा। तो बेहद में टिकने की जो बात है वो ही उन स्वरुप में टिकने की बात है। बाकी उच्चारण की बात नहीं है ।
जिज्ञासु:- बाबा, फर्रुखाबाद में जो बेसिक वालो ने हंगामा किया था...
बाबा:- बेसिक वालों ने हंगामा किया, वो तो ऐसा कुछ तो नहीं खास देखने में आया। पब्लिक हंगामा कर रही थी। जो समाज की अलग - 2 सभा सोसार्इटीया हैं, वो मीडीया को पढ़ करके, अखबारों को पढ़ करके और चैनल्स को देख करके, टी.वी. में जो देखते थे उस देख और सुनकरके और पढ़करके जो ग्लानी बुद्धि में बैठ गर्इ, उसके आधार पर हड़कम्प मचाय रहे थे। अभी भी मचाय रहे हैं थोड़ा बहुत। विनाश ज्वाला कहाँ से निकली? रुद्र ज्ञान यज्ञ कुण्ड से विनाश ज्वाला निकली। तो यज्ञ कुण्ड माऊन्ट आबू में है क्या? कहाँ है? अरे कौन सी जगह का कुण्ड बहुत प्रसिद्ध है? द्रौपदी कुण्ड शास्त्रों में भी बहुत प्रसिद्ध है। तो 98 में वहाँ से विनाश ज्वाला निकली। चिनगारी फूटती है तो धीरे - धीरे आग लगती है कि एकदम भड़क जाती है? (सभी ने कहा- धीरे-2) तो दस साल अभी चिनगारी को सुलगने में लग गए। अब धीरे-2 फटना शुरु होना चाहिए कि नही? अव्यक्त बापदादा ने तो बोल दिया यु़. पी. को धर्म युद्ध का खेल दिखाना है। देखना है कि धर्मी, धर्म स्थिर रहता है या अधर्मी स्थिर रहते हैं, कौन टिका रहता है और कौन डिग जाते हैं। तो विनाश ज्वाला प्रज्वलित होगी तो क्या समझते हैं शांत हो जावेगी? 98 में जब बवन्डर शुरु हुआ था, तो यु.पी. के जनता पार्टी के जो लखनऊ के सहध्यक्ष थे राम प्रकाश त्रिपाठी उन्होंने आश्रम की तरफ से भाषण दे करके बोला था कि ये आश्रम सच्चार्इ से काम कर रहा है इनको अगर इसी तरह ज्यादा छेड़-छाड़ की गर्इ तो सारा यु.पी. जलने लग पड़ेगा। अब वो छेड़-छाड़ तो लगातार जारी रही, इन 11-12-13 वर्षों में।
अब ये पाण्डवों के 12-13 वर्ष और रामायण के 14 वर्ष पूरे हुये कि नहीं हुये? तो लड़ार्इ होनी चाहिए कि नहीं होनी चाहिए? और पाण्डव तो लड़ार्इ लड़ते ही नहीं है। मुरली में भी बाबा ने बोला है, ये अखबार वाले आग लगायेंगे, ग्लानी करेंगे, भौंकते हैं उन्हें भौंकने दो। तुम कुछ भी न करो। क्या? कुछ भी न करो का मतलब क्या हुआ? सच्चार्इ को सिद्ध करने की जरुरत होती है क्या? इसलिये बोला तुम कुछ भी न करो। जो सच्चार्इ है वो स्वयं सिद्ध हो जाती है। एक कहावत है सच्चार्इ सिर पर चढ़ करके बोलेगी। इसलिये तुम कुछ भी न करो। भौंकते हैं उन्हे भौंकने दो। पुतले जलाते हैं तिराहों पर, चौराहों पर, जलाने दो। रावण की सभा में अंगद ने क्या किया? पाँव जमा दिया, चैलेन्ज दिया जिसमें ताकत हो वो हिला के दिखायें। तो बड़े - 2 ताकत वाले आये हिलाने के लिये, हम आग लगा देंगे हम उड़ाय देंगे, आल इण्डिया से आश्रमों को उखाड़ देंगे। फिर क्या पाँव हिल गया? ये तो सब चलता ही रहेगा। डर लग रहा है क्या? गीता पाठषाला चला रहे हो कि बन्द कर दी?
जिज्ञासु:- फर्रुखाबाद का जो एस.पी है न बाबा, उसने तो बताया – आश्रम पर हम केस नहीं करेंगे।
बाबा:- लेकिन उनके ऊपर दबाव तो डाला जा रहा है ऊपर से।
जिज्ञासु:- बी.के. वाले दबाव डाल रहे है न।
बाबा:- हाँ। वो तो ठीक है नोटों कि गड्डियाँ दबाव डाल रही है। तो जो दबाव पड़ रहा है उस दबाव से उऋण होने के लिये कुछ तो करना पड़गा। कुछ बनता बनानी पड़ेगी कि नहीं बनानी पड़ेगी? चलो, निगेटीव करने वाले को निगेटीव करने दो, हमारा काम क्या है? ग्लानी फैलाने में सहयोग देना या भगवान का गायन करने में सहयोग देना? (सभी ने कहा- भगवान का गायन करने में सहयोग देना।) बस हम अपना पोजीटीव काम करते रहें। फर्रुखाबाद में जैसे पार्टीयाँ पहले आती थी, आती रहेंगी और ज्यादा आयेंगी। कम्पिल में 98 का वाकया होने के बाद, हड़कम्प होने के बाद, पहले आल इण्डिया में तीन ही सेंटर थे एडवांस के। कलकत्ता, दिल्ली और कम्पिल। फिर क्या हुआ? अब तीन की जगह तीस हो गए। हो गए कि नहीं हो गए? अभी और ज्यादा बवंडर खड़ा होगा आगे तीन की जगह तीन सौ हो जायेंगे। ये लड़ार्इ है दीये और तूफान की। पब्लिक चिल्लाय रही है, पब्लिक से कनेक्टेड जो सभा सोसार्इटीया है, बड़ी - 2 संस्थायें हैं सामाजिक, राजनैतिक वो चिल्लाय रही हैं, आश्रम के बारे में सच्चार्इ क्लियर होनी चाहिए, सी.बी.आइ. को सौपना चाहिए, उसको सौपना चाहिए; लेकिन गीत तो बने हुये हैं न -जादुगर, जादुगर आयेगा किसी को समझ नहीं आयेगा। खोद - खाद करते हैं मिलता उन्हें कुछ भी नहीं है। कम्पिल में एक कालेश्वर नाथ मंदिर है उसमें जो शिव लिंग रखा हुआ है गड्ढ़े में तो एक अंग्रेज अफसर ने उसकी खुदार्इ कराना शुरु कर दी, कितना गहरा है, खुदार्इ कराता चला गया और वो पत्थर और ही चौड़ा होता गया नीचे , आखरीन खुदार्इ करना बन्द कर दिया। अरे, जो प्रोसीजर है अगर समझना है तो सात दिन का कोर्स आकर के लो, तसल्ली से बैठ के किसी से सुनो, दो चार दिन कोर्स लेने के बाद भट्ठी करो, महीने दो चार महीने रेगूलर पढ़ार्इ पढ़ो, इतनी ढ़ेर की ढ़ेर कन्याओं, माताओं, बुढ़ियों को समझ में आ सकता है, तो दुनियावी जो बड़े लोग हैं उनको समझ में नहीं आ सकता? लेकिन बाबा ने बोला हुआ है उसके लिये क्या करेंगे? बाबा ने तो एक मुरली में बोल दिया - जब बाप आते हैं तो दुनिया के बड़े-2 लोग मुर्ख बन जाते हैं, महामुर्ख। क्या बोला मुरली में? दुनिया के बड़े-बड़े लोग महामुर्ख बन जाते हैं। ऊँची-2 कुर्सियों पर बैठे हुये हैं, ऊँची - 2 महलमाडीयाँ - अटारियाँ बनाये बैठे हैं, बड़े - 2 कल कारखाने खोले बैठे हैं लेकिन बाप के बारे में उनकी अकल क्या कह रही है? मुर्ख बन रहे हैं कि महामुर्ख बन रहे हैं? महामुर्ख बन जाते हैं। सारे निर्णय उल्टे - 2 लेते हैं। समाज में ग्लानी फैलती है तो मारे मान मर्तबे के ‘अरे, वहाँ हम कैसे जायेंगे? इतनी खराब जगह थू, हम नहीं जायेंगे कभी जिन्दगी में। तो बुद्धि में अंहकार चढ़ जाता है वहाँ जाके समझेगा कौन। समझने की तो बात ही दूर हो जाती है। वहाँ जाने आने वालों को भी हिराकत की नजर से देखते हैं ‘हे! वैश्यालय में जा रहा है, हम तो बड़े आदमी है।
जिज्ञासु:- अन्त में झुकेंगे न बाबा वो?
बाबा:- कौन?
जिज्ञासु:- जो बड़े - 2 हैं।
बाबा:- रावण झुकता है? कंस झुकता है? देवासुर संग्राम में जो भी असुरों की लड़ाइयाँ हुर्इ हैं वो असुर झुके थे क्या? (जिज्ञासु ने कुछ कहा।) हाँ, बाकी सौ सुनने वालों में कोर्इ एक निकलता है, वो हमारे कुल में आने वाला होगा तो आ जायेगा। अच्छा पुरुषार्थ करेगा, ऊँच पद पाय सकता है, नहीं तो कम से कम प्रजा पद तो मिलेगा ही। ओम् शांति।
Discussion-1236, Nilanga, Dt.17.10.11
Part-4
Student: Baba, it is said that whatever happens in the beginning happens in the end as well. The word ‘Om’ was chanted in the beginning, will it be chanted in the end as well?
Baba: Does chanting take place in the path of Bhakti or in the path of knowledge? (Everyone said: The path of Bhakti.) So in the beginning there was the foundation of the path of Bhakti. In the end also there will be [the word] ‘Om’ but will it be chanted [orally] or mentally? It will be [chanted] mentally. They will experience within; what will they experience? ‘How I, the soul establish my world, which world I have established and in that established world which are the beads (souls) whom I have to sustain before or later. Then I have to do the destruction as well. Everyone has his own world, in which there are the best ones as well as the worst ones. First the worst qualities, the worst sanskaars, the worst actors will have to be destroyed. So being stable in the unlimited means being stable in the form of ‘Om’. As for the rest, it is not about chanting.
Student: Baba, the upheaval that the people from the basic knowledge created in Farrukhabad…
Baba: The people from the basic knowledge created an upheaval, nothing particular like this was seen. The public was creating disturbance. The different communities and societies were creating disturbances because of the defamation that sat in their intellect after listening to the media, reading newspapers, watching and listening to the [news] channels on T.V. Where did the flame of destruction emerge from? The flame of destruction emerged from the sacrificial fire (Yagya kund) of the knowledge of Rudra. So is the Yagya kund in Mount Abu? Where is it? Arey! The kund of which place is very famous? The Draupadi kund is very famous in the scriptures as well. So the flame of destruction emerged from there in 98. When a spark kindles, then does it catch fire slowly or does it catch fire instantly? So it took 10 years for the spark to kindle. Now should the explosion start gradually or not? Avyakt BapDada has said that U.P. has to show the play of religious war (dharm yuddh kaa khel). We have to see whether the righteous ones, the religion remains stable or the unrighteous ones remain stable.[We have to see] who stands firm and who shakes. So, when the flame of destruction emerges, what do you think? Will it calm down? When there was a commotion in 98, Ram Prakash Tripathi from Lucknow who was the Co-President of the Janta Party of U.P. spoke while delivering a lecture from Ashram’s side: ‘This Ashram is working honestly, if they are provoked more like this, then the whole of U.P. will burst into flames . Well, that provoking did continue for these 11, 12, 13 years.
Now, have the 12, 13 years of the Pandavas and 14 years of the Ramayana completed or not? So, should the war take place or not and the Pandavas do not fight a war at all. Baba has said in the Murli as well: ‘These people from the press will cause trouble, they will defame. If they bark [at you], let them bark. Do not do anything. What? What does “Do not do anything” mean? Does truth need to be proved? This is why it was said, ‘do not do anything’. Truth is proved automatically. Then there is a saying: Truth will stand high. This is why do not do anything. Those who bark [at you], let them bark. If they burn effigies on the junction of three roads or crossroads, let them burn that. What did Angad do in the court of Ravan ? He planted his leg [and] gave a challenge: If anyone has strength, he may prove himself by budging my leg. So, many powerful people came to budge [his leg], [they said:] ‘We will burn down, blow away and uproot the Ashrams from all India’. Then, did his leg move? All this will keep happening. Are you feeling afraid? Are you running the Gita pathshala or have you stopped [running it]?
Student: Baba, the S.P. (Superintendent of Police) of Farrukhabad said: We will not file a case against the Ashram.
Baba: But they are being pressurized by the higher authorities.
Student: The BKs are pressurizing them, aren’t they?
Baba: Yes. It is right that bundles of notes (money) are putting pressure [on them]. So to overcome the pressure which is being exerted [on them], they will have to do something. Will they have to make some plan or not? Alright, those who act negatively let them act negatively. What is our work? Is it helping [people] in spreading defamation or helping [people] in praising God? (Everyone said: Helping [people] in praising God.) We should keep doing our positive work. Just like parties came in Farrukhabad before, they will keep coming [in future], even more [parties] will come. After the incident, commotion that took place in Kampil in 98… earlier there were only three centers of Advance Party in all India, [they were] in Kolkata, Delhi and Kampil. Then what happened? Instead of three, now there are thirty [centers]. Are there or are they not? Now, when a bigger commotion takes place, in place of thirty there will be three hundred [centers]. This is a fight between the lamp and the storm. The public is shouting, and the communities and societies connected to the public, the big social and governmental/political orgnisations are shouting: The truth of the Ashram should be revealed, it should be handed over to the CBI, to this one and that one, but songs have been made, aren’t they? ‘The magician will come, no one will be able to understand [anything]’. They carry out investigations but do not find anything. There is a Kaleshwarnath Temple in Kampil. There the Shivling is placed in a pit. So [it is said about that] an English officer started digging [around] it, [to see] how deep it is. He kept digging and that stone (the Shivling) deepened more and more. At last he stopped digging. Arey, the procedure is [that] if someone wants to understand [the knowledge], then he should come and take the seven days course, he should calmly listen [to the knowledge] from someone for two-four days, undergo the bhatti after taking course, he should study regularly for two-four months. If so many virgins, mothers, old women can understand [the knowledge], then can’t the wordly big people understand it? But Baba has said [in the Murli], what can we do about that? Baba has said in a Murli, when the Father comes, then the wealthy people of the world become fools, big fools. What has been said in the Murli? The wealthy people of the world become big fools. They are sitting on high positions, they have made tall palaces and multi storied buildings, they have opened big factories but what is their intellect saying about the Father? Are they becoming fools or big fools? They become big fools. They take all wrong decisions. When defamation spreads in the society, then because of honour and respect [they say:] Arey, how can we go there? It is such a dirty place, shame on it! We will never go there in our lifetime. The intellect becomes egoistic, then who will go there and understand? The question of understanding is completely left aside. They see even those who go there with contempt: ‘Eh! He is going to the brothel. We are people of upper class!
Student: Baba, they will bow in the end, won’t they?
Baba: Who?
Student: The influential people.
Baba: Does Ravan bow? Does Kans bow? In the wars that took place between the deities and the demons, did the demons bow? (Student said something.) Yes. Out of hundred listeners one [person] comes [in knowledge]. If he has to come to our family, he will come. If he makes good purushaarth, he can get a high position or he will at least get the position of a subject. Om Shanti. (Concluded.)
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arjun
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
Disc.CD No.1159, dated 4.5.2011, Part-1 at Kakarbhitta, Jorsimal
Extracts-Part-1
Time: 4.23-9.44
Student: Baba, it has been said in the Murli that this America and Russia fight with each other; so, what are they in the unlimited in the knowledge?
Baba: It has been said for the Yadava (descendants of Yadu) community in the scriptures as well that pestles (muusal) came out from their stomach. Actually the word 'missiles' has been changed to 'muusal'. When you use a pestle, is it hit on a stone or is it hit on the ground so that a depression (mortar) is formed? In what do you use a pestle? You use it in a mortar. These are missiles, too. When they explode, they create a very deep crater in the land. These missiles did not come out from the stomach. Where did they come from? This is the stomach like intellect of the Christians, from where these missiles have come out; there are two categories among those Christians in the last. One is an atheist group and the other is a theist group. The atheist group is these Russians who do not believe in anything including the soul, the Supreme Soul, heaven and hell. And the other are the Yadavas, the residents of Europe, America. The intellect of the atheists became so sharp, so degraded that they prepared explosives, [i.e.] atom bombs to destroy the very world in which they live. They prepared it and the residents of Europe, America promoted it. They prepared a lot of explosives; they prepared a lot of atom bombs. Then a competition takes place between both. Both become each other's enemies, for this it has been written in the scriptures that pestles emerged from the stomach of the Yadavas and they fought with each other and perished.
So, they are brothers for each other. They are not residents of India. They are foreigners. The Third World War, i.e. the massive Mahabharata civil war takes place in India, in which the residents of India, i.e. the Pandavas as well as the Kauravas take part and along with them the makers of atom bombs and atomic weapons keep on supplying minor explosives to India and India's enemy countries. They become helpers, too. Whose? Of the Kauravas. They become helpers in the Third World War. But they do not give the big weapons and techniques. These big weapons will explode in the Fourth World War when the entire world will be destroyed. And those from the Yadava community will also perish. This is why Baba has said in the Murli that it has been written in the scriptures that pestles came out from the stomach of the Yadavas. With it they destroyed the entire world and they themselves perished, too.
Time: 9.48-10.54
Student: The rosary of 108 is common. The Christians also hold the rosary of eight [beads], because you 9 gems are unique.
Baba: Yes. Do the Christians have a sharper intellect when compared to the Indians or do they have a less sharp intellect? They are sharper. So, do they recognize the Father and the Father's helpers first or do they recognize them later? They recognize them first. They recognize the Father first and they also recognize the seven more helper beads of the Father, who are together called the eight deities. This is why the rosary of eight is famous among the Christians as well. It has been said so in the Murlis.
Time: 10.58-16.25
Student: Baba, it was mentioned just now in the Murli that Brahma himself is Prajapita, what was the intention behind saying this?
Baba: How many Brahmas are there? Are they one, two, four or five? Brahma is shown to have how many heads? Whose names are Chaturanan (the one with four heads), Panchanan (the one with five heads)? They are Brahma's names. It is said that one head in the form of Prajapita which started hurling abuses was cut. The soul of Ram himself becomes extremely tamopradhaan in the last period because he is everybody's Father. So, who should become the most tamopradhaan? The soul of Ram becomes the most tamopradhaan.That soul becomes instrument for the destruction of the entire world. So, the one who becomes instrument to destroy the entire world will become an instrument to gove birth as well because he is the Father of the entire world. This entire world is born only through that one seed and merges only in him. So, he is the first Brahma, who is the Father of the human world consisting of 500, 700 crore (five-seven billion) [souls]. He is the Father of the entire prajaa (subjects). The entire human world will not accept the other Brahmas. Who will the Brahmakumar-kumaris accept as their Father? They will accept only Brahma as their Father.
Similarly, there are more numberwise (at different levels) Brahmas who become Vishnu. Are the other Brahmas inert arms or do they have a living intellect? They are inert arms. They do not have the intelligence to think and churn and understand the Divine knowledge. They do not possess a living intellect. Some are upper arms, some are lower arms; some are right side arms, some are left side arms. But are the arms inert or do they have a living soul? What are they? Arms are just inert. Is anyone required or not to run those inert [arms]? The one who makes the inert arms, Brahmas work is that very Prajapita, in whom the living Shiva enters in a permanent form, clarifies the Divine knowledge or becomes instrument to clarify it. This is why one Brahma is main (mukhya). The rest are unimportant (gaun). This is why it has been said in the Murli that many have the name Brahma, but Prajapita Brahma is the name of only one. Now it is certain that all the numberwise Brahmas will be changed from Brahma to what in the end? They change from Brahma to Vishnu. This is why Vishnu's viraat ruup is shown in the Gita. But the name of Krishna has been inserted by mistake. It is not about the viraat ruup of Krishna alias Dada Lekhraj. The gigantic form is of Prajapita. He is the seed through whom the tree consisting of 500, 700 crore leaves gets ready. It also includes those with animal like nature. Animal heads have also been shown in the gigantic form. Heads of birds, heads of demons, heads of Brahmins, heads of sages and great sages as well as deities have been shown. ... (to be continued.)
Extracts-Part-1
Time: 4.23-9.44
Student: Baba, it has been said in the Murli that this America and Russia fight with each other; so, what are they in the unlimited in the knowledge?
Baba: It has been said for the Yadava (descendants of Yadu) community in the scriptures as well that pestles (muusal) came out from their stomach. Actually the word 'missiles' has been changed to 'muusal'. When you use a pestle, is it hit on a stone or is it hit on the ground so that a depression (mortar) is formed? In what do you use a pestle? You use it in a mortar. These are missiles, too. When they explode, they create a very deep crater in the land. These missiles did not come out from the stomach. Where did they come from? This is the stomach like intellect of the Christians, from where these missiles have come out; there are two categories among those Christians in the last. One is an atheist group and the other is a theist group. The atheist group is these Russians who do not believe in anything including the soul, the Supreme Soul, heaven and hell. And the other are the Yadavas, the residents of Europe, America. The intellect of the atheists became so sharp, so degraded that they prepared explosives, [i.e.] atom bombs to destroy the very world in which they live. They prepared it and the residents of Europe, America promoted it. They prepared a lot of explosives; they prepared a lot of atom bombs. Then a competition takes place between both. Both become each other's enemies, for this it has been written in the scriptures that pestles emerged from the stomach of the Yadavas and they fought with each other and perished.
So, they are brothers for each other. They are not residents of India. They are foreigners. The Third World War, i.e. the massive Mahabharata civil war takes place in India, in which the residents of India, i.e. the Pandavas as well as the Kauravas take part and along with them the makers of atom bombs and atomic weapons keep on supplying minor explosives to India and India's enemy countries. They become helpers, too. Whose? Of the Kauravas. They become helpers in the Third World War. But they do not give the big weapons and techniques. These big weapons will explode in the Fourth World War when the entire world will be destroyed. And those from the Yadava community will also perish. This is why Baba has said in the Murli that it has been written in the scriptures that pestles came out from the stomach of the Yadavas. With it they destroyed the entire world and they themselves perished, too.
Time: 9.48-10.54
Student: The rosary of 108 is common. The Christians also hold the rosary of eight [beads], because you 9 gems are unique.
Baba: Yes. Do the Christians have a sharper intellect when compared to the Indians or do they have a less sharp intellect? They are sharper. So, do they recognize the Father and the Father's helpers first or do they recognize them later? They recognize them first. They recognize the Father first and they also recognize the seven more helper beads of the Father, who are together called the eight deities. This is why the rosary of eight is famous among the Christians as well. It has been said so in the Murlis.
Time: 10.58-16.25
Student: Baba, it was mentioned just now in the Murli that Brahma himself is Prajapita, what was the intention behind saying this?
Baba: How many Brahmas are there? Are they one, two, four or five? Brahma is shown to have how many heads? Whose names are Chaturanan (the one with four heads), Panchanan (the one with five heads)? They are Brahma's names. It is said that one head in the form of Prajapita which started hurling abuses was cut. The soul of Ram himself becomes extremely tamopradhaan in the last period because he is everybody's Father. So, who should become the most tamopradhaan? The soul of Ram becomes the most tamopradhaan.That soul becomes instrument for the destruction of the entire world. So, the one who becomes instrument to destroy the entire world will become an instrument to gove birth as well because he is the Father of the entire world. This entire world is born only through that one seed and merges only in him. So, he is the first Brahma, who is the Father of the human world consisting of 500, 700 crore (five-seven billion) [souls]. He is the Father of the entire prajaa (subjects). The entire human world will not accept the other Brahmas. Who will the Brahmakumar-kumaris accept as their Father? They will accept only Brahma as their Father.
Similarly, there are more numberwise (at different levels) Brahmas who become Vishnu. Are the other Brahmas inert arms or do they have a living intellect? They are inert arms. They do not have the intelligence to think and churn and understand the Divine knowledge. They do not possess a living intellect. Some are upper arms, some are lower arms; some are right side arms, some are left side arms. But are the arms inert or do they have a living soul? What are they? Arms are just inert. Is anyone required or not to run those inert [arms]? The one who makes the inert arms, Brahmas work is that very Prajapita, in whom the living Shiva enters in a permanent form, clarifies the Divine knowledge or becomes instrument to clarify it. This is why one Brahma is main (mukhya). The rest are unimportant (gaun). This is why it has been said in the Murli that many have the name Brahma, but Prajapita Brahma is the name of only one. Now it is certain that all the numberwise Brahmas will be changed from Brahma to what in the end? They change from Brahma to Vishnu. This is why Vishnu's viraat ruup is shown in the Gita. But the name of Krishna has been inserted by mistake. It is not about the viraat ruup of Krishna alias Dada Lekhraj. The gigantic form is of Prajapita. He is the seed through whom the tree consisting of 500, 700 crore leaves gets ready. It also includes those with animal like nature. Animal heads have also been shown in the gigantic form. Heads of birds, heads of demons, heads of Brahmins, heads of sages and great sages as well as deities have been shown. ... (to be continued.)
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arjun
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
Disc.CD No.1159, dated 4.5.2011, Part-1 at Kakarbhitta, Jorsimal
Extracts-Part-2
Time: 16.56-17.25
Question: Is there one or the other goodness or not in each of the 500, 700 crore (five – seven billion) souls?
Baba: Arey, when they are satopradhaan, they will have goodness, too. And when they are tamopradhaan, they become bad.
Time: 17.49-20.26
Question: What is meant by ‘a soul’s part repeats as it is’? It is about the part of which time?
Baba: Arey, it is about the part of all the time in the 5000 years. Whenever a new Kalpa (cycle) of 5000 years begins, it will repeat as it had repeated in the previous Kalpa, whether it pertains to the beginning, middle or the end, whether it pertains to the first birth, the middle births or the last births. The soul is a record.
Student: There is a record from the time the soul has come, isn' it?
Baba: When did you come?
Student: I don’t know that, but I have definitely come, haven’t I?
Baba: Yes, the time of arrival is fixed for every soul in this world. Some [soul] comes in the beginning of the Golden Age; some [soul] comes from the golden Confluence Age itself. It comes even before the Golden Age. Some comes in the Silver Age, some in the Copper Age, some comes in the Iron Age. The soul who comes in the Iron Age will play a part of just the Iron Age. Even when it comes in the Iron Age, it will play a satopradhaan, good part in the beginning and what kind of a part will it play in the end? It will play a tamopradhaan part. For example, nowadays which yogi is very popular in India? Ramdev is popular. When the name of Ramdev became well-known in the beginning, then did he commercialize the world or was he far away from the commercial world? And what has he become now? Now his entire business has become commercial. So, similarly, every soul is satopradhaan in the beginning and later on it becomes tamopradhaan. This respect and position is such that it takes the entire world into ditch.
Time: 20.39-25.21
Question: Someone has asked: If a soul’s part repeats as it is; why do we need to remember, do sadhanaa (study), obtain knowledge?
Baba: Do we remember the part that a soul has played for many births? We don’t remember anything. When we don’t remember at all, then as are the thoughts we create, so shall our world of thoughts of many births be formed. Some create more negative thoughts; some create more positive thoughts. Are those who create more negative thoughts ignorant or knnowledgeable? They are ignorant. Negative means that they speak, act against whatever the Supreme Soul Father has spoken.
The Father says that the drama repeats as it is, but they start creating negative thoughts: ‘How can this be possible? –That it repeats as it is?’ Arey, ‘repeats as it is’ is not about this birth. It is about how many births? It is about many births. That has been a long time ago. We don’t know anything about it at all. Yes, the reel of the entire drama is rotating now. When good sanskaars emerge in that reel, then we create good, positive thoughts. And when bad sanskaars emerge, then howevermuch knowledge someone has obtained, yet he creates just negative thoughts. So, when we don’t know anything at all about the past births, then how can we believe that the same thing will repeat through our remembrance? If you remember well, then [good part] will repeat. If you don’t remember well, if you don’t make good purushaarth (spiritual effort), if you don’t do good sadhanaa, then what should you think? Were your many births good or were they bad? They were bad. Now the Supreme Soul Father has given the fortune of many births in our fist. If we wish, we can make it the best, we can make a world of happiness for many births and if we wish, we can make a world of sorrow for many births. The rest depends on our thoughts.
Student: Baba, some say that we must have created good thoughts in the previous Kalpa; so....
Baba: Eat [food] if you will have eaten it in the previous Kalpa. Why do you enter the kitchen to cook food? Answer [me].
Student: Baba, food is not applicable to the soul.
Baba: Why isn’t food applicable to the soul? Aren’t thoughts the food for the soul? (Student: They are.) Just as the food for physical body is physical, similarly the soul’s food is thoughts, if you wish you can consume the food of the best thoughts or the food of the worst thoughts.
Student: Baba, if a soul has just one kind of record...
Baba: How can a soul have only one kind of record? Which soul contains only one kind of record, [the record] of just negativity? Now, you yourself have writtten in this. You have asked: ‘When a soul’s part repeats as it is, then does only the good part repeat or does the bad part also repeat?’ It means that you yourself are confused whether every soul contains only good part or bad part as well? It contains good as well as bad [part]. If we have obtained God's knowledge, if we have firm faith that God has come; then after having a firm faith we should follow Gods’s words 100 percent. If we mix our mind’s opinion in it or if we mix the opinion of human beings in it, then we will suffer just loss. ... (to be continued.)
Extracts-Part-2
Time: 16.56-17.25
Question: Is there one or the other goodness or not in each of the 500, 700 crore (five – seven billion) souls?
Baba: Arey, when they are satopradhaan, they will have goodness, too. And when they are tamopradhaan, they become bad.
Time: 17.49-20.26
Question: What is meant by ‘a soul’s part repeats as it is’? It is about the part of which time?
Baba: Arey, it is about the part of all the time in the 5000 years. Whenever a new Kalpa (cycle) of 5000 years begins, it will repeat as it had repeated in the previous Kalpa, whether it pertains to the beginning, middle or the end, whether it pertains to the first birth, the middle births or the last births. The soul is a record.
Student: There is a record from the time the soul has come, isn' it?
Baba: When did you come?
Student: I don’t know that, but I have definitely come, haven’t I?
Baba: Yes, the time of arrival is fixed for every soul in this world. Some [soul] comes in the beginning of the Golden Age; some [soul] comes from the golden Confluence Age itself. It comes even before the Golden Age. Some comes in the Silver Age, some in the Copper Age, some comes in the Iron Age. The soul who comes in the Iron Age will play a part of just the Iron Age. Even when it comes in the Iron Age, it will play a satopradhaan, good part in the beginning and what kind of a part will it play in the end? It will play a tamopradhaan part. For example, nowadays which yogi is very popular in India? Ramdev is popular. When the name of Ramdev became well-known in the beginning, then did he commercialize the world or was he far away from the commercial world? And what has he become now? Now his entire business has become commercial. So, similarly, every soul is satopradhaan in the beginning and later on it becomes tamopradhaan. This respect and position is such that it takes the entire world into ditch.
Time: 20.39-25.21
Question: Someone has asked: If a soul’s part repeats as it is; why do we need to remember, do sadhanaa (study), obtain knowledge?
Baba: Do we remember the part that a soul has played for many births? We don’t remember anything. When we don’t remember at all, then as are the thoughts we create, so shall our world of thoughts of many births be formed. Some create more negative thoughts; some create more positive thoughts. Are those who create more negative thoughts ignorant or knnowledgeable? They are ignorant. Negative means that they speak, act against whatever the Supreme Soul Father has spoken.
The Father says that the drama repeats as it is, but they start creating negative thoughts: ‘How can this be possible? –That it repeats as it is?’ Arey, ‘repeats as it is’ is not about this birth. It is about how many births? It is about many births. That has been a long time ago. We don’t know anything about it at all. Yes, the reel of the entire drama is rotating now. When good sanskaars emerge in that reel, then we create good, positive thoughts. And when bad sanskaars emerge, then howevermuch knowledge someone has obtained, yet he creates just negative thoughts. So, when we don’t know anything at all about the past births, then how can we believe that the same thing will repeat through our remembrance? If you remember well, then [good part] will repeat. If you don’t remember well, if you don’t make good purushaarth (spiritual effort), if you don’t do good sadhanaa, then what should you think? Were your many births good or were they bad? They were bad. Now the Supreme Soul Father has given the fortune of many births in our fist. If we wish, we can make it the best, we can make a world of happiness for many births and if we wish, we can make a world of sorrow for many births. The rest depends on our thoughts.
Student: Baba, some say that we must have created good thoughts in the previous Kalpa; so....
Baba: Eat [food] if you will have eaten it in the previous Kalpa. Why do you enter the kitchen to cook food? Answer [me].
Student: Baba, food is not applicable to the soul.
Baba: Why isn’t food applicable to the soul? Aren’t thoughts the food for the soul? (Student: They are.) Just as the food for physical body is physical, similarly the soul’s food is thoughts, if you wish you can consume the food of the best thoughts or the food of the worst thoughts.
Student: Baba, if a soul has just one kind of record...
Baba: How can a soul have only one kind of record? Which soul contains only one kind of record, [the record] of just negativity? Now, you yourself have writtten in this. You have asked: ‘When a soul’s part repeats as it is, then does only the good part repeat or does the bad part also repeat?’ It means that you yourself are confused whether every soul contains only good part or bad part as well? It contains good as well as bad [part]. If we have obtained God's knowledge, if we have firm faith that God has come; then after having a firm faith we should follow Gods’s words 100 percent. If we mix our mind’s opinion in it or if we mix the opinion of human beings in it, then we will suffer just loss. ... (to be continued.)
-
arjun
- PBK
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
Disc.CD No.1159, dated 4.5.2011, Part-1 at Kakarbhitta, Jorsimal
Extracts-Part-3
Time: 25.30-31.23
Student: What is meant by 'muut paliti kapad dhoti'?
Baba: 'Muut paliti kapad dhoti' means… the Sikhs have also said 'muut paliti kapad dhoti' but they said this for Guru Nanak. And what is meant by cloth (kapda)? The body is called cloth. Did Guru Nanak come and wash clothes? Did anyone receive clothes like that of the deities? No. The bodies decay even more. Bad odour emanates from the pores of the body. So, are the bodies becoming pure or are they becoming sinful? Are the clothes being washed or are they becoming dirtier? They are becoming dirtier. This is not about Guru Nanak or any human guru because the world is experiencing downfall. No human guru can wash the cloth like bodies of anyone. Souls are also becoming sinful and their clothes are also becoming sinful. It is the glory of only the one Sadguru who comes and washes all the clothes through the colour of company. Does He first wash the soul or the body? First He washes the soul. So, which reel is rotating now? Which machinery is going on? Is the machinery of washing the soul going on or is the machinery of washing the cloth like bodies going on? The machinery of washing the soul is going on. Will that soul be washed through knowledge or is it about the physical water? It is about the water of knowledge. The more we imbibe the Divine knowledge in the intellect with faith, belief and devotion, the more our soul's dirt will be removed. We will remain joyful. We will automatically receive the answers for everyone’s questions. It is as if God, the Father will enter us and give an answer for every one’s question.
So, 'muut paliti kapad dhoti' means that the human being has become muut paliti (dirtied with the urine of lust) today like a buffalo. For example, a buffalo or a rhino rolls in mud. Similarly, the intellect of human beings rolls in mud. It keeps thinking about vices. It has become muut paliti. The body also rolls in mud. They want to become free, but cannot become free. It is the favour of only one Sadguru that when He is revealed in the world, then what do the human souls become through the colour of His company? They become pure. First the soul becomes pure, then the bodies will also become pure. Now the bodies go on rotting and the soul goes on becoming powerful. It has been said in the Murli that the bodies will go on rotting and the soul will go on becoming powerful. Until when? Until we have entered the new world. It has been said that I give the inheritance of heaven amidst the world of hell. Only those souls whose thoughts will have become completely pure will receive the inheritance of heaven. There should not be any kind of impurity in the thoughts. The intellect should bring benefit to the self as well as the companions and there should be a feeling of benefit even for those who have not become your companions. The thought of harming anyone should not enter your intellect. That will be called a purified intellect.
This is why it has been said that this laundry (dhobighat) was going on in the beginning of the Yagya as well. Baba says: What am even I? Even I am a washerman (dhobi); I come as a washerman. I wash your soul as well as the cloth like bodies. The boatman of the soul as well as the boat like body is only the one Father. It has been said so in the Murli. It is not that only the soul will become pure and go to the new world. The soul will become pure and the body will also become pure and go to the Golden Age. The impure bodies will not go [there]. The pure bodies will go to the Golden Age; only then will there be a divine birth or will there be [divine birth] with impure bodies? There will be the birth of pure children like Krishna who are perfect in 16 celestial degrees.
Time: 34.30-37.23
Student: Baba, it has been mentioned in the Avyakt Vani that the board of too-late has been displayed.
Baba: The board of too-late has been displayed; it means that the too-late board was displayed in 1976 for one couple. It was declared in 1966 that the kingdom of Lakshmi and Narayan is going to come after 10 years; the old world is going to be destroyed and the new world is going to arrive. So, that was about one couple. The board of too late was displayed. They were revealed. After that the topic of three personalities was mentioned. The three personalities were also revealed. It will be said for those three personalities that the board of too late was displayed. Who is the personality that plays the part of Brahma in practice in this world? Who is personality playing the part of Vishnu, who is the cloth of the flag [representing Vishnu] in practice? And who is the personality playing the part in the form of Shankar who [proves the saying] ‘Truth alone triumphs’ (satyamev jayate)? Who is the personality for whom non-violence is the supreme religion? Which are these three personalities in whose memorial, in the memorial of whose cloth like bodies our flag (tricolor) has been prepared? It is hoisted in every lane; people say: ‘It will conquer the world’.
Student said something.
Baba: Arey, are they the three personalities or not? Are those three cloths a memorial of physical cloths or are they a memorial of living cloths? Will a physical cloth conquer the world? Definitely there are three souls with different feelings, natures and sanskaars and they are souls of only India and it is the flag of India alone which gains victory over the world. There is no other flag of the world which has conquered the entire world. Be it Hitler, be it Napoleon, or anyone, be it Mussolini. All of them came to the world; they came with their ambitions that they will rule over the entire world. Alexander came. They rubbed their nose and departed. Nobody conquered the world. It is the glory of only one Shankar. What is the glory? Vishwanath (Lord of the world) Shankar conquers the world. He does not work through physical power. How does he work? He obtains the emperorship of the world through the power of Yoga. ... (to be continued.)
Extracts-Part-3
Time: 25.30-31.23
Student: What is meant by 'muut paliti kapad dhoti'?
Baba: 'Muut paliti kapad dhoti' means… the Sikhs have also said 'muut paliti kapad dhoti' but they said this for Guru Nanak. And what is meant by cloth (kapda)? The body is called cloth. Did Guru Nanak come and wash clothes? Did anyone receive clothes like that of the deities? No. The bodies decay even more. Bad odour emanates from the pores of the body. So, are the bodies becoming pure or are they becoming sinful? Are the clothes being washed or are they becoming dirtier? They are becoming dirtier. This is not about Guru Nanak or any human guru because the world is experiencing downfall. No human guru can wash the cloth like bodies of anyone. Souls are also becoming sinful and their clothes are also becoming sinful. It is the glory of only the one Sadguru who comes and washes all the clothes through the colour of company. Does He first wash the soul or the body? First He washes the soul. So, which reel is rotating now? Which machinery is going on? Is the machinery of washing the soul going on or is the machinery of washing the cloth like bodies going on? The machinery of washing the soul is going on. Will that soul be washed through knowledge or is it about the physical water? It is about the water of knowledge. The more we imbibe the Divine knowledge in the intellect with faith, belief and devotion, the more our soul's dirt will be removed. We will remain joyful. We will automatically receive the answers for everyone’s questions. It is as if God, the Father will enter us and give an answer for every one’s question.
So, 'muut paliti kapad dhoti' means that the human being has become muut paliti (dirtied with the urine of lust) today like a buffalo. For example, a buffalo or a rhino rolls in mud. Similarly, the intellect of human beings rolls in mud. It keeps thinking about vices. It has become muut paliti. The body also rolls in mud. They want to become free, but cannot become free. It is the favour of only one Sadguru that when He is revealed in the world, then what do the human souls become through the colour of His company? They become pure. First the soul becomes pure, then the bodies will also become pure. Now the bodies go on rotting and the soul goes on becoming powerful. It has been said in the Murli that the bodies will go on rotting and the soul will go on becoming powerful. Until when? Until we have entered the new world. It has been said that I give the inheritance of heaven amidst the world of hell. Only those souls whose thoughts will have become completely pure will receive the inheritance of heaven. There should not be any kind of impurity in the thoughts. The intellect should bring benefit to the self as well as the companions and there should be a feeling of benefit even for those who have not become your companions. The thought of harming anyone should not enter your intellect. That will be called a purified intellect.
This is why it has been said that this laundry (dhobighat) was going on in the beginning of the Yagya as well. Baba says: What am even I? Even I am a washerman (dhobi); I come as a washerman. I wash your soul as well as the cloth like bodies. The boatman of the soul as well as the boat like body is only the one Father. It has been said so in the Murli. It is not that only the soul will become pure and go to the new world. The soul will become pure and the body will also become pure and go to the Golden Age. The impure bodies will not go [there]. The pure bodies will go to the Golden Age; only then will there be a divine birth or will there be [divine birth] with impure bodies? There will be the birth of pure children like Krishna who are perfect in 16 celestial degrees.
Time: 34.30-37.23
Student: Baba, it has been mentioned in the Avyakt Vani that the board of too-late has been displayed.
Baba: The board of too-late has been displayed; it means that the too-late board was displayed in 1976 for one couple. It was declared in 1966 that the kingdom of Lakshmi and Narayan is going to come after 10 years; the old world is going to be destroyed and the new world is going to arrive. So, that was about one couple. The board of too late was displayed. They were revealed. After that the topic of three personalities was mentioned. The three personalities were also revealed. It will be said for those three personalities that the board of too late was displayed. Who is the personality that plays the part of Brahma in practice in this world? Who is personality playing the part of Vishnu, who is the cloth of the flag [representing Vishnu] in practice? And who is the personality playing the part in the form of Shankar who [proves the saying] ‘Truth alone triumphs’ (satyamev jayate)? Who is the personality for whom non-violence is the supreme religion? Which are these three personalities in whose memorial, in the memorial of whose cloth like bodies our flag (tricolor) has been prepared? It is hoisted in every lane; people say: ‘It will conquer the world’.
Student said something.
Baba: Arey, are they the three personalities or not? Are those three cloths a memorial of physical cloths or are they a memorial of living cloths? Will a physical cloth conquer the world? Definitely there are three souls with different feelings, natures and sanskaars and they are souls of only India and it is the flag of India alone which gains victory over the world. There is no other flag of the world which has conquered the entire world. Be it Hitler, be it Napoleon, or anyone, be it Mussolini. All of them came to the world; they came with their ambitions that they will rule over the entire world. Alexander came. They rubbed their nose and departed. Nobody conquered the world. It is the glory of only one Shankar. What is the glory? Vishwanath (Lord of the world) Shankar conquers the world. He does not work through physical power. How does he work? He obtains the emperorship of the world through the power of Yoga. ... (to be continued.)
-
arjun
- PBK
- Posts: 12239
- Joined: 01 May 2006
- Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
- Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
- Location: India
Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
Disc.CD No.1159, dated 4.5.2011, Part-1 at Kakarbhitta, Jorsimal
Extracts-Part-4
Time: 37.26-39.45
Student: Baba, some brothers in the advance [party] are such that they opened gitapathshalas, put up the four pictures as well. They followed the path for two-three years with a lot of enthusiasm. Now they have removed those four pictures. And now they teach lessons [saying:] ‘Jai Hanuman gyaan gun saagar… ’ by displaying all the pictures of the path of Bhakti. And when we go to do service, they scold us, meaning they do not allow us to do service. So, which shooting is taking place, Baba?
Baba: Is the world small or big? (Student: It is big.) So, in this big world you can go anywhere for service. Will they stop [you] in the entire world?
Student: ... they narrate dirty things to their husbands and make them get scoldings. So, the mothers are also unable to do service due to fear. They are neither able to come to the sangathan (gathering classes) nor are they able to attend class.
Baba: You are not facing any bondage (bandhan) now. In future, when the final paper (examination) of Maya takes place, then defamation will be broadcasted on the TV; people will watch TV in every house. Defamation will be published in the newspapers. Defamation will take place through the internet; there will be defamation and only defamation everywhere through radio. The very name is Kalankidhar . Those in whose intellect it does not sit that who plays the part of muut paliti kapad dhoti; who is this Satguru? If they do not realize, will they defame or will they glorify Him? They will just defame. Will the number of those who defame be more or will the number of those who glorify Him be more? The number of those who defame will be more. The number of those who glorify Him will reach 16108 in the end in the world consisting of 500-700 crore [people]. They will just glorify Him. Those gop-gopis (cow herds and herd girls) are famous as gupt purushaarthis (those who make secret spiritual effort) who will recognize the hidden Father.
Time: 40.45-41.46
Student: The Osho religion of Rajnish; when they come in contact with us and when we start narrating knowledge to them, then nothing [of ours] matches with them. For example, they believe neither in the soul nor the Supreme Soul. Neither do they mention about the scriptures, nor anything about the knowledge. They speak of unrelated topics. How can we explain to them?
Baba: This is the condition of all the gurus. This is the condition of the followers of all the gurus. They believe only their guru to be God. So, how will they accept your knowledge?
Student: No, is there any method to explain to them…?
Baba: To hell with these gurus! [Narrate knowledge to] the poor children of the Father, the innocent children. He is called Bholanath (lord of the innocent ones), is not He? Narrate to those in whose intellect it sits easily. If you narrate to a hundred people, then one person will emerge. It has been said so in the Murli. Then, why do you feel unhappy?
Time: 42.14-42.58
Question: It is asked: When a soul's downfall takes place, then the promotion of the soul should also take place.
Baba: Doesn't it take place? Downfall as well as promotion takes place. Sometimes a soul feels very enthusiastic and makes very good purushaarth. We feel: today we remembered [Baba] very well. Sometimes we get such thoughts that even if we don’t wish, the stage falls completely. This keeps happening. Until the karmic accounts of good and bad actions of the 63 births have been cleared, this will continue to happen.
Time: 43.13-46.10
Question: Can a soul that has one birth become a soul that has 3, 4 or 84 births through remembrance and saadhanaa or not?
Baba: Tell [me]. Arey, a soul is a record; it is a living record. It will play whatever is recorded in it. Howevermuch it tries to become a deity who has 84 births he will not become that at all. Only that negativity will come in it if it is the one who has a single birth.
Student: This is what I wanted to ask by saying demotion and promotion. Will it never get promotion from one birth to two births?
Baba: Will that soul come in the knowledge in the end or will it come now? (Student said something.) Answer what I am asking. Will a soul that has one birth enter the path of knowledge now or will it enter in the last shooting? When will it come? You did not think over this point at all.
Student: I have thought.
Baba: Yes, what did you think? Will it come in the last…?
Student: Some soul has 83 births, some has 82 births, some has 81 births, some has 80 births, some has 79 births. So can the one who has 79 births have 80, 81 births or not? That is the topic. One birth is just an exmple.
Baba: Arey, if the one who has one birth can make purushaarth to have three, four births, then can’t he make purushaarth to have 84 births? He can. But this cannot be possible. The soul that has one birth will come at the fag end of the shooting. And when it comes in the end, at that time in the end how will the atmosphere of the world be? Will it be an atmosphere of peace to understand the knowledge or will there be an atmosphere of complete restlessness? (Student: An atmosphere of disturbance.) So, will it be able to obtain knowledge? When it will not be able to obtain knowledge at all, will it be able to grasp knowledge? Will it be able to make purushaarth? Will it be able to do saadhanaa? It cannot do at all.
Student: There will be contact in the Confluence Age, won’t there?
Baba: With whom will there be a contact?
Student: It can be with God.
Baba: They will come in contact with God only to the extent of listeing [the knowledge]. It will be only to the extent of seeing Him in the newspaper. It cannot be more than that. The 16,108 are very elevated souls, who establish a connection with God through all relationships in the form of gop-gopis. They take the colour of His company. ... (to be continued.)
Extracts-Part-4
Time: 37.26-39.45
Student: Baba, some brothers in the advance [party] are such that they opened gitapathshalas, put up the four pictures as well. They followed the path for two-three years with a lot of enthusiasm. Now they have removed those four pictures. And now they teach lessons [saying:] ‘Jai Hanuman gyaan gun saagar… ’ by displaying all the pictures of the path of Bhakti. And when we go to do service, they scold us, meaning they do not allow us to do service. So, which shooting is taking place, Baba?
Baba: Is the world small or big? (Student: It is big.) So, in this big world you can go anywhere for service. Will they stop [you] in the entire world?
Student: ... they narrate dirty things to their husbands and make them get scoldings. So, the mothers are also unable to do service due to fear. They are neither able to come to the sangathan (gathering classes) nor are they able to attend class.
Baba: You are not facing any bondage (bandhan) now. In future, when the final paper (examination) of Maya takes place, then defamation will be broadcasted on the TV; people will watch TV in every house. Defamation will be published in the newspapers. Defamation will take place through the internet; there will be defamation and only defamation everywhere through radio. The very name is Kalankidhar . Those in whose intellect it does not sit that who plays the part of muut paliti kapad dhoti; who is this Satguru? If they do not realize, will they defame or will they glorify Him? They will just defame. Will the number of those who defame be more or will the number of those who glorify Him be more? The number of those who defame will be more. The number of those who glorify Him will reach 16108 in the end in the world consisting of 500-700 crore [people]. They will just glorify Him. Those gop-gopis (cow herds and herd girls) are famous as gupt purushaarthis (those who make secret spiritual effort) who will recognize the hidden Father.
Time: 40.45-41.46
Student: The Osho religion of Rajnish; when they come in contact with us and when we start narrating knowledge to them, then nothing [of ours] matches with them. For example, they believe neither in the soul nor the Supreme Soul. Neither do they mention about the scriptures, nor anything about the knowledge. They speak of unrelated topics. How can we explain to them?
Baba: This is the condition of all the gurus. This is the condition of the followers of all the gurus. They believe only their guru to be God. So, how will they accept your knowledge?
Student: No, is there any method to explain to them…?
Baba: To hell with these gurus! [Narrate knowledge to] the poor children of the Father, the innocent children. He is called Bholanath (lord of the innocent ones), is not He? Narrate to those in whose intellect it sits easily. If you narrate to a hundred people, then one person will emerge. It has been said so in the Murli. Then, why do you feel unhappy?
Time: 42.14-42.58
Question: It is asked: When a soul's downfall takes place, then the promotion of the soul should also take place.
Baba: Doesn't it take place? Downfall as well as promotion takes place. Sometimes a soul feels very enthusiastic and makes very good purushaarth. We feel: today we remembered [Baba] very well. Sometimes we get such thoughts that even if we don’t wish, the stage falls completely. This keeps happening. Until the karmic accounts of good and bad actions of the 63 births have been cleared, this will continue to happen.
Time: 43.13-46.10
Question: Can a soul that has one birth become a soul that has 3, 4 or 84 births through remembrance and saadhanaa or not?
Baba: Tell [me]. Arey, a soul is a record; it is a living record. It will play whatever is recorded in it. Howevermuch it tries to become a deity who has 84 births he will not become that at all. Only that negativity will come in it if it is the one who has a single birth.
Student: This is what I wanted to ask by saying demotion and promotion. Will it never get promotion from one birth to two births?
Baba: Will that soul come in the knowledge in the end or will it come now? (Student said something.) Answer what I am asking. Will a soul that has one birth enter the path of knowledge now or will it enter in the last shooting? When will it come? You did not think over this point at all.
Student: I have thought.
Baba: Yes, what did you think? Will it come in the last…?
Student: Some soul has 83 births, some has 82 births, some has 81 births, some has 80 births, some has 79 births. So can the one who has 79 births have 80, 81 births or not? That is the topic. One birth is just an exmple.
Baba: Arey, if the one who has one birth can make purushaarth to have three, four births, then can’t he make purushaarth to have 84 births? He can. But this cannot be possible. The soul that has one birth will come at the fag end of the shooting. And when it comes in the end, at that time in the end how will the atmosphere of the world be? Will it be an atmosphere of peace to understand the knowledge or will there be an atmosphere of complete restlessness? (Student: An atmosphere of disturbance.) So, will it be able to obtain knowledge? When it will not be able to obtain knowledge at all, will it be able to grasp knowledge? Will it be able to make purushaarth? Will it be able to do saadhanaa? It cannot do at all.
Student: There will be contact in the Confluence Age, won’t there?
Baba: With whom will there be a contact?
Student: It can be with God.
Baba: They will come in contact with God only to the extent of listeing [the knowledge]. It will be only to the extent of seeing Him in the newspaper. It cannot be more than that. The 16,108 are very elevated souls, who establish a connection with God through all relationships in the form of gop-gopis. They take the colour of His company. ... (to be continued.)
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arjun
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
Disc.CD No.1159, dated 4.5.2011, Part-1 at Kakarbhitta, Jorsimal
Extracts-Part-5
Time: 46.30-47.14
Question: Baba, the Suryavanshis (those belonging to the Sun dynasty) will face the final test in the end. So, won’t the Chandravanshis (those belonging to the Moon dynasty) face it? They should also face the test.
Baba: Will the people of all the religions face the tests simultaneously or numberwise (at different times)? (Someone said: Numberwise.) Who should face it first? The Suryavanshis should face the test first. They will face first; then the Chandravanshis will face it, then the Islamvanshis (those belonging to the Islam dynasty) will face it. They will definitely face the tests.
Time: 47.36-50.52
Baba: Someone has asked: Baba, I and my husband, both know this knowledge; understand it. And we also followed it well. Moreover, it was he who first brought me to this path of knowledge. I did not used to accept initially. But Baba, now he raises a lot of objections on maintaining purity. We will do it, it will happen gradually. I want him to undergo the bhatti once again and make him leave the path of impurity.
Baba: The mother who is asking this question forgets, what is the title Baba has given to men? Duryodhan-Dushasan . Duryodhans and Dushasans wage a wicked war (dusht yuddh). They do not agree. If they find solitude (ekaant) they will definitely start the war of wickedness. If the weak women (ablaa) do not agree, they will make them impure forcibly by even tying her hands and legs. This will be called a wicked war. Besides, human beings possess intellect. If they want to fight with Maya, if they want to test each other, then is there any need to resort to beatings or should they work with the support of each other? They should work with the consent of each other. If anyone falls, they should try to uplift him. To indulge in beatings, to use force, not giving money to eat food, to evict someone from the house is the war by Duryodhan and Dushasan. It is a wicked rule (dusht shaasan). And men definitely do this. Some do to a lesser extent and some do to a greater extent. Some do it today; some will do it tomorrow. Today it is a satopradhaan stage; they have entered the path of knowledge newly, they have a lot of zeal and enthusiasm. Tomorrow? Tomorrow they will become tamopradhaan. And then Baba has said that all men are Duryodhans and Dushasans. He hasn't spared even Brahma and Shankar. Who is included and who is excluded from 'everyone'? Is anyone excluded? Everyone means 500 crore. All the human beings, all the men among the 500 crore are Duryodhans and Dushasan, some to a lesser extent and some to a greater extent.
Time: 51.44-52.40
Question: Your religious war is with the scholars and pandits. Religious war (dharmayuddh) is not called a fight.
Baba: What is meant by adharmayuddh (irreligious war)? Both are fights. They will fight with words. One will narrate ignorance through the mouth and the other will narrate topics of knowledge. Is that not a war? That is also a war. But what is dharmayuddh and what is adharmayuddh? Just now it was said that do the Duryodhans and Dushasans fight dharmayuddh or adharmayuddh? They fight adharmayudh. Violent war is an irreligious war and non-violent war is a religious war.
Time: 53.08-56.37
Question: Recently a big volcano (jvalamukhi) erupted from the ocean bed near Japan. So, Baba something must have happened in the unlimited as well.
Baba: Will it have happened or not? Will it have happened in a small form in the unlimited or will it have happened in a big form? It will happen in a small form in the unlimited because is a small world being established or a big world being established now? A small world is being established. In the small world that is being established, will a unit of family become ready first or will numerous families become ready in the capital? A unit will become ready. That unit is mentioned to be the unit of eight. It is a family of eight. Those eight are ancestors (puurvaj) of the entire world. Ancestors mean those who are born first of all. Yes, some one is the ancestor of the Sun dynasty. Someone is the ancestor of the Moon dynasty. Someone is the ancestor of the Islam dynasty. Some one is the ancestor of the Buddhist dynasty. So, something must be going on in the mind of the ancestor of the Buddhist religion, which bursts in the form of a volcano and does harm.
Is whatever happens beneficial or harmful? The Second World War took place; even in that it was Japan which suffered the highest losss. Was it beneficial or harmful? (Someone said: It was beneficial.) What was beneficial? After facing a blow, Japan went ahead of everyone in technology. Even now it is like this. These are the seed form souls of the five Pandavas. Dharmaraj Yudhishthir is the seed of the Sun dynasty. There is a seed of the Moon dynasty, there is a seed of the Buddhist religion as well. [It is said for him:] intelligent man Arjun and there is a seed of the Sanyas religion as well; these are Indian religions; and there is a seed of the Sikh religion too; the names of Nakul and Sahdev are famous. These seeds of the five Indian religions are counted as the five Pandavas. So, does Arjun talk of sorrow first of all, does he feel sorrowful or does he become enthusiastic at once? First there is unhappiness; he faces a blow; then he becomes alert.
Time: 56.55-59.08
Question: The population of those who belong to the Deity Religion should be more than those of all other religions. But they have now converted that is why their population is less. This is also a drama. A good intellect is required to understand this.
Baba: The questioner has not mentioned the question at all. What is there to understand in this? The population of those who belong to the Deity Religion should be more than those who belong to all other religions. But in the Indian region the population of those who belong to all other religions is more now. Leave alone the topic of the entire India. See the capital Delhi. Everyone follows just Delhi. If you want to see the atmosphere of entire India, then see the atmosphere of Delhi. Do people of any particular religion live in Delhi in greater numbers or do the Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians live in large numbers? All live in large numbers. Whose population should be more? Arey, when it is the Aadi Sanatan Dharma (the Ancient Deity Religion) then whose population should be more? The population of the deities should be more. But why is it less? Why has the population of other religions increased? Everyone knows the reason. Do you know it or not? Arey, it is only those belonging to the Deity Religion who converted to other religions. It is only the Hindus who converted to other relgions. People belonging to the other religions never leave their religion. They remain steadfast in their religion. This is why the population of other relgions has increased at lot. And that of the Deity Religion has decreased. ... (to be continued.)
Extracts-Part-5
Time: 46.30-47.14
Question: Baba, the Suryavanshis (those belonging to the Sun dynasty) will face the final test in the end. So, won’t the Chandravanshis (those belonging to the Moon dynasty) face it? They should also face the test.
Baba: Will the people of all the religions face the tests simultaneously or numberwise (at different times)? (Someone said: Numberwise.) Who should face it first? The Suryavanshis should face the test first. They will face first; then the Chandravanshis will face it, then the Islamvanshis (those belonging to the Islam dynasty) will face it. They will definitely face the tests.
Time: 47.36-50.52
Baba: Someone has asked: Baba, I and my husband, both know this knowledge; understand it. And we also followed it well. Moreover, it was he who first brought me to this path of knowledge. I did not used to accept initially. But Baba, now he raises a lot of objections on maintaining purity. We will do it, it will happen gradually. I want him to undergo the bhatti once again and make him leave the path of impurity.
Baba: The mother who is asking this question forgets, what is the title Baba has given to men? Duryodhan-Dushasan . Duryodhans and Dushasans wage a wicked war (dusht yuddh). They do not agree. If they find solitude (ekaant) they will definitely start the war of wickedness. If the weak women (ablaa) do not agree, they will make them impure forcibly by even tying her hands and legs. This will be called a wicked war. Besides, human beings possess intellect. If they want to fight with Maya, if they want to test each other, then is there any need to resort to beatings or should they work with the support of each other? They should work with the consent of each other. If anyone falls, they should try to uplift him. To indulge in beatings, to use force, not giving money to eat food, to evict someone from the house is the war by Duryodhan and Dushasan. It is a wicked rule (dusht shaasan). And men definitely do this. Some do to a lesser extent and some do to a greater extent. Some do it today; some will do it tomorrow. Today it is a satopradhaan stage; they have entered the path of knowledge newly, they have a lot of zeal and enthusiasm. Tomorrow? Tomorrow they will become tamopradhaan. And then Baba has said that all men are Duryodhans and Dushasans. He hasn't spared even Brahma and Shankar. Who is included and who is excluded from 'everyone'? Is anyone excluded? Everyone means 500 crore. All the human beings, all the men among the 500 crore are Duryodhans and Dushasan, some to a lesser extent and some to a greater extent.
Time: 51.44-52.40
Question: Your religious war is with the scholars and pandits. Religious war (dharmayuddh) is not called a fight.
Baba: What is meant by adharmayuddh (irreligious war)? Both are fights. They will fight with words. One will narrate ignorance through the mouth and the other will narrate topics of knowledge. Is that not a war? That is also a war. But what is dharmayuddh and what is adharmayuddh? Just now it was said that do the Duryodhans and Dushasans fight dharmayuddh or adharmayuddh? They fight adharmayudh. Violent war is an irreligious war and non-violent war is a religious war.
Time: 53.08-56.37
Question: Recently a big volcano (jvalamukhi) erupted from the ocean bed near Japan. So, Baba something must have happened in the unlimited as well.
Baba: Will it have happened or not? Will it have happened in a small form in the unlimited or will it have happened in a big form? It will happen in a small form in the unlimited because is a small world being established or a big world being established now? A small world is being established. In the small world that is being established, will a unit of family become ready first or will numerous families become ready in the capital? A unit will become ready. That unit is mentioned to be the unit of eight. It is a family of eight. Those eight are ancestors (puurvaj) of the entire world. Ancestors mean those who are born first of all. Yes, some one is the ancestor of the Sun dynasty. Someone is the ancestor of the Moon dynasty. Someone is the ancestor of the Islam dynasty. Some one is the ancestor of the Buddhist dynasty. So, something must be going on in the mind of the ancestor of the Buddhist religion, which bursts in the form of a volcano and does harm.
Is whatever happens beneficial or harmful? The Second World War took place; even in that it was Japan which suffered the highest losss. Was it beneficial or harmful? (Someone said: It was beneficial.) What was beneficial? After facing a blow, Japan went ahead of everyone in technology. Even now it is like this. These are the seed form souls of the five Pandavas. Dharmaraj Yudhishthir is the seed of the Sun dynasty. There is a seed of the Moon dynasty, there is a seed of the Buddhist religion as well. [It is said for him:] intelligent man Arjun and there is a seed of the Sanyas religion as well; these are Indian religions; and there is a seed of the Sikh religion too; the names of Nakul and Sahdev are famous. These seeds of the five Indian religions are counted as the five Pandavas. So, does Arjun talk of sorrow first of all, does he feel sorrowful or does he become enthusiastic at once? First there is unhappiness; he faces a blow; then he becomes alert.
Time: 56.55-59.08
Question: The population of those who belong to the Deity Religion should be more than those of all other religions. But they have now converted that is why their population is less. This is also a drama. A good intellect is required to understand this.
Baba: The questioner has not mentioned the question at all. What is there to understand in this? The population of those who belong to the Deity Religion should be more than those who belong to all other religions. But in the Indian region the population of those who belong to all other religions is more now. Leave alone the topic of the entire India. See the capital Delhi. Everyone follows just Delhi. If you want to see the atmosphere of entire India, then see the atmosphere of Delhi. Do people of any particular religion live in Delhi in greater numbers or do the Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians live in large numbers? All live in large numbers. Whose population should be more? Arey, when it is the Aadi Sanatan Dharma (the Ancient Deity Religion) then whose population should be more? The population of the deities should be more. But why is it less? Why has the population of other religions increased? Everyone knows the reason. Do you know it or not? Arey, it is only those belonging to the Deity Religion who converted to other religions. It is only the Hindus who converted to other relgions. People belonging to the other religions never leave their religion. They remain steadfast in their religion. This is why the population of other relgions has increased at lot. And that of the Deity Religion has decreased. ... (to be continued.)
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arjun
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
Disc.CD No.1159, dated 4.5.2011, Part-1 at Kakarbhitta, Jorsimal
Extracts-Part-6
Time: 59.21-01.01.23
Question: Delhi is called the capital (raajdhaani), not Maharashtra. Not Mumbai in Maharashtra. Why?
Baba: is not Mumbai the capital of Maharashtra? Mumbai is the capital of Maharashtra. Maharashtra is a state and Mumbai is its capital. And Delhi? Delhi is also a state but is it the capital of one state or is it the capital of all the states? It is the capital of all the states. This is why Baba, Avyakt BapDada has also said: When Delhi reforms, then the entire India reforms. Transformation of Delhi means transformation of the entire world. This is why BapDada has laid the maximum stress on the service of Delhi. And He has also said that Delhi does the establishment and Mumbai is a city of 'har-har, bam-bam'. So, what will it explode? It will explode bombs. Will the bombs of knowledge explode first in Delhi or will physical bombardment take place? Which bombardment takes place first?
Time: 01.01.31-01.09.46
Question: Baba, Laden died in the limited. Now, what does it mean in the unlimited?
Baba: What is his complete name? Osama Bin Laden. 'Bin' means 'binaa' (without), 'laa' means bring, 'de naa' (Give me, will you not?) 'O'; 'shaamat aa gayi'. Do you know what is meant by 'shaamat'? Death has come. Death is in front of you. Death has come; take out whatever you have and keep it in front of me. What do dacoits do? They stand with their pistol. What do they do? Bring in front of me what ever you have. Is he the biggest dacoit or not? Is he or is he not? He is. In the language of knowledge, who is the biggest dacoit? (Student: Ram.) Ram? Is Ram the biggest dacoit now - he is speaking about the present time - or will he be the biggest dacoit in the last? He will be in the last. But who is the biggest dacoit now in the world, in the language of knowledge? Ravan. Maya Ravan. How many heads does Maya-Ravan have? He has ten heads. Which is the biggest head among them? The vice of lust is the biggest head; but who is even his Father? Body consciousness. So, when they draw the pictures of Ravan, in which form do they show body consciousness? They show it in the form of a donkey. Do they adopt the profession of dacoity if they do not have intelligence, or do they adopt dacoity as a profession if they have intelligence? They adopt such profession if they do not have intelligence.
So, who plays the part of Ravan's Father who is sitting in the form of a donkey? (Student: Brahma Baba.) Does he understand knowledge or not? Arey! When someone teaches knowledge to someone and if he does not understand it, then what is he called? Donkey. So, who plays the part of the donkey depicted on the head of Ravan? The one who is explained scores of times that God of the Gita is not Krishna, yet whom does he consider [God]? Krishna is God of the Gita. This alone is sitting in this intellect firmly for 63 births. This topic does not come out from his intellect at all. And when Krishna alias Dada Lekhraj is God of the Gita in the corporeal form, then will he purify the sinful ones or not? He will. Shivoham (I am Shiva). Brahmasmi (I am Brahma). Who is this?Arey, who is the biggest human guru in the world? Brahma. The knowledge has not sat in his intellect so he is sitting as God of the Gita in a corporeal form. So, will he pursue a good occupation or will he resort to dacoity? What will he do? He is committing dacoity. He had been committing dacoity till recently. Which dacoity? Arey, whatever you have. What? Roti (food), beti (daughter); bring all that in front of me. Otherwise you will be dead. Even now his part was mentioned. Who is playing the part of Hanuman? He sets on fire all the nice clothes of Ravan’s Lanka. So, he died. What is meant by death? For example, an Avyakt Vani was narrated a few days ago that Maya is fed up now. Maya has accepted defeat; nature is tired. Similarly, now the part of that soul was mentioned. It has become cold[1]. Now a new topic has emerged for which he did not receive a reply.
Which was the last Avyakt Vani of this season in which it was announced that this is the last visit of this season? Do you remember the date? Don't you remember [the date]? Arey! You don't listen to the Avyakt Vani at all; you don't read it at all? Avyakt BapDada narrated a Vani on 31st March and said in it: 'This is the last day of the season.' Then those from Mumbai started printing a bigposter. Mumbai is destructive. Eight points were given in that poster. Among them the first point itself was ... the heading was: Brahmakumaris tell [us]; otherwise, we will tell [you]. An asterisk was drawn on 'we' [with a foot note] 'Advance Party'. The first point itself was: Brahmakumaris say that God is not omnipresent; So, they should tell [us] where He is present in one personality? If He is not [omnipresent], then they should tell [us] where He is present in one. If they cannot tell [us], then we will tell [them].
Student: A dispute will arise soon, will it not?
Baba: So, they were frightened.
Student: No. They were not frightened.
Baba: Yes. They were frightened. They called BapDada immediately on thirteenth. Arey, listen first; they remember BapDada only when they are frightened. Who is their God? Avyakt BapDada; Brahma. They called him immediately on the 13th and He came as well. What will he say? He themself is afraid on seeing, on listening to it. So, an attack took place. A sudden attack took place. Is this a small attack or a big attack? (Someone said: A big attack.) It is a big attack? These big atom bombs are exploding now? Arey, this is a very small one now. He was killed in a small encounter. The entire ego was lost - 'I am the corporeal God of the Gita.'
Student: Are these eight points in the Avyakt Vani?
Baba: They are not in the Avyakt Vani.
Another student: The people from Mumbai have made it.
Baba: Yes. (Concluded.)
Extracts-Part-6
Time: 59.21-01.01.23
Question: Delhi is called the capital (raajdhaani), not Maharashtra. Not Mumbai in Maharashtra. Why?
Baba: is not Mumbai the capital of Maharashtra? Mumbai is the capital of Maharashtra. Maharashtra is a state and Mumbai is its capital. And Delhi? Delhi is also a state but is it the capital of one state or is it the capital of all the states? It is the capital of all the states. This is why Baba, Avyakt BapDada has also said: When Delhi reforms, then the entire India reforms. Transformation of Delhi means transformation of the entire world. This is why BapDada has laid the maximum stress on the service of Delhi. And He has also said that Delhi does the establishment and Mumbai is a city of 'har-har, bam-bam'. So, what will it explode? It will explode bombs. Will the bombs of knowledge explode first in Delhi or will physical bombardment take place? Which bombardment takes place first?
Time: 01.01.31-01.09.46
Question: Baba, Laden died in the limited. Now, what does it mean in the unlimited?
Baba: What is his complete name? Osama Bin Laden. 'Bin' means 'binaa' (without), 'laa' means bring, 'de naa' (Give me, will you not?) 'O'; 'shaamat aa gayi'. Do you know what is meant by 'shaamat'? Death has come. Death is in front of you. Death has come; take out whatever you have and keep it in front of me. What do dacoits do? They stand with their pistol. What do they do? Bring in front of me what ever you have. Is he the biggest dacoit or not? Is he or is he not? He is. In the language of knowledge, who is the biggest dacoit? (Student: Ram.) Ram? Is Ram the biggest dacoit now - he is speaking about the present time - or will he be the biggest dacoit in the last? He will be in the last. But who is the biggest dacoit now in the world, in the language of knowledge? Ravan. Maya Ravan. How many heads does Maya-Ravan have? He has ten heads. Which is the biggest head among them? The vice of lust is the biggest head; but who is even his Father? Body consciousness. So, when they draw the pictures of Ravan, in which form do they show body consciousness? They show it in the form of a donkey. Do they adopt the profession of dacoity if they do not have intelligence, or do they adopt dacoity as a profession if they have intelligence? They adopt such profession if they do not have intelligence.
So, who plays the part of Ravan's Father who is sitting in the form of a donkey? (Student: Brahma Baba.) Does he understand knowledge or not? Arey! When someone teaches knowledge to someone and if he does not understand it, then what is he called? Donkey. So, who plays the part of the donkey depicted on the head of Ravan? The one who is explained scores of times that God of the Gita is not Krishna, yet whom does he consider [God]? Krishna is God of the Gita. This alone is sitting in this intellect firmly for 63 births. This topic does not come out from his intellect at all. And when Krishna alias Dada Lekhraj is God of the Gita in the corporeal form, then will he purify the sinful ones or not? He will. Shivoham (I am Shiva). Brahmasmi (I am Brahma). Who is this?Arey, who is the biggest human guru in the world? Brahma. The knowledge has not sat in his intellect so he is sitting as God of the Gita in a corporeal form. So, will he pursue a good occupation or will he resort to dacoity? What will he do? He is committing dacoity. He had been committing dacoity till recently. Which dacoity? Arey, whatever you have. What? Roti (food), beti (daughter); bring all that in front of me. Otherwise you will be dead. Even now his part was mentioned. Who is playing the part of Hanuman? He sets on fire all the nice clothes of Ravan’s Lanka. So, he died. What is meant by death? For example, an Avyakt Vani was narrated a few days ago that Maya is fed up now. Maya has accepted defeat; nature is tired. Similarly, now the part of that soul was mentioned. It has become cold[1]. Now a new topic has emerged for which he did not receive a reply.
Which was the last Avyakt Vani of this season in which it was announced that this is the last visit of this season? Do you remember the date? Don't you remember [the date]? Arey! You don't listen to the Avyakt Vani at all; you don't read it at all? Avyakt BapDada narrated a Vani on 31st March and said in it: 'This is the last day of the season.' Then those from Mumbai started printing a bigposter. Mumbai is destructive. Eight points were given in that poster. Among them the first point itself was ... the heading was: Brahmakumaris tell [us]; otherwise, we will tell [you]. An asterisk was drawn on 'we' [with a foot note] 'Advance Party'. The first point itself was: Brahmakumaris say that God is not omnipresent; So, they should tell [us] where He is present in one personality? If He is not [omnipresent], then they should tell [us] where He is present in one. If they cannot tell [us], then we will tell [them].
Student: A dispute will arise soon, will it not?
Baba: So, they were frightened.
Student: No. They were not frightened.
Baba: Yes. They were frightened. They called BapDada immediately on thirteenth. Arey, listen first; they remember BapDada only when they are frightened. Who is their God? Avyakt BapDada; Brahma. They called him immediately on the 13th and He came as well. What will he say? He themself is afraid on seeing, on listening to it. So, an attack took place. A sudden attack took place. Is this a small attack or a big attack? (Someone said: A big attack.) It is a big attack? These big atom bombs are exploding now? Arey, this is a very small one now. He was killed in a small encounter. The entire ego was lost - 'I am the corporeal God of the Gita.'
Student: Are these eight points in the Avyakt Vani?
Baba: They are not in the Avyakt Vani.
Another student: The people from Mumbai have made it.
Baba: Yes. (Concluded.)
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arjun
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions
Disc.CD No.1243, dated 28.10.11 at Tirupati
Extracts-Part-1
Time: 04.15-11.29
Student: Why did Maharana Pratap have to eat grass?
Baba: Why did he have to eat grass-rotis? Well, who eats grass? Who eats grass? Do human beings eat grass or do animals eat grass?
Student: Animals.
Baba: And even among the animals, do ferocious animals like lion eat grass or do ordinary animals eat grass? And is Maharana Pratap counted among the brave people of Bharat or among ordinary people? The residents of no other country have been depicted to have as much bravery as the Indians. Mahavir is shown to play the part of God who goes 'last so first and first so fast' among the Jains. That Mahavir is worshipped even to this date in Mount Abu as Vir Baba. He is praised to be so brave and it has been shown in the history that he used to eat rotis made of grass. Its reason is that Baba has said in the Murli that there is nothing in the world that is not applicable to you. He did wage a violent war, but did he wage it for self-respect or for selfish purpose? He waged it for self-respect. In order to save his self-respect he had to wage a violent war as well. But he did not indulge in violence like animals, like lions; he did not beg from anyone for his livelihood.
For example, the poor people of today's world survive by eating grass etc. Does grass have any less power? Does the duub grass give more strength or less strength? It gives a lot of strength. It is that grass which forms cow's milk, but people consider grass to be of little worth. Grass can be found everywhere. It does not cost anything. You can go anywhere in a jungle and cut grass. When compared to ordinary eatables, grass gives more strength. But the rich people consider grass to be ordinary. Songs have also been penned in the path of Bhakti: ghaas khaaye gauen, duudh piye gvaal aur maakhan mishri madan gopal (Cows eat grass, cowherds drink milk and Madan Gopal [a name of Krishna] eats butter and mishri [sugar candy ]). So, did they make the cows ordinary or did they mention the cows to be great? What did the devotees think? They made the cows ordinary. When ShivBaba comes, He gives importance only to the cows. He says 'Mother India the incarnation of Shivshakti - this is the slogan of the end'. Those cows who lead an ordinary life make India heaven. This is about leading a life of self-respect. It shouldn't be considered to be lowly. If you get butter and bread being subordinates, then it is a lowly thing and even if you have to eat grass rotis being independent, it is better.
Time: 12.07-15.45
Student: Is it correct to hang those who indulge in corruption or…?
Baba: Why is it correct to hang someone?
Student: When they are doing something wrong.
Baba: When someone is hanged, then does it do harm to the body, does the body die or does the soul die?
Student: The body.
Baba: The body dies. It is not that by hanging someone his soul becomes satopradhaan. Those who hang [others], those who commit suicide, murder someone or those who are murdered all of them go into the category of ghosts and spirits. That does just harm. It leads to wastage of time, money and energy. This is not the Divine (iishvariya) penal code; it is the penal code of the demonic world that if anyone commits a big sin, then hang him.
Student: Those who are not hanged are sentenced to life imprisonment…
Baba: The penal code of today's world is totally opposite to the penal code of God. There is life imprisonment there on the basis of the body; here everything in the Divine knowledge is on the basis of the soul. If any soul does not act in accordance with the Divine law, if it acts against the Divine law in the entire Brahmin life, then does it have birth in Ravan's jail birth after birth or does it have birth in heaven? What happens? It has been written in the Gita as well: Muudha janmani-janmani. Such ignorant souls who are unable to recognize My Shrimat, do not follow Shrimat, such ignorant souls are born in the species of hell birth after birth. This itself is their life imprisonment. In the path of Bhakti they grasp every topic on the basis of the body and in the path of knowledge every topic is grasped on the basis of the soul conscious stage.
Time: 15.50-18.53
Student: Baba, what is meant by Shiv tatva, Ishvar tatva or Parmatma tatva?
Baba: Iish means to govern; var means elevated. Ishvar means the one who governs in the most elevated manner. For example, it was mentioned just now that those who govern in the world of human beings, in the penal code that they adopt, they indulge in physical violence. The Divine governance is not like that, it does not teach using physical violence; it teaches the realization of the soul. There is no ruler better than God in the world. Because of being the best ruler He has been named Ish var. [The word] Ishvar is formed by combining both words. A soul like element, living element which is the most elevated ruler. He does not hang anyone; He does not beat anyone with a stick either; He teaches lovingly. It has been more than 70 years since God is teaching. Can anyone say that He saw someone with displeasure (tedhi aankh)? Yet the capital of the new world is established. There wasn’t such a righteous ruler in the world so far nor will there be any such person in the world. This is why He is called Iishvar. That Shiva, the soul who rules in an elevated manner enters in the Supreme Soul, the soul who plays the supreme part among the souls; this is why He is the parmatma tatva as well, but He is a living soul. It is then that He is called satt, citt, anand.
Time: 19.04-28.22
Question: Someone has asked that mango is the king of fruits and banana is the queen of fruits. The queen of fruits grows and is available throughout the year, , but mango is not available in every season. What does it mean in the unlimited?
Baba: Who is the king of fruits in the unlimited? In Sanskrit it is called aamra - aayaa aur maraa (it came and died). Baba says that there are three kinds of moths. One kind is those who come and die immediately; they sacrifice themselves on the flame; immediate donation (turant daan) - what has been said? – is highly beneficial (mahaan kalyaan); they are the first class moths, the ones who achieve the highest position. It is about the living purushaarthis (those who make spiritual effort). The second kind is those who do come, they also revolve [around the flame], but while revolving, just by coming when their moustache burns, their leg burns, their hand burns, they run away. They come again and run away. They come again and run away. In this manner they just keep revolving. They cannot live without coming and they cannot live without running away either. They are bound to come and they are bound to run away as well. They are the number two moths. And the third kind is those, the third class ones who come once and if any part of their body burns, then they run away in such a way that they do not return at all. Even if the entire world is destroyed they do not come. So, the best fruit among them was mentioned to be aamra, the one who came and died. Who is that No.1 mango fruit? There are many varieties of mango. But is the indigenous mango good for health or is the foreign mango good?
Student: Indigenous mango.
Baba: The indigenous mango is good. That indigenous mango is the actor playing the part of Bharat. Indigenous mango is produced only once in a season. Nonetheless, now such varieties of mango have emerged that produce fruits twice or thrice a season. He is such a purushaarthi soul that despite making purushaarth and completing the cycle of 84 births becomes the master of the world only once in the cycle of 5000 years. And the queen of fruits is banana. So, which banana is it? There is a varety among bananas as well. Is the small-sized banana good or is the large-sized banana good? The small-sized banana is good. The small-sized banana is the junior mother and the large-sized banana is the senior mother. In which area is banana cultivated the most? In which area is the small-sized banana produced the most? Arey?
Student: South India.
Baba: Which state even in the south India? Arey, the small sized banana, which is called ‘jiiraa kelaa’? Andhra Pradesh. What is the name? Andhra. Have you heard the story of the blind and the lame? What? The Vijaymala is blind (andhi) and Rudramala is lame (langdi). So, what was it named? Andhra. Which state is very close to the ocean? The longest coastline is in Andhra Pradesh, it is spread close to the ocean. Is it close with the heart or with the brain? It is close with the heart. Who is the head of the Vijaymala? The junior mother. Does she follow purity in every birth or does she play the highest part by becoming pure in just the Confluence Age? She plays the part of purity in every season. Where [there] is purity there is peace and prosperity. It is not that it fruits in one season or in one or two months. She is always fruitful. ... (to be continued.)
Extracts-Part-1
Time: 04.15-11.29
Student: Why did Maharana Pratap have to eat grass?
Baba: Why did he have to eat grass-rotis? Well, who eats grass? Who eats grass? Do human beings eat grass or do animals eat grass?
Student: Animals.
Baba: And even among the animals, do ferocious animals like lion eat grass or do ordinary animals eat grass? And is Maharana Pratap counted among the brave people of Bharat or among ordinary people? The residents of no other country have been depicted to have as much bravery as the Indians. Mahavir is shown to play the part of God who goes 'last so first and first so fast' among the Jains. That Mahavir is worshipped even to this date in Mount Abu as Vir Baba. He is praised to be so brave and it has been shown in the history that he used to eat rotis made of grass. Its reason is that Baba has said in the Murli that there is nothing in the world that is not applicable to you. He did wage a violent war, but did he wage it for self-respect or for selfish purpose? He waged it for self-respect. In order to save his self-respect he had to wage a violent war as well. But he did not indulge in violence like animals, like lions; he did not beg from anyone for his livelihood.
For example, the poor people of today's world survive by eating grass etc. Does grass have any less power? Does the duub grass give more strength or less strength? It gives a lot of strength. It is that grass which forms cow's milk, but people consider grass to be of little worth. Grass can be found everywhere. It does not cost anything. You can go anywhere in a jungle and cut grass. When compared to ordinary eatables, grass gives more strength. But the rich people consider grass to be ordinary. Songs have also been penned in the path of Bhakti: ghaas khaaye gauen, duudh piye gvaal aur maakhan mishri madan gopal (Cows eat grass, cowherds drink milk and Madan Gopal [a name of Krishna] eats butter and mishri [sugar candy ]). So, did they make the cows ordinary or did they mention the cows to be great? What did the devotees think? They made the cows ordinary. When ShivBaba comes, He gives importance only to the cows. He says 'Mother India the incarnation of Shivshakti - this is the slogan of the end'. Those cows who lead an ordinary life make India heaven. This is about leading a life of self-respect. It shouldn't be considered to be lowly. If you get butter and bread being subordinates, then it is a lowly thing and even if you have to eat grass rotis being independent, it is better.
Time: 12.07-15.45
Student: Is it correct to hang those who indulge in corruption or…?
Baba: Why is it correct to hang someone?
Student: When they are doing something wrong.
Baba: When someone is hanged, then does it do harm to the body, does the body die or does the soul die?
Student: The body.
Baba: The body dies. It is not that by hanging someone his soul becomes satopradhaan. Those who hang [others], those who commit suicide, murder someone or those who are murdered all of them go into the category of ghosts and spirits. That does just harm. It leads to wastage of time, money and energy. This is not the Divine (iishvariya) penal code; it is the penal code of the demonic world that if anyone commits a big sin, then hang him.
Student: Those who are not hanged are sentenced to life imprisonment…
Baba: The penal code of today's world is totally opposite to the penal code of God. There is life imprisonment there on the basis of the body; here everything in the Divine knowledge is on the basis of the soul. If any soul does not act in accordance with the Divine law, if it acts against the Divine law in the entire Brahmin life, then does it have birth in Ravan's jail birth after birth or does it have birth in heaven? What happens? It has been written in the Gita as well: Muudha janmani-janmani. Such ignorant souls who are unable to recognize My Shrimat, do not follow Shrimat, such ignorant souls are born in the species of hell birth after birth. This itself is their life imprisonment. In the path of Bhakti they grasp every topic on the basis of the body and in the path of knowledge every topic is grasped on the basis of the soul conscious stage.
Time: 15.50-18.53
Student: Baba, what is meant by Shiv tatva, Ishvar tatva or Parmatma tatva?
Baba: Iish means to govern; var means elevated. Ishvar means the one who governs in the most elevated manner. For example, it was mentioned just now that those who govern in the world of human beings, in the penal code that they adopt, they indulge in physical violence. The Divine governance is not like that, it does not teach using physical violence; it teaches the realization of the soul. There is no ruler better than God in the world. Because of being the best ruler He has been named Ish var. [The word] Ishvar is formed by combining both words. A soul like element, living element which is the most elevated ruler. He does not hang anyone; He does not beat anyone with a stick either; He teaches lovingly. It has been more than 70 years since God is teaching. Can anyone say that He saw someone with displeasure (tedhi aankh)? Yet the capital of the new world is established. There wasn’t such a righteous ruler in the world so far nor will there be any such person in the world. This is why He is called Iishvar. That Shiva, the soul who rules in an elevated manner enters in the Supreme Soul, the soul who plays the supreme part among the souls; this is why He is the parmatma tatva as well, but He is a living soul. It is then that He is called satt, citt, anand.
Time: 19.04-28.22
Question: Someone has asked that mango is the king of fruits and banana is the queen of fruits. The queen of fruits grows and is available throughout the year, , but mango is not available in every season. What does it mean in the unlimited?
Baba: Who is the king of fruits in the unlimited? In Sanskrit it is called aamra - aayaa aur maraa (it came and died). Baba says that there are three kinds of moths. One kind is those who come and die immediately; they sacrifice themselves on the flame; immediate donation (turant daan) - what has been said? – is highly beneficial (mahaan kalyaan); they are the first class moths, the ones who achieve the highest position. It is about the living purushaarthis (those who make spiritual effort). The second kind is those who do come, they also revolve [around the flame], but while revolving, just by coming when their moustache burns, their leg burns, their hand burns, they run away. They come again and run away. They come again and run away. In this manner they just keep revolving. They cannot live without coming and they cannot live without running away either. They are bound to come and they are bound to run away as well. They are the number two moths. And the third kind is those, the third class ones who come once and if any part of their body burns, then they run away in such a way that they do not return at all. Even if the entire world is destroyed they do not come. So, the best fruit among them was mentioned to be aamra, the one who came and died. Who is that No.1 mango fruit? There are many varieties of mango. But is the indigenous mango good for health or is the foreign mango good?
Student: Indigenous mango.
Baba: The indigenous mango is good. That indigenous mango is the actor playing the part of Bharat. Indigenous mango is produced only once in a season. Nonetheless, now such varieties of mango have emerged that produce fruits twice or thrice a season. He is such a purushaarthi soul that despite making purushaarth and completing the cycle of 84 births becomes the master of the world only once in the cycle of 5000 years. And the queen of fruits is banana. So, which banana is it? There is a varety among bananas as well. Is the small-sized banana good or is the large-sized banana good? The small-sized banana is good. The small-sized banana is the junior mother and the large-sized banana is the senior mother. In which area is banana cultivated the most? In which area is the small-sized banana produced the most? Arey?
Student: South India.
Baba: Which state even in the south India? Arey, the small sized banana, which is called ‘jiiraa kelaa’? Andhra Pradesh. What is the name? Andhra. Have you heard the story of the blind and the lame? What? The Vijaymala is blind (andhi) and Rudramala is lame (langdi). So, what was it named? Andhra. Which state is very close to the ocean? The longest coastline is in Andhra Pradesh, it is spread close to the ocean. Is it close with the heart or with the brain? It is close with the heart. Who is the head of the Vijaymala? The junior mother. Does she follow purity in every birth or does she play the highest part by becoming pure in just the Confluence Age? She plays the part of purity in every season. Where [there] is purity there is peace and prosperity. It is not that it fruits in one season or in one or two months. She is always fruitful. ... (to be continued.)
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