# Post No. 108 = 106A) Addition to Post No. 106:-
491) In Post No. 106, we were comparing the titles used for God of Gita.
492)Following verses give title/name ISHWAR to God of Gita.
uttamaḥ puruṣhas tv anyaḥ paramātmety udāhṛitaḥ
yo loka-trayam āviśhya bibharty avyaya īśhvaraḥ - 15-17
upadraṣhṭānumantā cha bhartā bhoktā maheśhvaraḥ
paramātmeti chāpy ukto dehe ’smin puruṣhaḥ paraḥ - 13-23
samaṁ sarveṣhu bhūteṣhu tiṣhṭhantaṁ parameśhvaram
vinaśhyatsv avinaśhyantaṁ yaḥ paśhyati Silver Age paśhyati - 13-28
samaṁ paśhyan hi sarvatra samavasthitam īśhvaram
na hinasty ātmanātmānaṁ tato yāti parāṁ gatim - 13-29
bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśhvaram
suhṛidaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā māṁ śhāntim ṛichchhati - 05-29
493)Following verses give title Krishna to God of Gita.
a)ye śhāstra-vidhim utsṛijya yajante śhraddhayānvitāḥ
teṣhāṁ niṣhṭhā tu kā kṛiṣhṇa sattvam āho rajas tamaḥ - 17-01
b)na cha śhreyo ’nupaśhyāmi hatvā sva-janam āhave
na kāṅkṣhe vijayaṁ kṛiṣhṇa na cha rājyaṁ sukhāni cha - 1-32
c)yatra yogeśhvaraḥ kṛiṣhṇo yatra pārtho dhanur-dharaḥ
tatra śhrīr vijayo bhūtir dhruvā nītir matir Mama - 18-78*
* - In the last verse, Krishna is given the title Yogeshwar, which looks illogical. Actually/Usually title Ishwar is given for Shiva, not Krishna. Here, it looks as if the title Ishwar is hijacked by Sri Krishna (by the Gita writer/publisher). More on this will be written in next post.
494)Many other titles, eg- Madhusoodhan, Keshav, Hrushikesh, Govinda, etc. too are used for God of Gita.
--Madhusoodhan = One who killed demon Madhu
--Keshav = Hrushikesh = One who killed demon Keshi
--Govinda = Primeval God = One who is at the top/first.
am-uvācha hṛiṣhīkeśhaḥ prahasanniva bhārata
senayorubhayor-madhye viṣhīdantam-idaṁ vachaḥ - 2:10
pāñchajanyaṁ hṛiṣhīkeśho devadattaṁ dhanañjayaḥ
pauṇḍraṁ dadhmau mahā-śhaṅkhaṁ bhīma-karmā vṛikodaraḥ - 1:15
atha vyavasthitān dṛiṣhṭvā dhārtarāṣhṭrān kapi-dhwajaḥ
pravṛitte śhastra-sampāte dhanurudyamya pāṇḍavaḥ
hṛiṣhīkeśhaṁ tadā vākyam idam āha mahī-pate - 2- 20
na cha śhaknomy avasthātuṁ bhramatīva cha me manaḥ
nimittāni cha paśhyāmi viparītāni keśhava - 1-30
na cha śhaknomy avasthātuṁ bhramatīva cha me manaḥ
nimittāni cha paśhyāmi viparītāni keśhava - 1-30
mātulāḥ śhvaśhurāḥ pautrāḥ śhyālāḥ sambandhinas tathā
etān na hantum ichchhāmi ghnato ’pi madhusūdana - 1- 34
arjuna uvācha:
sthāne hṛiṣhīkeśha tava prakīrtyā
jagat prahṛiṣhyaty anurajyate cha
rakṣhānsi bhītāni diśho dravanti
sarve namasyanti cha siddha-saṅghāḥ - 11-36
sannyāsasya mahā-bāho tattvam ichchhāmi veditum
tyāgasya cha hṛiṣhīkeśha pṛithak keśhi-niṣhūdana - 18-01
Whether so many these titles point to incorporeal Shiva or human deity Sri Krishna- is a matter of debate and to have/use intellect to reach to the correct understanding.
False Gita, and its effect
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Re: False Gita, and its effects
# Post No. 109)-What is God's original/unique/real name?
# Post No. 110)-False Gita also has a role in forgetting God's real name:-
495) Take example of RICE. In English it is called rice, in Hindi it is called CHAAVAL. In different languages/regions/culture, its name changes. Because rice is an object. It can be owned by different people. Hence different people call it by different names. So- RICE does not have any unique/original name.
Also- note that- rice is not a master of itself in all aspects. It can have its own unique qualities and taste. In this aspect, it can be felt as master to some for some limited time. But, it is perishable and its both form and qualities change with respect to time.
Moreover, it can be burnt into ashes and immediately both its name and form change. Hence all the material objects are called as MITHYA/UNREAL/TEMPORARY/MORTAL, etc., because their existence in the same name and form do not exist always.
496)take example of animals. In English if we call an animal as DOG, the same will be called as KUTTA in Hindi. Because we human beings are superior to animals. Hence we call them as we choose. If a dog is owned by someone, then the owner may give any name to his dog as per his choice.
497)Take example of places. In English if we call a place as Delhi, in Hindi it can be called as Dilli, etc. Because it can be owned by others. Many people will build their houses/shops and they will keep different names for their parts in the land.
[But, as a whole, the name of a place usually do not change wrt time, because places have higher lifespan than their owners. Land/Nature has eternal existence. Physical body will perish and gets vanished fully, say within a hundred years, but land remains in the same form almost to a great extent. It does not get vanished like human or animal bodies. Hence even though it is human being who rules the land, still land's name remain same can centuries or millennium. ]
[But- when a land/place/Kingdom is conquered by other Kings, name of even the land can change if the new owner wishes. Similarly, when a state is divided into different parts, new names get introduced. ].
So- the point is - when any operation is done on the land by human beings, its name can get changed.
Even earth is called by different names in different language/religion/cultures.
498)Take example of human beings. Eg- Ramesh. In India, he would be called as Ramesh, in any country/language, he would be called by the same name.
Because human beings have the highest status in this world (after God, but all do not believe God). Each human being is seen as owner of himself. Hence a person's name cannot be changed without his/her permission.
[Till a child attains maturity, parents are its owners. Hence parents have right to give any name for their children. But after that the person only is owner of himself/herself.]
499)But, when a person changes his/her religion, his name changes. Why? Because the person admits superiority of religion over himself! Hence his name changes. Hence names in each religion follow different categories, is it not.
500)So- the point is- one who is superior, his name do not change often.
501)Take example of a soul. A soul is invisible. Also a soul has no role without its body. Hence a soul is recognized by its body. Hence a soul gets name according to the body it takes.
As the body changes (in different births), its name also changes (even though the soul remains the same). The reason is- any soul is affected by body to some or other extent. A soul is bound in a body throughout its lifespan in that birth. Hence name is given to the body instead of soul.
[A soul's form remains the same for eternal period, but its quality changes as per the body and actions.
Hence we call them by pure soul, impure soul, divine soul, religious soul, powerful soul, weak soul, happy soul, unhappy soul, etc. So- a soul will still be given name of the category to which it belongs.]
501)Take example of God (Supreme Soul). God is most superior, that is Supreme. Both form and quality of Supreme Soul remains same for eternal period.
No one will measure God as weak God, powerful God, pure God, impure God, etc. Because God is eternally pure, powerful, blissful, etc.
Since God remains AS HE IS- for eternal period, God alone is called as TRUTH. So- God should have an eternal name, is it not?
502) God's real name is SHIV.
That is why the title SADAA_SHIV is famous. No other name has prefix SADAA. SADAA means ALWAYS.
No deity has prefix SADAA. No one calls SadaaRam, SadaaKrishn, etc. This implies even the deities die(their physical body gets perished) and take rebirths. In next births, their names will get change as per their physical parents choose. Their form/appearance do not remain in the same way always.
So- It means SHIV alone remains as SHIV/SAME always, because Shiv is above birth and deaths, because HE is incorporeal. God has no parents, hence HE is called God Father, unlimited Father (Param_Pita).
503)A human being can have additional names like nickname and according to one's deeds. But his original name will not be affected(unless the owner himself chooses) even after getting nicknames.
Similarly, God can get additional names due to his extraordinary auspicious qualities and deeds. But, his original name Shiv cannot change. It remains unaffected.
504)A lower authority cannot keep or change name of its authority. A human cannot be called by an arbitrary name by any other person without his permission. If people call a same person by many different names without knowing his original name, it implies that they do not know his real/complete introduction.
Today- we can see different religions calling God by different names- Allah, Jehova, etc. Even in one religion, God has been given numerous, thousands of names.
No doubt, all these many names are valid due to unlimited qualities of God. But, ignorance of his original name, form, qualities, etc. is the root cause for difference in opinions and conflicts in them.
Names Allah, Jehova, etc. came later after the establishment of the respective religion. But, Hinduism is the most ancient.
505) Some may argue Allah or Jehova is the real name of God. But, is there any prefix that means ALWAYS with these names? Kindly provide if anyone has. [No doubt Allah, Jehova, etc. point to the same incorporeal God to whom the name Shiv points. But, what we try to say is- the original name is Shiv.]
506)Practically, if we see- most ancient temples in India are of Shiva temples, and Hinduism is the most ancient civilization, or at least one of the most ancient civilization. If any other civilization uses prefix ALWAYS to their God's name, kindly provide. We can do further discussions.
Shiv_Ling is also called as Jyotir_Ling, means God's ling/symbol/form is mainly/only light.
507)Since God is the Highest Authority, no one has right to call God by any name as he likes..
But, God is most humble. He does not object. Hence God is called by many names. [And- many of these names are correct as devotees consider HIM as the highest]. Hence the saying - God is one, but names are many.
But, unfortunately, people have forgotten his real name. And, it may not be wrong to say - False Gita is also one of the greatest causes for this loss.
# Post No. 110)-False Gita also has a role in forgetting God's real name:-
495) Take example of RICE. In English it is called rice, in Hindi it is called CHAAVAL. In different languages/regions/culture, its name changes. Because rice is an object. It can be owned by different people. Hence different people call it by different names. So- RICE does not have any unique/original name.
Also- note that- rice is not a master of itself in all aspects. It can have its own unique qualities and taste. In this aspect, it can be felt as master to some for some limited time. But, it is perishable and its both form and qualities change with respect to time.
Moreover, it can be burnt into ashes and immediately both its name and form change. Hence all the material objects are called as MITHYA/UNREAL/TEMPORARY/MORTAL, etc., because their existence in the same name and form do not exist always.
496)take example of animals. In English if we call an animal as DOG, the same will be called as KUTTA in Hindi. Because we human beings are superior to animals. Hence we call them as we choose. If a dog is owned by someone, then the owner may give any name to his dog as per his choice.
497)Take example of places. In English if we call a place as Delhi, in Hindi it can be called as Dilli, etc. Because it can be owned by others. Many people will build their houses/shops and they will keep different names for their parts in the land.
[But, as a whole, the name of a place usually do not change wrt time, because places have higher lifespan than their owners. Land/Nature has eternal existence. Physical body will perish and gets vanished fully, say within a hundred years, but land remains in the same form almost to a great extent. It does not get vanished like human or animal bodies. Hence even though it is human being who rules the land, still land's name remain same can centuries or millennium. ]
[But- when a land/place/Kingdom is conquered by other Kings, name of even the land can change if the new owner wishes. Similarly, when a state is divided into different parts, new names get introduced. ].
So- the point is - when any operation is done on the land by human beings, its name can get changed.
Even earth is called by different names in different language/religion/cultures.
498)Take example of human beings. Eg- Ramesh. In India, he would be called as Ramesh, in any country/language, he would be called by the same name.
Because human beings have the highest status in this world (after God, but all do not believe God). Each human being is seen as owner of himself. Hence a person's name cannot be changed without his/her permission.
[Till a child attains maturity, parents are its owners. Hence parents have right to give any name for their children. But after that the person only is owner of himself/herself.]
499)But, when a person changes his/her religion, his name changes. Why? Because the person admits superiority of religion over himself! Hence his name changes. Hence names in each religion follow different categories, is it not.
500)So- the point is- one who is superior, his name do not change often.
501)Take example of a soul. A soul is invisible. Also a soul has no role without its body. Hence a soul is recognized by its body. Hence a soul gets name according to the body it takes.
As the body changes (in different births), its name also changes (even though the soul remains the same). The reason is- any soul is affected by body to some or other extent. A soul is bound in a body throughout its lifespan in that birth. Hence name is given to the body instead of soul.
[A soul's form remains the same for eternal period, but its quality changes as per the body and actions.
Hence we call them by pure soul, impure soul, divine soul, religious soul, powerful soul, weak soul, happy soul, unhappy soul, etc. So- a soul will still be given name of the category to which it belongs.]
501)Take example of God (Supreme Soul). God is most superior, that is Supreme. Both form and quality of Supreme Soul remains same for eternal period.
No one will measure God as weak God, powerful God, pure God, impure God, etc. Because God is eternally pure, powerful, blissful, etc.
Since God remains AS HE IS- for eternal period, God alone is called as TRUTH. So- God should have an eternal name, is it not?
502) God's real name is SHIV.
That is why the title SADAA_SHIV is famous. No other name has prefix SADAA. SADAA means ALWAYS.
No deity has prefix SADAA. No one calls SadaaRam, SadaaKrishn, etc. This implies even the deities die(their physical body gets perished) and take rebirths. In next births, their names will get change as per their physical parents choose. Their form/appearance do not remain in the same way always.
So- It means SHIV alone remains as SHIV/SAME always, because Shiv is above birth and deaths, because HE is incorporeal. God has no parents, hence HE is called God Father, unlimited Father (Param_Pita).
503)A human being can have additional names like nickname and according to one's deeds. But his original name will not be affected(unless the owner himself chooses) even after getting nicknames.
Similarly, God can get additional names due to his extraordinary auspicious qualities and deeds. But, his original name Shiv cannot change. It remains unaffected.
504)A lower authority cannot keep or change name of its authority. A human cannot be called by an arbitrary name by any other person without his permission. If people call a same person by many different names without knowing his original name, it implies that they do not know his real/complete introduction.
Today- we can see different religions calling God by different names- Allah, Jehova, etc. Even in one religion, God has been given numerous, thousands of names.
No doubt, all these many names are valid due to unlimited qualities of God. But, ignorance of his original name, form, qualities, etc. is the root cause for difference in opinions and conflicts in them.
Names Allah, Jehova, etc. came later after the establishment of the respective religion. But, Hinduism is the most ancient.
505) Some may argue Allah or Jehova is the real name of God. But, is there any prefix that means ALWAYS with these names? Kindly provide if anyone has. [No doubt Allah, Jehova, etc. point to the same incorporeal God to whom the name Shiv points. But, what we try to say is- the original name is Shiv.]
506)Practically, if we see- most ancient temples in India are of Shiva temples, and Hinduism is the most ancient civilization, or at least one of the most ancient civilization. If any other civilization uses prefix ALWAYS to their God's name, kindly provide. We can do further discussions.
Shiv_Ling is also called as Jyotir_Ling, means God's ling/symbol/form is mainly/only light.
507)Since God is the Highest Authority, no one has right to call God by any name as he likes..
But, God is most humble. He does not object. Hence God is called by many names. [And- many of these names are correct as devotees consider HIM as the highest]. Hence the saying - God is one, but names are many.
But, unfortunately, people have forgotten his real name. And, it may not be wrong to say - False Gita is also one of the greatest causes for this loss.
-
mbbhat
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Re: False Gita, and its effects
Post No. 111) Shiva's Supremacy:-
510)Oldest temples in world or at least in India are of Shiva temples. 12 Jyotirling temples are highly famous. Temples of Krishna, Ram, etc. got established later only. This implies initially, there had been worship of only Shiva in Hinduism.
There are temples Rameshwar, Gopeshwar, which indicate Sri Ram and Sri Krishna worshipped Shiva. There are no temples indicating Shiva worshipped anyone. Hence it indicates Shiva is Supreme.
511)
a)Glory and Richness of Shiva Temples is (or had been) much more than other temples.
b)Words "Knowledge/jnaan/gyaan, Yoga, yagy/yajn" are associated with Shiv/Ishwar/Rudr (plus Brahma, Saraswati, Ganesh)*, not with Krishna. That is- Shiv_Gyaan, Gyaaneshwar, Yogeshwar, Rudr_yagy, etc, Brahm_gyaan, etc. are famous. There is no word such as Krishn_gyaan, Ram_gyaan, Krishn_yagy, Ram-yagy, Krishn_Yoga, Yoga_Krishn, etc.
d)The third eye of knowledge, (divine intellect and wisdom) is also shown to Shiv, none else. HE alone is called as TRI_NETRI (One who has third eye)
e)The highest word TRUTH/SATY/SATHY is associated with only God (the saying- "God is Truth"), as well as with Shiv (the saying- "Sathyam, Shivam, Sundaram".
f)In scriptures, Shiva alone is shown as having ability to drink poison. It means God Shiva has ability to eradicate vices from us. No other deity is shown as able to drink poison.
[Rudr, Ishwar are other names for Shiv].
Hence all the spiritual titles are associated with Shiv (and his helpers Brahma, Saraswati, Ganesh)*, not to Krishna or Ram, etc.
* - How Brahma, Saraswati, Ganesh, etc. are helpers of God Shiva- will be explained later.
512) Comparing meanings of names between Shiv and Krishna.
Meaning of Shiv = kalyaanakaari = Benefactor
Meaning of Ishwar = Master or Supreme.
Meaning of Rudr = The one who eradicates problems from their roots, One who drives away evil, One who is praiseworthy.
Meaning of Krishna is "Attractive, black/blue, etc".
From this point of view also, Shiva is highly superior to Krishna.
So- we can see meaning/status of Shiva stands much higher to Krishna.
513)Hence it is easy to judge that Shiva is Supreme from all the three ways-
---according to Gita verses(from Post No. 106 to 108),
---according to greatness of temples (from to point no. 510 and 511above), and
---according to name interpretations (from point No. 512 above)
514)So- the names- Madhusoodhan, Keshav, etc- these all indicate to kill demonic/vicious qualities that exist in our mind. [Actually God does not kill physically anyone. He gives us power to kill/eradicate vices in our mind and intellect through power of spiritual knowledge]. So-I think all these names apply to incorporeal God Shiva instead of deity Krishna.
515)So- I think the title "Yogeshwar Krishna" mentioned in the verse 18-78 (given in Post No. 108) is obviously erroneous. Because how can Krishna get title Yogeshwar? I think such verses are due to ignorance or adulteration. Readers are free to judge according to their analysis.
516)Or if anyone says- Shiva, Krishna, Brahma, etc. all refer to same God, even then, what is God's real/permanent/eternal name? - this question needs to be addressed.
If anyone claims God does not have single eternal name, then the claim of "God is truth" becomes false. Because if God's name too changes like human beings according to the body, then God's importance reduces.
[We human beings get many/different names in different bodies/births. So- if God's name also changes as Krishna(while being in body named Krishna), Ram (while being in body named Ram), etc, then God's importance reduces.] Of course, there is no wrong if God is called/praised by many names. But, HE SHOULD HAVE AN ENETRNAL NAME WHICH IS UNIQUE.
517)If anyone claims name Krishna is related to the soul, and not to the/his physical body, then we devotees should not meditate the soul form of Krishna, not the body form of Krishna.
Not only that- In Krishna temples, soul/ling form of Krishna should have been placed to worship, not bodily form, is it not?
518Hence as already said- God should have eternal name to HIS soul itself. That is Shiva- as already said. We can see- in Shiva temples ling(indication of incorporeal form) is placed, and that ling is called as Jyotir_Ling, meaning Light Symbol. [Jyoti = Light, Ling = Symbol]
All other deities' statues in temples are worshipped in bodily forms. This also implies names of all other deities apply to their bodies, not to soul (means that name is temporary for that birth only).
519)Now, a question arises- Why name Shiva is not mentioned in the Gita verses? Why instead ISHWAR and BHAGAVAAN are used there?
Words ISHWAR or BHAGAVAAN/BHAGAVAN stands for SUPREME, MASTER. These names are not related to body.
For example- title "Father of NATION of India" (here ISHWAR or BHAGAVAAN) or MOHANDAS KARAMCHAND GANDHI (here Shiva) both can be used to address that position.
But name of any other person is not valid for the post of Father of nation of India. Similarly, name of deity Krishna is not valid for the position of God and God of Gita.
510)Oldest temples in world or at least in India are of Shiva temples. 12 Jyotirling temples are highly famous. Temples of Krishna, Ram, etc. got established later only. This implies initially, there had been worship of only Shiva in Hinduism.
There are temples Rameshwar, Gopeshwar, which indicate Sri Ram and Sri Krishna worshipped Shiva. There are no temples indicating Shiva worshipped anyone. Hence it indicates Shiva is Supreme.
511)
a)Glory and Richness of Shiva Temples is (or had been) much more than other temples.
b)Words "Knowledge/jnaan/gyaan, Yoga, yagy/yajn" are associated with Shiv/Ishwar/Rudr (plus Brahma, Saraswati, Ganesh)*, not with Krishna. That is- Shiv_Gyaan, Gyaaneshwar, Yogeshwar, Rudr_yagy, etc, Brahm_gyaan, etc. are famous. There is no word such as Krishn_gyaan, Ram_gyaan, Krishn_yagy, Ram-yagy, Krishn_Yoga, Yoga_Krishn, etc.
d)The third eye of knowledge, (divine intellect and wisdom) is also shown to Shiv, none else. HE alone is called as TRI_NETRI (One who has third eye)
e)The highest word TRUTH/SATY/SATHY is associated with only God (the saying- "God is Truth"), as well as with Shiv (the saying- "Sathyam, Shivam, Sundaram".
f)In scriptures, Shiva alone is shown as having ability to drink poison. It means God Shiva has ability to eradicate vices from us. No other deity is shown as able to drink poison.
[Rudr, Ishwar are other names for Shiv].
Hence all the spiritual titles are associated with Shiv (and his helpers Brahma, Saraswati, Ganesh)*, not to Krishna or Ram, etc.
* - How Brahma, Saraswati, Ganesh, etc. are helpers of God Shiva- will be explained later.
512) Comparing meanings of names between Shiv and Krishna.
Meaning of Shiv = kalyaanakaari = Benefactor
Meaning of Ishwar = Master or Supreme.
Meaning of Rudr = The one who eradicates problems from their roots, One who drives away evil, One who is praiseworthy.
Meaning of Krishna is "Attractive, black/blue, etc".
From this point of view also, Shiva is highly superior to Krishna.
So- we can see meaning/status of Shiva stands much higher to Krishna.
513)Hence it is easy to judge that Shiva is Supreme from all the three ways-
---according to Gita verses(from Post No. 106 to 108),
---according to greatness of temples (from to point no. 510 and 511above), and
---according to name interpretations (from point No. 512 above)
514)So- the names- Madhusoodhan, Keshav, etc- these all indicate to kill demonic/vicious qualities that exist in our mind. [Actually God does not kill physically anyone. He gives us power to kill/eradicate vices in our mind and intellect through power of spiritual knowledge]. So-I think all these names apply to incorporeal God Shiva instead of deity Krishna.
515)So- I think the title "Yogeshwar Krishna" mentioned in the verse 18-78 (given in Post No. 108) is obviously erroneous. Because how can Krishna get title Yogeshwar? I think such verses are due to ignorance or adulteration. Readers are free to judge according to their analysis.
516)Or if anyone says- Shiva, Krishna, Brahma, etc. all refer to same God, even then, what is God's real/permanent/eternal name? - this question needs to be addressed.
If anyone claims God does not have single eternal name, then the claim of "God is truth" becomes false. Because if God's name too changes like human beings according to the body, then God's importance reduces.
[We human beings get many/different names in different bodies/births. So- if God's name also changes as Krishna(while being in body named Krishna), Ram (while being in body named Ram), etc, then God's importance reduces.] Of course, there is no wrong if God is called/praised by many names. But, HE SHOULD HAVE AN ENETRNAL NAME WHICH IS UNIQUE.
517)If anyone claims name Krishna is related to the soul, and not to the/his physical body, then we devotees should not meditate the soul form of Krishna, not the body form of Krishna.
Not only that- In Krishna temples, soul/ling form of Krishna should have been placed to worship, not bodily form, is it not?
518Hence as already said- God should have eternal name to HIS soul itself. That is Shiva- as already said. We can see- in Shiva temples ling(indication of incorporeal form) is placed, and that ling is called as Jyotir_Ling, meaning Light Symbol. [Jyoti = Light, Ling = Symbol]
All other deities' statues in temples are worshipped in bodily forms. This also implies names of all other deities apply to their bodies, not to soul (means that name is temporary for that birth only).
519)Now, a question arises- Why name Shiva is not mentioned in the Gita verses? Why instead ISHWAR and BHAGAVAAN are used there?
Words ISHWAR or BHAGAVAAN/BHAGAVAN stands for SUPREME, MASTER. These names are not related to body.
For example- title "Father of NATION of India" (here ISHWAR or BHAGAVAAN) or MOHANDAS KARAMCHAND GANDHI (here Shiva) both can be used to address that position.
But name of any other person is not valid for the post of Father of nation of India. Similarly, name of deity Krishna is not valid for the position of God and God of Gita.
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mbbhat
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Re: False Gita, and its effect
# Post No. 112)Introduction of God and Soul:-
521) Incorporeal Shiva is praised as
Ocean of Knowledge,
Ocean of bliss,
Ocean of of purity,
Ocean of happiness,
Ocean of all virtues,
Above Birth and Death
Above Pleasure and Pain
Unlimited Father, Mother, Teacher, Preceptor
Incorporeal (Niraakaari) or bodiless
Viceless (Nirvikaari)
Ego-less (Nir_Ahankaari)
Non-violent
Bestower of Peace and Happiness
Bestower of liberation and liberation-in-life.
Satyam, Shivam, Sundaram, etc, etc.
Everpure, Purifier
Conqueror of death.
Avyakt (non-Physical or metaphysical)
Sathyam Shivam Sundaram (Truth and Beautiful/Pure)
God's form is divine light and might, HIS size is tiny point. For worshipping, ling form is given in temples and pictures.]
522)Pure corporeal deity Sri Krishna is praised as-
Complete in all virtues,
Complete in 16 arts,
Completely vice-less,
Completely non-violent
Maryaadaa Purushottam,
Shyam_Sundaram (Black/Impure and Beautiful/Pure).
Both soul and body of Krishna are completely pure. The body does not get sweat, does not emit bad smell, but emits good smell. Body will be perfect without any smallest defect.
We can see the praise of incorporeal God is much higher than corporeal deity.
523)Since name Krishna applies to the body, it implies soul of Krishna (= soul residing in the body named Krishna) takes other births too.
Hence Krishna has title Shyaam_Sundar, means Krishna's stage changes from Sundar/Pure to Shyam/Impure/black/blue. This indicates the completely pure(SUNDAR) soul Krishna becomes completely impure (SHYAM) after many births. Hence logically speaking, to pass from full pure to fully impure stage, the soul should take more/many number of bodies/births. The influence of body only can make a soul impure. So- logically speaking, from the title Shyam_Sundar, soul of Krishna should go through many births.
Different births of soul of Krishna - we will explain later.
# Post No. 113)Meaning of NIRAAKAAR/INCOPOREAL:-
524)From the title Niraakaar, many people consider God has no form. But, aakaar means dimension, not form.
aakaar = dimension
Nir = Nil
Nir_aakaar = dimensionless.
So- niraakaar means dimensionless, not formless.
Take a solid material(eg- Box). It has all the three dimensions- length, breadth, and width/height/thickness.
Take a thin plane material. It has only two dimensions- length and breadth.
Take a line - It has only one dimension - length. Other two aakaars/dimensions are zero.
Take a point. It has no dimensions, means all the three values are zero. But, it does not mean that it is formless. It has a form, that is point-form.
So- niraakaar means dimension-less.
It means God is point.
------------- -------
525)Soul is also point-form/dimensionless/niraakaar.
But, a soul is influenced by its body (when it is in ignorance or forget-full stage).
The body is directly related to soul. A soul is owner of its body.
When we practice soul/incorporeal conscious stage, or consider soul as separate than body, we also can say- I am bodiless (= I the soul is separate/different than the body).
526)Soul is like a driver, and the body is like a car/vehicle/Chariot - this is also said in Gita. Verses will be put later.
Other examples are -
Soul is like owner, body is house,
Body is dress/chappal/shoes, and soul is the one that wears it.
Body is like instrument, soul is the operator.
Soul is like a battery, and the body is like the load circuit.
527)God (Supreme Soul) has no body of HIS own. So- God is not only separate than body, but also incorporeal/Supreme conscious all the time.
Hence the title/praise INCORPOREAL is given to God.
When we get knowledge of soul and God, we also become incorporeal conscious (Self and Supreme conscious).
528)
Jeev/Jiv = body
Jeevaatma = Soul in a body = also known as Living Soul .
In other words, Jeevaatma = driver on duty.
Just soul/atma/soul = driver at perfect rest or leave.
During sleep, we can say - Driver/soul on ordinary rest.
529)A soul has direct connection only with its body. In other words, a soul can operate/use anything only through its body. Without body, it is as good as a soul is fully isolated/disconnected.
Hence when we say- I am bodiless, it means "I am (Soul is) different than body". It is method of practicing soul-conscious stage or first step of spiritual knowledge and meditation (spiritual practice).
Hence when we use the term bodiless, it indicates the soul separate than body- that is the point.
Hence terms bodiless or incorporeal - both practically mean the same.
Bodiless stage = soul conscious stage
530)Physically "bodiless state" means- soul outside the body.
Spiritually, "bodiless state" means - soul within the body or outside the body, but being in soul-conscious stage" or "soul within the body or outside the body that is- fully pure without any sin or impure karmic account".
In other words-
Physically bodiless stage" means" a battery that is isolated".
Spiritually bodiless stage means "a battery that is being charged or fully charged". Means either having connection with power source (God) or that is fully charged/purified.
521) Incorporeal Shiva is praised as
Ocean of Knowledge,
Ocean of bliss,
Ocean of of purity,
Ocean of happiness,
Ocean of all virtues,
Above Birth and Death
Above Pleasure and Pain
Unlimited Father, Mother, Teacher, Preceptor
Incorporeal (Niraakaari) or bodiless
Viceless (Nirvikaari)
Ego-less (Nir_Ahankaari)
Non-violent
Bestower of Peace and Happiness
Bestower of liberation and liberation-in-life.
Satyam, Shivam, Sundaram, etc, etc.
Everpure, Purifier
Conqueror of death.
Avyakt (non-Physical or metaphysical)
Sathyam Shivam Sundaram (Truth and Beautiful/Pure)
God's form is divine light and might, HIS size is tiny point. For worshipping, ling form is given in temples and pictures.]
522)Pure corporeal deity Sri Krishna is praised as-
Complete in all virtues,
Complete in 16 arts,
Completely vice-less,
Completely non-violent
Maryaadaa Purushottam,
Shyam_Sundaram (Black/Impure and Beautiful/Pure).
Both soul and body of Krishna are completely pure. The body does not get sweat, does not emit bad smell, but emits good smell. Body will be perfect without any smallest defect.
We can see the praise of incorporeal God is much higher than corporeal deity.
523)Since name Krishna applies to the body, it implies soul of Krishna (= soul residing in the body named Krishna) takes other births too.
Hence Krishna has title Shyaam_Sundar, means Krishna's stage changes from Sundar/Pure to Shyam/Impure/black/blue. This indicates the completely pure(SUNDAR) soul Krishna becomes completely impure (SHYAM) after many births. Hence logically speaking, to pass from full pure to fully impure stage, the soul should take more/many number of bodies/births. The influence of body only can make a soul impure. So- logically speaking, from the title Shyam_Sundar, soul of Krishna should go through many births.
Different births of soul of Krishna - we will explain later.
# Post No. 113)Meaning of NIRAAKAAR/INCOPOREAL:-
524)From the title Niraakaar, many people consider God has no form. But, aakaar means dimension, not form.
aakaar = dimension
Nir = Nil
Nir_aakaar = dimensionless.
So- niraakaar means dimensionless, not formless.
Take a solid material(eg- Box). It has all the three dimensions- length, breadth, and width/height/thickness.
Take a thin plane material. It has only two dimensions- length and breadth.
Take a line - It has only one dimension - length. Other two aakaars/dimensions are zero.
Take a point. It has no dimensions, means all the three values are zero. But, it does not mean that it is formless. It has a form, that is point-form.
So- niraakaar means dimension-less.
It means God is point.
------------- -------
525)Soul is also point-form/dimensionless/niraakaar.
But, a soul is influenced by its body (when it is in ignorance or forget-full stage).
The body is directly related to soul. A soul is owner of its body.
When we practice soul/incorporeal conscious stage, or consider soul as separate than body, we also can say- I am bodiless (= I the soul is separate/different than the body).
526)Soul is like a driver, and the body is like a car/vehicle/Chariot - this is also said in Gita. Verses will be put later.
Other examples are -
Soul is like owner, body is house,
Body is dress/chappal/shoes, and soul is the one that wears it.
Body is like instrument, soul is the operator.
Soul is like a battery, and the body is like the load circuit.
527)God (Supreme Soul) has no body of HIS own. So- God is not only separate than body, but also incorporeal/Supreme conscious all the time.
Hence the title/praise INCORPOREAL is given to God.
When we get knowledge of soul and God, we also become incorporeal conscious (Self and Supreme conscious).
528)
Jeev/Jiv = body
Jeevaatma = Soul in a body = also known as Living Soul .
In other words, Jeevaatma = driver on duty.
Just soul/atma/soul = driver at perfect rest or leave.
During sleep, we can say - Driver/soul on ordinary rest.
529)A soul has direct connection only with its body. In other words, a soul can operate/use anything only through its body. Without body, it is as good as a soul is fully isolated/disconnected.
Hence when we say- I am bodiless, it means "I am (Soul is) different than body". It is method of practicing soul-conscious stage or first step of spiritual knowledge and meditation (spiritual practice).
Hence when we use the term bodiless, it indicates the soul separate than body- that is the point.
Hence terms bodiless or incorporeal - both practically mean the same.
Bodiless stage = soul conscious stage
530)Physically "bodiless state" means- soul outside the body.
Spiritually, "bodiless state" means - soul within the body or outside the body, but being in soul-conscious stage" or "soul within the body or outside the body that is- fully pure without any sin or impure karmic account".
In other words-
Physically bodiless stage" means" a battery that is isolated".
Spiritually bodiless stage means "a battery that is being charged or fully charged". Means either having connection with power source (God) or that is fully charged/purified.
-
mbbhat
- BK
- Posts: 3382
- Joined: 19 Jun 2008
- Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
- Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.
Re: False Gita, and its effect
531)In a Gita verse the title ISHWAR is also given to human soul. Because a soul is master/owner of its body. That is not very important here. But still put here. When I get the verse, I will put. Else, it is not important.
# Post No. 114)CONFUSION (AND ITS REMOVAL) ABOUT FORM OF SOUL AND Supreme Soul IN SCRIPTURES:-
532)Even though size of soul is mentioned as tiny point, many other verses/mantras say different. For example Swetavatsara Upanishad 05: 08 soul is thumb size. https://www.esamskriti.com/e/Spirituali ... God-2.aspx
Chapter 05 Mantra/Verse 8
aṅguṣṭhamātro ravitulyarūpaḥ saṃkalpāhaṃkārasamanvito yaḥ /
buddher guṇenātmaguṇena caiva ārāgramātro hy avaro 'pi dṛṣṭaḥ // 5.8 //
Of the size of a thumb, but brilliant, like the sun, the jiva possesses both volition and egoism. It is endowed with the qualities of both buddhi and Atman. Therefore it is seen as another entity (as different from Brahman) and as small as the point of a needle.
Even though form of Supreme Soul is mentioned as point in Gita (Refer Posts No. 73 and 104), God's form is also mentioned as Vishwaroop, brighter than thousands of sun, etc.
Hence there is confusion.
533)When there is confusion, it becomes duty of a learner/devotee to do some homework by churning on all these verses and come into right conclusion.
The best way to proceed in this homework is to churn on the highest attributes - like -
-Truth (Saty),
Knowledge (Gyaan),
Yoga/Meditation
Niraakaar (Dimensionless),
Character (Divine Virtues),
Bliss,
etc.
An attempt is made in this topic -(mainly Post No.s from 108 to 113, and at other posts too) in interpreting these highest words.
Hence our thinking says- Form of both God and Supreme Soul should be point.
534)ESSENCE has a great value in tiny space. Today, due to nanotechnology, large amount of data can be stored in small space, and sophisticated techniques can be derived from tiny devices. Power in a nuclear bomb is very large - even though the quantity of the nuclear fuel is very much less when compared to other fuels.
A gram of snake poison has potential to kill up to around one hundred people. Some very small doses of medicines- also have very high effects.
Similarly, the soul, even though is tiny point in size, it has a such a capacity to store karmic accounts of numerous births and influence body, and the world.
For example- in Hinduism, deities (eg- Durga, Kali) are shown with 6 or 8 or 10 hands. These hands do not exist physically. It indicates different powers in the soul which ordinary human being do not have.
Eg-
Power to tolerate
Power to discriminate
Power to adjust
Power to judge
Power to face
Power to Pack Up, etc.
535)Similarly, when we think of Vishwaroop of God, it indicates HE is Supreme, above all. It does not indicate size of God is large. Gold's value is higher. So, small size will value higher than Copper, Iron, etc.
Similarly, if God or deities also need 6, 8, 10 hand to operate, it makes God as subordinate to nature. Because in todays technology, pressing a button can do lot many things.
So- expecting God or deities to use hands physically to do actions, will underrate value of God and deities.
536)A point to be thought is - If size of soul is thumb size, then when a person dies (= when the soul leaves the body), there should have been some sort of opening in the body - in the direction where soul left the body, is it not? But, practically, we do not see any wound or damage in the body when a soul leaves its body.
537)Hence - after the churning - we can come to the conclusion that - the highest miracles in the world are Soul and Supreme Soul- that is even though they are very tiny point forms, they are the most important entities in the universe. It is this small size metaphysical entities that use and/or direct the Universe.
538) A supporting point- even from practical point of view is - In Hinduism, point/dot on forehead has the highest significance. For every deity, a dot is placed on forehead. Even for Shiv_Ling, a dot is put in its centre with three parallel horizontal lines together.
The dot in the ling indicates- Shiv is not as big as the ling stone. HE is just a point.
The three lines indicate- Shiv is trikaaladarshi (one who can see three aspects of time- past, present and future), trinetri (eye of wisdom), trilokinaath (owner of all the Three Worlds), Trimurti (creator of the trinity deities- Brahma, Vishnu, and Shankar), etc.
Some devotees also put three lines on their forehead and arms too. This is mostly, copying from the three lines shown to Shiv_Ling, is it not?
539)Interestingly, 05: 08 says soul is thumb size. 05: 09 says soul is point size.
vālāgraśatabhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya cha /
bhāgo jīvaḥ Silver Age vijñeyaḥ Silver Age cānantyāya kalpate // 5.9 //
= Know the embodied soul to be a part of the hundredth part of the point of a hair divided a hundred times; and yet it is infinite.
And verse 05:08 also says soul is radiant like sun! Can sun level radiation reside in a human body without harming it?
Verse 05:09 says - soul is point size, but also infinite! Can smallest thing be infinite?
So- if we churn these things, we can understand that the words- "radiant like sun ", ",infinite", etc. are spiritual significance. That is spiritually bright and powerful or infinite, etc., not physically.
Because if soul is physically bright as sun, it will destroy the very body where it resides.
Hence the Vishwaroop (Universal Form) of sun also indicates spiritual power of God. It does not mean God's radiance is physically as bright as thousand suns together, is it not?
Not only that- if we attribute/praise highest qualities of God as physical ones, then we bring down level of God from spiritual to physical and nature. It is actually degrading God.
No physical activity can bring us bliss. Bliss is supersensuos joy. It is divine. It can be experienced only by becoming conscious of soul and Supreme Soul. That is to imbibe the original spiritual qualities. It is a mental and intellectual process, not physical process. Good physical activities and actions can support (or required for) this mental/intellectual activity , but primarily, it is inner practice.
In other words we can say- good exercise and living habits are also essential (with good diet) for healthiness, but life is sustained by food, water and air, not primarily by adopting exercise or good living habits.
# Post No. 114)CONFUSION (AND ITS REMOVAL) ABOUT FORM OF SOUL AND Supreme Soul IN SCRIPTURES:-
532)Even though size of soul is mentioned as tiny point, many other verses/mantras say different. For example Swetavatsara Upanishad 05: 08 soul is thumb size. https://www.esamskriti.com/e/Spirituali ... God-2.aspx
Chapter 05 Mantra/Verse 8
aṅguṣṭhamātro ravitulyarūpaḥ saṃkalpāhaṃkārasamanvito yaḥ /
buddher guṇenātmaguṇena caiva ārāgramātro hy avaro 'pi dṛṣṭaḥ // 5.8 //
Of the size of a thumb, but brilliant, like the sun, the jiva possesses both volition and egoism. It is endowed with the qualities of both buddhi and Atman. Therefore it is seen as another entity (as different from Brahman) and as small as the point of a needle.
Even though form of Supreme Soul is mentioned as point in Gita (Refer Posts No. 73 and 104), God's form is also mentioned as Vishwaroop, brighter than thousands of sun, etc.
Hence there is confusion.
533)When there is confusion, it becomes duty of a learner/devotee to do some homework by churning on all these verses and come into right conclusion.
The best way to proceed in this homework is to churn on the highest attributes - like -
-Truth (Saty),
Knowledge (Gyaan),
Yoga/Meditation
Niraakaar (Dimensionless),
Character (Divine Virtues),
Bliss,
etc.
An attempt is made in this topic -(mainly Post No.s from 108 to 113, and at other posts too) in interpreting these highest words.
Hence our thinking says- Form of both God and Supreme Soul should be point.
534)ESSENCE has a great value in tiny space. Today, due to nanotechnology, large amount of data can be stored in small space, and sophisticated techniques can be derived from tiny devices. Power in a nuclear bomb is very large - even though the quantity of the nuclear fuel is very much less when compared to other fuels.
A gram of snake poison has potential to kill up to around one hundred people. Some very small doses of medicines- also have very high effects.
Similarly, the soul, even though is tiny point in size, it has a such a capacity to store karmic accounts of numerous births and influence body, and the world.
For example- in Hinduism, deities (eg- Durga, Kali) are shown with 6 or 8 or 10 hands. These hands do not exist physically. It indicates different powers in the soul which ordinary human being do not have.
Eg-
Power to tolerate
Power to discriminate
Power to adjust
Power to judge
Power to face
Power to Pack Up, etc.
535)Similarly, when we think of Vishwaroop of God, it indicates HE is Supreme, above all. It does not indicate size of God is large. Gold's value is higher. So, small size will value higher than Copper, Iron, etc.
Similarly, if God or deities also need 6, 8, 10 hand to operate, it makes God as subordinate to nature. Because in todays technology, pressing a button can do lot many things.
So- expecting God or deities to use hands physically to do actions, will underrate value of God and deities.
536)A point to be thought is - If size of soul is thumb size, then when a person dies (= when the soul leaves the body), there should have been some sort of opening in the body - in the direction where soul left the body, is it not? But, practically, we do not see any wound or damage in the body when a soul leaves its body.
537)Hence - after the churning - we can come to the conclusion that - the highest miracles in the world are Soul and Supreme Soul- that is even though they are very tiny point forms, they are the most important entities in the universe. It is this small size metaphysical entities that use and/or direct the Universe.
538) A supporting point- even from practical point of view is - In Hinduism, point/dot on forehead has the highest significance. For every deity, a dot is placed on forehead. Even for Shiv_Ling, a dot is put in its centre with three parallel horizontal lines together.
The dot in the ling indicates- Shiv is not as big as the ling stone. HE is just a point.
The three lines indicate- Shiv is trikaaladarshi (one who can see three aspects of time- past, present and future), trinetri (eye of wisdom), trilokinaath (owner of all the Three Worlds), Trimurti (creator of the trinity deities- Brahma, Vishnu, and Shankar), etc.
Some devotees also put three lines on their forehead and arms too. This is mostly, copying from the three lines shown to Shiv_Ling, is it not?
539)Interestingly, 05: 08 says soul is thumb size. 05: 09 says soul is point size.
vālāgraśatabhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya cha /
bhāgo jīvaḥ Silver Age vijñeyaḥ Silver Age cānantyāya kalpate // 5.9 //
= Know the embodied soul to be a part of the hundredth part of the point of a hair divided a hundred times; and yet it is infinite.
And verse 05:08 also says soul is radiant like sun! Can sun level radiation reside in a human body without harming it?
Verse 05:09 says - soul is point size, but also infinite! Can smallest thing be infinite?
So- if we churn these things, we can understand that the words- "radiant like sun ", ",infinite", etc. are spiritual significance. That is spiritually bright and powerful or infinite, etc., not physically.
Because if soul is physically bright as sun, it will destroy the very body where it resides.
Hence the Vishwaroop (Universal Form) of sun also indicates spiritual power of God. It does not mean God's radiance is physically as bright as thousand suns together, is it not?
Not only that- if we attribute/praise highest qualities of God as physical ones, then we bring down level of God from spiritual to physical and nature. It is actually degrading God.
No physical activity can bring us bliss. Bliss is supersensuos joy. It is divine. It can be experienced only by becoming conscious of soul and Supreme Soul. That is to imbibe the original spiritual qualities. It is a mental and intellectual process, not physical process. Good physical activities and actions can support (or required for) this mental/intellectual activity , but primarily, it is inner practice.
In other words we can say- good exercise and living habits are also essential (with good diet) for healthiness, but life is sustained by food, water and air, not primarily by adopting exercise or good living habits.
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