Flaws in PBK Philosophy

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 470) PBKs inadvertently imply soul as mortal and omnipresent:-
# Flaw No. 471) PBKs inadvertently imply God is the cause for even sorrow:-

Certainly, the power of the soul is distributed in the whole body.

1) If PBKs believe soul power is distributed evenly throughout the body, then there cannot be any difference between different organs.
[In case of flour and salt, it is fully evenly distributed. Every piece is identical].
By claiming - Soul power is evenly distributed throughout the body, PBKs are making soul as omnipresent throughout every atom in the body, and most probably or inadvertently imply- God is also omnipresent.

2) Now- what do they say about God? - Is God Power ALSO evenly distributed in the body, in which he enters? OR, Is God Power distributed evenly throughout the world?

3) Now, PBKs believe Supreme Soul Shiv would be staying in Chariot most of the time. They also believe God will be PHYSICALLY sitting very close to the soul of the Chariot.
So- in the above PBK view- even God power should/would be distributed evenly throughout the Chariot, is it not?

In that case, both the Chariot/body and the soul/owner of the Chariot should become instantly pure, is it not?

Along with this comparison another one is used. A banana is taken and one is asked to show where is the banana seed in it. We are unable to show the seed although everything has come from that seed, but it got dissolved in the whole tree and the fruit. But still we have a banana tree and a banana fruit and not a mango tree and fruit, because the seed is manifested in The Tree and the fruit. And the seed is small in comparison to The Tree.

4) As far my knowledge is concerned, in case of banana fruit, the seeds are more in number. Not one.
Also- in banana, the tree/plant does not come through the seed. It comes through its lump. The seeds are dummy there.

5) Most of the time, Baba says- "I am BEEJ-ROOP (like seed or Seed FORM)", not "I am BEEJ (SEED)". Means Baba is implying - He is not like physical seed which gets destroyed when it becomes tree.

6) And- even Baba has not created Tree by Himself. Both tree and seed are eternal here.
But, most beloved almighty ShivBaba gives energy to the Tree, hence he is Creator. ShivBaba neither creates anything physically, nor becomes dissolved in the creation like a salt in the water.

7) Baba even DOES NOT get manifested in physical way, like the physical seed in a tree.
Beloved ShivBaba clearly says- "Main chakr may naheen aataa hun. Main reserve rahtaa hun = I do not come in time Cycle. I am kept as reserved".

8) Even though Baba says- drama (say tree) is made as a game of happiness and sorrow, Baba says- "I do not give sorrow. I give only happiness". [Baba also says- "Actually, do not even give you happiness, I just show you the way to happiness and fulfill your good wishes (as per your eligibility and drama)"].

But, if the above PBK argument is taken as true, then PBKs are inadvertently implying- "Cause for both happiness as well as sorrow are God". [Since God is seed and srushti (time cycle) is the Tree].

9) If PBKs wish to take anything FULLY (and FOOL-LY), in literal sense, that too negatively, it is up to them. Let them have it.

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 472) PBK concept of the so-called "ATTAINING SEED STAGE is just a bogus:-

From - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=248&p=324&hilit=Lekhraj#p324

So you say Brahma Baba spends all his time in the body of Shankar, unless he moves over to Madhuban to give Avyakt Vani? Then the thought is, why is the same effect not seen on Shankar as is seen on Dadi Gulzar ... as anyone who has witnessed will know there is quite a change that goes on when Brahma enters Dadi Gulzar.

I did not mean to say that while not moving to Gulzar Dadi's body, the soul of Brahma Baba stays permanently in the body of Shankar. It can also enter into any Brahmin child to do service of giving spiritual force/inspiration.

The soul of Brahma enters into the body of Gulzar Dadi with a subtle body. So the physical effect of the subtle body on the physical body can be seen in the form of physical changes.

But when the soul of Brahma Baba enters into Shankar, it attains a seed-like stage in the company of the Supreme Soul Shiv and the soul of Ram. And thus the physical effect of the subtle body is not visible.

1) PBKs believe when the soul of B Baba enters Mr. Dixit, it attains seed stage. In that case, where does the question of Bull riding (controlling and misusing) Shankar arise? [that too- to the extent of slapping some sister in Amrit Vela!]

2) Or do PBKs believe soul of B baba attains seed stage only when Supreme Soul Shiva would also be present in body of Mr. Dixit? and not in other cases?

---If yes, then the so-called attaining seed stage is just due to company of Supreme Soul Shiva and not the PBK Ram soul. So- during such cases, when soul of Brahma baba enters body of Mr. Dixit (whenever Supreme Soul Shiva is not present in his body), then the facial expression and physical changes SHOULD APPEAR in the body of Mr. Dixit too- right?
Else, it then implies no soul enters in body of Mr. Dixit!

3) But- PBKs believe- some words in Sakar Murlis are or could be erroneous which they relate to words of B baba (not of SS Shiv). But, in PBK view- physical company of Supreme Soul Shiva would make one attaining seed stage, so how come B baba can speak in between or speak erroneously?

4) Does the soul of Ram too attain seed stage while in the company of SS Shiv? In that case, how come Mr. Dixit sometimes dozes while giving drushti?

5) PBKs believe soul of B baba enters their KD too. Obviously, physical changes should be clearly observable there at least too. PBKs believe soul of B baba has created eclipse on KD. Then obviously, during that time, Supreme Soul Shiva cannot be in her body. So, during that time, physical changes should appear in her too- is it not?

6) So- all these just prove that neither any human soul, nor Supreme Soul Shiva enter in any of the PBK personalities, and what Mr Dixit claims is just a bogus.

7) By inviting soul of B baba in body of Mr. Dixit and KD, PBKs have committed just spiritual suicide.

[sita]

1) If PBKs believe soul power is distributed evenly throughout the body, then there cannot be any difference between different organs. 
[In case of flour and salt, it is fully evenly distributed. Every piece is identical].

Certainly the power of the soul goes in the whole body, that is why the subtle body has the same form as the physical body. There are even cases when someone is having his leg cut still he has a feeling as if it is still there.Just as the kings stays on its throne, but his authority spreads over the whole country, in this way the soul with its vibration is controlling the body.

But the point is not whether the salt is evenly or non-evenly distrubuted. Because we can have unevenly distributed salt in the flour too. (I can't believe we are even discussing that) The point is that we can come in contact with the incorporeal just in an indirect way, via some medium. Like we know about the supreme Father only indirectly, only through the knowledge he gives, not based on something obvious. We have to taste it and then we can say it is there, it is salt. Or we should have the knowledge about the seed, only then we will know that the tree has come from the seed. (although the ancient men obviously did not know that bananas comes from a twig)

Work of spiritual warrior is to fight with Maya, not with human being. 

Maya is ignorance. Maya comes in our remembrance in the form of remembrance of some people. Maya is vice and vice is there in people. OK we are not lustful, but we don't end lust in others, then what will happen. They will influence us. Baba has said that if someone is angy we should run away? Why. This is the tactic of the war. We retreat so that we are not infuenced and indirectly we fight with its anger, making so that it does not spread. If we don't fight we will lose. Baba has said that war is inevitable. The darkness of ignorance will be chased away through the light of knowledge so we should make everything possible to spread knowledge and if someone spreads ignorance to confront that, it becomes an obstacle and delay in the task. And clashes of sanskars will be there till the end. If we don't spread knowledge if we don't make thorns into flowers, we are of no use. If we don't do service we are definitely doing disservice.

---If yes, then the so-called attaining seed stage is just due to company of Supreme Soul Shiva and not the PBK Ram soul. So- during such cases, when soul of Brahma Baba enters body of Mr. Dixit (whenever Supreme Soul Shiva is not present in his body), then the facial expression and physical changes SHOULD APPEAR in the body of Mr. Dixit too- right? 

So when it is said that Mama and Baba enter children and do service, so when they enter are the consciousness of the one they enter suppressed, like when entrance takes place in Gulzar Dadi. No. In Gulzar Dadi she steps back and surrenders her body. Even when ghost enter the consciousness is not supressed.

PBKs inadvertently imply soul as mortal 

In your argumentation you have not proved where I have implied that the soul is mortal. Please, prove that.

# Flaw No. 471) PBKs inadvertently imply God is the cause for even sorrow:-

I think you speculate too much. I lost the track of how from saying that the power of the soul is distributed in the body, how it became that I say that God gives sorrow. Let me try. If the soul's power is distributed in the body, so will be the power of the Supreme Soul....but can we make this assumption. Is the Supreme Soul same as the human soul? Baba has said that God is only god, only a soul, he can never become human, nor can any human ever become God. He never has body, nor bodyconsiousness, nor a subtle body. How can you claim that his power is distributed in the body?

I have also observed you use the techniques of the hybrid war. One of its techniques is to repeat one and the same thing. It may not be true, it will become through repeating. Take for example drowsning during drishti or Baba slapping sister at Amrit Vela. You consider these two as very bad and a good way to shame us, so you repeat them again and again. The fact that these issues are not addressed is even more indicative. We are ashamed of that and cannot address the issue. A new reader will not know that we have discussed this many times in the past and what was the outcome of the discussion. But OK. You say Baba drowses giving drishti. Prove that and we can discuss it. I haven't seen that. Give a video. About the slapping incident, we don't know if it is true. It is based only on what shivsena has said. It has not been confirmed. Then you take what arjun Bhai has said, whilst Baba has said that even if an evil spirit enters we are responsible to make these evil spirits good. It means we are fully accountable for whatever happens through our body. You cannot go to court saying that a soul entered and I murdered someone and get away with that. Next you misinterpret the saying that the bull rides on Shakar to mean control. We have discussed that. Baba uses the word riding a bull to mean entering. Brahma Baba enters Shankar, this is the meaning of the crescent on his forehead. When it is said that Shankar rides on the bull, it meas that he controls his mind. Here we can say that riding is equal to controlling because it is the one who can control that can control. The intellect can control the mind. The mind cannot control the intellect, it is just that it is the mind that is out of control. It is like a Father and a child. The child can sit on the head of the Father grab it by the ears and make it move here and there, but it is only because the Father wants to obey that it happens, not because the child controls its Father. And now don't speculate on that. I'm using it for the sake of explaining. The controlling power in the soul is in the intellect, not in the mind.

# Flaw No. 469) Why add only 40 years? Why not 50 years or 25/30 years?-

This is a good point and I will ask about it. I have not heard explanation about 25/30 years, but it finishes in 2000 (that was considered special in the AK when the Gyan Ganga Sagar mela happened in Calcutta )and also 2005 that is the end of the Kaliyugi Shooting. (You can see the explanation about 40, 50, 60 and 100 years in the lesson for the cycle)

But since you are not happy with these explanations I'm interested to know how do you explain 25-30, 40, 50, 60, 100 years.

[mbbhat]

Certainly the power of the soul goes in the whole body, that is why the subtle body has the same form as the physical body.

Very good point, excellent. But, I think subtle body is not the it is not really a soul power. Subtle body is not just a power, it is a limitation too.
Baba says- "BVS also have subtle bodies, I do not have even that. That is why I am the highest".

There are even cases when someone is having his leg cut still he has a feeling as if it is still there.

It means he is under body consciousness. Not the soul power. He had already had the previous sanskaar of the perfect/full body. So- that sanskaar is being replayed. Now- if that sanskaar is to be taken as soul-power, your argument is valid to that extent only*.

But the point is not whether the salt is evenly or non-evenly distributed. Because we can have unevenly distributed salt in the flour too.

There can be case of some salt could be totally absent in some part of the flour! But, you had said- at every piece of the flour we can get same taste! - which you yourself are contradicting.

So when it is said that Mama and Baba enter children and do service, so when they enter are the consciousness of the one they enter suppressed, like when entrance takes place in Gulzar Dadi. No. In Gulzar Dadi she steps back and surrenders her body. Even when ghost enter the consciousness is not supressed.

Then why do PBKs call B Baba as ghost? So- PBK knowledge does not tally either this side or that side.

But, when ghost enters, at least some physical change occurs. Now- when no change occurs in PBK personalities, and still PBKs believe B baba is a ghost, controlling and misusing Mr Dixit, then at least some change should be seen there, is it not?

In your argumentation you have not proved where I have implied that the soul is mortal. Please, prove that.

I have already said it. Salt gets dissolved. But soul does not. Seed gets destroyed, but God does not.

I think you speculate too much.

I have just replied in your own coin. It is Mr. Dixit and his followers do this juggling exercises. So- why not reply them in their own way?

Is the Supreme Soul same as the human soul? Baba has said that God is only god, only a soul, he can never become human, nor can any human ever become God. He never has body, nor bodyconsiousness, nor a subtle body. How can you claim that his power is distributed in the body?

When PBKs have nothing to prove, they will say like that. If you believe soul power can be distributed, why not Supreme Soul's power?

You say Baba drowses giving drishti. Prove that and we can discuss it. I haven't seen that. Give a video. About the slapping incident, we don't know if it is true. It is based only on what shivsena has said. It has not been confirmed. Then you take what arjun Bhai has said,

I myself have seen Mr Dixit dozing in the PBK Gitapathashala videos. And- very senior PBK arjun soul has accepted it.

Even the slapping incident - arjun soul has accepted Shivsena and (arjun's explanation was - B Baba had some karmic account with the sister and hence slapped her by (mis)using body of Mr. Dixit!
I had asked- B baba would then have karmic account with many sisters in BKWSU too. Why does he not slap someone using body of Dadi Gulzar? He did not reply.

This is a good point and I will ask about it. I have not heard explanation about 25/30 years, but it finishes in 2000 (that was considered special in the AK when the Gyan Ganga Sagar mela happened in Calcutta )and also 2005 that is the end of the Kaliyugi Shooting. (You can see the explanation about 40, 50, 60 and 100 years in the lesson for The Cycle)

Just manipulations. There are more important incidents- then. Premkanta leaving= Changing of first Jagadamba of PBKs, Then the second Jagadamba KD leaving in 1998,

More are when did KD took birth? Sister Vedanti coming to gyaan in 1965. That should have same value as 1976 or even more. ...

More can be given in the list.

But since you are not happy with these explanations I am interested to know how do you explain 25-30, 40, 50, 60, 100 years.

I am not that much attached to figures like PBKs. But, for B Baba and Mama it took almost 25 to 30 yrs to climb. For others, it is 40, 50, may be. Maximum age of Conf. Age is 100 yrs.

Top two souls took just 25 to 32 yrs to climb.

[sita]

I have already said it. Salt gets dissolved. But soul does not. Seed gets destroyed, but God does not.

When the salt gets dissolved does it disappear or cease to exist. Its transformed, it changes its from. It is there. The soul also changes its form when it comes from the supreme abode. If its power did not get distributed in the body, it will not become impure through the body. But the Supreme Soul remains in a seed form stage when he comes that is why he is ever pure.

I have just replied in your own coin. It is Mr. Dixit and his followers do this juggling exercises. So- why not reply them in their own way?

So PBKs are responsible for your wrong doings.

I am not that much attached to figures like PBKs. But, for B Baba and Mama it took almost 25 to 30 yrs to climb. For others, it is 40, 50, may be. Maximum age of Conf. Age is 100 yrs.

Top two souls took just 25 to 32 yrs to climb.

On the documents it is also said that the Yagya will last 12 years. What does it mean?

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 473) PBKs do not even know A,B,C,Ds of SOUL:-

# Flaw No. 474) PBKs inadvertently imply- Both GOD and SEED Stage are totally useless:-

When the salt gets dissolved does it disappear or cease to exist. Its transformed, it changes its form. It is there. The soul also changes its form when it comes from the supreme abode.

1) Form of soul never changes. It remains point itself. Its seat remain fixed in body throughout its stay in the body.
Even while leaving body, it takes the sanskaar with it.

If its power did not get distributed in the body, it will not become impure through the body.

2) Power of soul does not distributed in the body. If that is the case, then power of body should keep on increasing (due to extra flow of power from soul to body) while power of soul keep on decreasing. - :laugh:
[So- as the soul power decreases, power of body and nature should keep on increasing!]

The fact is- when soul power decreases, even the power of body as well as nature keep on decreasing.

3) The actual cause for degradation is - ATTACHMENT. When a soul gets attached to body, it degrades. Soul is the master, and body/nature is the servant. When the master instead of handling the servant, giving sustenance to the servant - if he gets influenced from the servant, mishandles the servant, both the master and the servant degrade.

But the Supreme Soul remains in a seed form stage when he comes that is why he is ever pure.

4) So- in this PBK view- God is like a TOTALLY USELESS personality. Since they believe power of Supreme Soul does not get distributed at all, - in PBK view- even the SEED Stage is totally a useless stage! - :laugh:

5) Flaw No. 139 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51025&hilit ... ity#p51025 is another proof that PBKs do not know the meaning of spirituality in practical.
--------------

On the documents it is also said that the Yagya will last 12 years. What does it mean?

In the ex BK forum, someone has mentioned that the BKs initially had assumed by 1950, it will be end of Kalpa.
5) I do not know whether you are saying about the same document. I have not seen the document. If you have data, you may kindly mention.

[sita]

Baba has said that a soul without a body is like nonliving. The soul in Paramdham in the seed like stage is like nonliving. When it comes in a body it becomes a jivatma and starts degrading. The energy of the soul like battery gets exhausted through enjoying sensual pleasures. The power starts going down from the level of the forehead to the eyes, shoulders etc.

It is not true that the cause of degradation is attachment, because the Golden Age is for those who have conquered attachment, still souls degrade there.

The Supreme Soul does not become jivatma and his power does not go down or exhausted.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3fnywnieosgy ... ).pdf?dl=0

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 475) PBKs inadvertently deny the incarnation of God:-

Baba has said that a soul without a body is like nonliving.

1) We should understand the context in which Baba has said. If you think soul is fully non-living, then how can soul move or come down from Paramdham to the physical world to take body/birth?

What baba has said is- in Paramdham, it does not experience like in the physical world.

2) You might have heard Baba saying- "when we sleep, soul goes into bodiless stage".
Baba also says- "put effort to achieve bodiless stage".
Now- do you think both are one and the same?

It is not true that the cause of degradation is attachment, because the Golden Age is for those who have conquered attachment, still souls degrade there.

3) In fact, the story of "attachment-free KIng" is of Conf. Age, not of Satyug. In other words- it is more applicable to the Conf. Age than Golden Age*.

SM 28-9-82(1):- TUM JAANTE HO HUM AVINAASHI BAAP PAR BALI CHADHEY HAIN, TOH HUMAARAA SAB KUCH AVINAASHI BAN JAATAA HAI. PURAANAA SHARIR CHOD NAYAA LE LETE HAIN. TUM BACHCHON NE MOHJEETH RAJA KI KATHAA TOH SUNI HAI. YAH KAHAANI Satyug KE LIYE NAHIN HAI. KYONKI VAHAAN AKAALEY MRUTYU HOTAA NAHIN. YAH SIRF MISAAL KE LIYE KAHAANI BANAAYI HAI KI US SAMAY HUM NASHTAMOH, MOHJEETH RAHTE HAIN. SHARIR SAHITH PURRAANI DUNIYAA SE MAMATW MITHAANAA HAI. KYONKI TUM NAYI DUNIYAA MAY JAA RAHE HO. PURAANI DUNIYAA KE SAATH KISKAA MAMATW HOTAA HAI KYAA? NAHIN. ISKO BEHAD KA SANYAAS KAHAA JAATAA HAI. SIRF BABA BHI NAHIN KAHTE KI DEH SE MAMATW MITHAAVO. PARANTU JO BHI IN AANKHON SE DEKHTE HO, SABKO BHOOLO. KYONKI AB DIVYDRUSHTHI MILI HAI KI YAH SAB KHATM HONAA HAI. PURAANI DUNIYAA VINAASH HUYI PADI HAI. ShivBaba humko raajy dete hain. ShivBaba KA NAAM SADAA SHIV HAI. KYONKI UNKO APNAA SHARIR TOH HAI NAHIN. -37- VIMP [Yaad, ShivBaba]

= ...The story of Attachment-free Kings is not of Golden Age. Because there is no untimely death.

It is very simple logic. The title Mayajeeth is actually for Conf. Age. In G Age, there is no Maya.

4) Usually Baba says- "You have lost path from half a Kalpa. "
But, sometimes Baba also says- "You have lost path from G Age itself."

5) Now- is there Maya in G Age? The answer is both yes and no.
In one way- there is no Maya, because Maya means vices. In G Age, there are no vices.

But, sometimes baba says- what all you see is Maya. baba says- the nature is also called as paanch- bhooth (five ghosts or demons). Worship of deities is also worshiping of bhooth (ghost or demons)

So- the context should be understood properly.

6) If we see- for any natural degradation, attachment/influence is the cause. For any building or object to get old (naturally= ageing), is due to its attachment with other things.

7) If PBKs believe attachment is not cause for degradation, then why should there be praise for attachment-free Kings(Moh_jeeth Raajas) ? - :laugh:

The Supreme Soul does not become jivatma...

8) There are very clear Murli points saying- "I become gruhasthi(household person).", as well as "I become jivatma".

SM 11-12-76(1):- Jaise tum aatmaayein yahaan aakar part bajaati ho, gruhsathi ban_thee ho, vaise mujhe bhi aakar gruhasthi ban_naa padtaa hai. Sirf Sangamyug par ek hi baar aataa hun aur aakar gruhasthi bantaa hun. Yahaan sammukh tum MUJHE maatpitaa kahte ho. Bhal aage bhi tum mujhe pukaarthay thay- Tum maatpitaa….. Parantu us samay main gruhasthi nahin thaa. Is samay aakar gruhasthi banaa hun. Grushasthi bhi 2-4 bachchon kaa nahin. Dher ke dher bachche hote jaate hain. ..... Abhi toh tum samajhte ho sukh toh humko Satyug may milenge. Vah sukh praapt karne liye hum Maatpita ke baney hain. ZAROOR KOYI SAMAY GRUHASTHI HAIN JIS KAARAN UNKO TUM MAATPITAA KAHAA JAATAA HAI. Gaate toh hain parantu samajhte nahin. Abhi tum samajhte ho BEHAD KAA BAAP HAI TOH Maa BHI hai. IS Maa DWAARAA ARTHAATH PRAJAPITA BRAHMA DWAARAA ADOPT KIYAA HAI. Ab Prajapita donon (both ShivBaba and Brahma Baba) Baap thah_rey na. Pita dwaraa adopt kaise karenge. Baap toh maataa dwaara adopt karenge na. Ab TWAMEVA MAATAASHCHA PITAA… yah unko kahe yaa Brahma ko kahe? Gaate toh hain hum sabhi brothers hain, vo Father hai. Usmay toh maataa kaa prashn nahin. Gaayaa jaataa hai tum maatpitaa…. Ab maataa pitaa (= Maatpitaa) kaise bante hain, yah wonderful baatein hain na samajhne ki. Manushy moonjhte bhi honge. YAH SHARIR MALE KAA HONEY KAARAN MAATAA ADOPT KI GAYI. Vo hai Saraswati beti. Parantu beti dwaaraa toh adopt nahin kiyaa jaataa hai. YAH MAATAA BHI HAI TOH PITAA BHI HAI. Usnay ismay pravesh kiyaa hai, tab BRAHMA KO KHUD KAHTE HAIN TUM HUMAARAA BACHCHAA BHI HO, VANNI BHI HO. BAROBAR BAAP IN DWAARAA ADOPT KARTE HAIN TOH YAH MAATAA BHI HO JAATI HAI. -57- [maatpita, Prajapita, adoption]


= Like you souls come here and play your roles, become gruhasthis(house hold) I too have to become gruhasthi. Just once in Conf. Age, I become gruhasthi. Here, in front, you say Maatpita to me. Of course, you used to say so even before (in Bhaktimarg). But, I was not gruhasthi(incarnated) at that time. Now, I have become gruhasthi. That too, not of 2 tto 4 children. Lots of children are there. …Now, you know, you will get happiness in Golden Age. To get that happiness, you have become (children) of Maatpita. Definitely, at some point of time, God had become gruhasthi, that is why HE is praised (in Bhakti) as Maatpita. They praise, but do not know. Now, you know there is unlimited Father as well as mother. Through this mother, means through PPB, (you) have been adopted. Now, both the Prajapitas (ShivBaba and Prajapita Brahma) are Father (Shiv is Father and Brahma is male), is it not? How adoption can be done through a Father? Father adopts through mother, is it not? Now, “you are mother and Father”, should this be said to him(Shiv) or Brahma? People praise- “We all are brothers, HE is Father”. In this the question of mother does not arise. It is praised, You are maatpita, Now, how (he) becomes maatpita, these are wonderful matters to understand, is it not? People may be confused. This body is male, hence mother is adopted. She is Saraswati. But, through daughter, adoption cannot be done. (HENCE) THIS IS MOTHER AS WELL AS Father. HE entered in this. Then/hence (He) says to Brahma that- You are my child/son as well as wife. Father adopts through this. THEREFORE THIS BECOMES EVEN MOTHER.

9) SM 8-10-77(1):- Parmatma bhi padhaane ke liye jivatma bante hain aur inmey pravesh kar inko aur Brahma mukhvamshavali ko padhate hain. SWAYAM BRAHMA KO MUKHVAMSHAVALI NAHIN KAHENGE. Braahman Brahma mukhvamshavali hai. Brahma Shiv ki mukhvamshavali nahin hai. ShivBaba to aakar inmey pravesh karte hain, apnaa banaate hain. Yah bhi creation hai. Pahley Brahma ko rachte hain. Vishnu ko nahin rachte. Gaayaa bhi jata hai Brahma Vishnu aur Shankar. Vishnu Shankar aur Brahma nahin gaayaa jaataa hai. Pahley Brahma ko rachte hain.

= Supreme Soul also becomes jivatma (living soul) to teach, and (HE) enters in this and teaches this one and the mouth born progeny of Brahma....

10) If PBKs believe God does not become JIVATMA or GRUHASTHI, it is as good as denying incarnation of God.

11)These show how foolish PBKs are- both intellectually, as well as physically. Even their physical eyes are not able to observe the clear words- gruhasthi, jivatma, etc.
So- PBKs neither understand the meaning, nor can recognize the words even physically, and claim something else -totally opposite and claim that they are the intelligent (Gyani tu atmas). Let us still hope the very best for them.

* - In PBK view- the LN of Golden Age are like fools. So- obviously would/should degrade, is it not?
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# Flaw No. 476) PBKs inadvertently imply- One who has conquered attachment is a fool:-- :laugh:

12) In PBK view- the "attachment-free King" is said to the Golden Aged Kings**. But, they call Golden Aged LN as fools!
So- PBKs are implying- one who has conquered attachment is a FOOL!

** - In BK view- there is only one type of Laksmi & Narayan = Kings of G Age. - who are intelligent (pure, virtuous and powerful). The same LN are royal fools (when compared to Conf. Aged braahmins) since they will not have knowledge there.

[sita]

It seems it is not right to say the Father does not become jivatma, since you have quoted the points. But in his becoming a jivatma and becoming of jivatma of others souls there is difference. For eg. It s said that he does not eat.

The senses through the sense organs of the body sense when the mind is there to give attention. If our mind is concentrated on other place, there is no sensing through the organs. That is why it is possible to make an operation with anesthetic where the anesthetic is done through suggestion only. The Supreme Soul always has a peaceful mind that is not disturbed through any sense organ. If you would ask how he then uses the mouth I would say that he does not have connection with the body, but with the soul he comes in and he influences the soul whose body it is.

Regarding the attachment, there was a Murli point that the new world is for those who has conquered attachment. You can interpret it to mean the Confluence Age, but attachment is also a vice and the Golden Age is a world with no vice. But I would agree that you may call it subtle attachment or development of very subtle body-consiousness for the eyes, mouth etc. gradually due to enjoying sensual pleasures.

Baba has said that when it comes the soul is golden and then there is a mixture of silver, copper etc. It is said that there are original and acquired sanskars that belong to Ravan. So the soul gets influence by the color of the company of other souls who come later.

But it is right to say that the Supreme Soul changes form. See, Baba has himself said.

Whenever Bharat becomes a sinful soul and sorrowful, whenever there is irreligiousness, I come. I have to change my form. Surely, I will come in a human body.[Mu 16-12-73 Pg-1]

[mbbhat]

But it is right to say that the Supreme Soul changes form. See, Baba has himself said.

Whenever Bharat becomes a sinful soul and sorrowful, whenever there is irreligiousness, I come. I have to change my form. Surely, I will come in a human body.[Mu 16-12-73 Pg-1]

Actually, here, changing form means- putting costume/Chariot. The point of light does not get spread throughout the body or dissolves like salt in water. So- both do not match.

[There are several such Murli points, not a surprise. One is- Baba usually quotes the song- "Roop badalkar aavo".

[sita]

Whenever Bharat becomes a sinful soul and sorrowful, whenever there is irreligiousness, I come. I have to change my form. Surely, I will come in a human body.[Mu 16-12-73 Pg-1]

In this quote also it is seen that Bharat refers to a living soul.

[mbbhat]

Whenever Bharat becomes a sinful soul and sorrowful, whenever there is irreligiousness, I come. I have to change my form. Surely, I will come in a human body.[Mu 16-12-73 Pg-1]

In this quote also it is seen that Bharat refers to a living soul.

I would like to know in Hindi words.

[sita]

http://www.PBKs.info/Website%20written% ... 1hindi.pdf

You can see in the chapter: Bharat kaun? There are also other points that indicate him as living soul for eg. it is said that he takes 84 births.

[mbbhat]

I am yet to see the chapter. It is not easy to find. You may mention chapter or the page No. if you like.

But, even if it is there, it does not prove it is meant for Mr. Dixit, it can be for B baba.

[sita]

pg.63