Flaws in PBK Philosophy

[jaycdp]

You said this -

Ahimsa paramo dharma.

[mbbhat]

Post No. 626:-

My question is we are reaching the time 2037, that is only 13 14 years, Shiva only spoke words through brahma baba, ...

In other words both BK and PBK are repeating out loudly with mouth and no purity is seen in both side.

... How can Shiva become such a careless Father.

Sorry that I noticed your posts later.

720)To understand God, we should also understand drama. Else, anyone can accuse God in various ways.

Due to being engaged in lowkik professional work and service, in majority of BKs, that may not be visible. And, due to sang dosh, some minor mistakes/sins may happen.

721)Comparing the followers and the religious Father or his teachings, where will it go? Let's see.
If you discard Christianity religion just by saying/feeling as - Behaviour of Majority of Christians are far away from Jesus Christ, you only will be proved wrong. Christianity religion does not need any certificate from others.

If we start/expect finding Jesus Christ (a simple eg- love your neighbour as you love yourself) in each and every Christian, where will we end???
Colonization by British, America and Russia Cold war, Funding terrorism by America, America putting bombs in Iraq, Syria, todays war between Russia and Ukraine etc. -much more can be written.

Similarly, if we expect to search Buddha in Buddhist dominant countries, where will we end? Enmity between Japan and China, Japans' conquests till World war 2, Genocides in Cambodia, etc-
What are living styles in Buddhist dominant countries? Had majority of Buddhist followers were vegetarian, non violent like Buddha? OK, let's forget today. Is there any source that says- at least for few or couple of centuries am majority percentage in these countries had followed life style close to Buddha?

722)But- practically, I feel dharna of BKs is not such a great far from BK teachings when compared to the difference between Christ/Bible and Christians or Buddha and Buddhists, etc.
Also- as per BK philosophy itself - to expect purity in every Bk would be wrong - because BK philosophy itself says- just 8 or 108 will be fully pure.

So- your argument even though very much valid [Baba also says in Murli - jab tak tumhaarey mein divy gun na deekhey, log tumhaaree baath par vishwaas kaise karey? = Till you inculcate divine virtues, how can people believe in your words/teachings], does not hold value.

As we know, it is numberwaar/numberwise in drama, there will be varieties of parts. Those who have the capacity to accept variety/all only will reach top.

723)If you have more queries regarding BKs, you can address at a different topic (Eg- Questions for BKs], as this topic is about "Flaws in PBK philosophy."

Thank You Ji.

[jaycdp]

"After rudra beads there is beads of Vishnu...this rudra beads than are added to Vishnu beads that is going to Vishnu's rule(or empire)"

Do you mean "these Rudra beads then are added to Vishnu beads" ?

[jaycdp]

... Murli points

I have tried to interpret the Murli stance to English on my strength so it is possible that it might be not accurate....so plz go through accordingly....if any mistake is there I apologize for the same

If any of the members can interpret the above Murli in fine and better way at least near to accuracy then plz go ahead....

Not that bad since you have provided the quote from the Murli, now we can find out real English translation.
Thanks for bringing up the original Murli at the first place again.
Even my understanding was similar to shivsena brother.

[jaycdp]

Because making such claims (of purity) means that we are egotistic, whereas Baba has come to make us nirahankari (egoless).

Apparently.

Dear beloved mhbhat bk brother,

BKs and PBKs state that purity can be experienced individually or collectively, as you feel the ocean of peace with stillness in your mind and intellect.
Here, the question is :
When was the last time you felt purity (union of bindu to supreme Bindu)?

If you have experienced recently my question is, did you feel it continuously or the experience was fragmented, and how long did it last?

Furthermore let me apologize for asking too many questions ..
Finally, how would you explain your experience of purity in a bk center?

Thank you.

[jaycdp]

Dear pbk brothers.

The teaching of PBKs that 2.25 lakh couples(ie 4.5 lakh souls) will survive the destruction...is this mentioned in any Murli or Vani or is it exclusively the teaching of advance knowledge; if we accept the theory that 4.5 lakh souls will give birth to twins, then doubling will mean that only 9 lakh souls will be present ; but since it is taught in basic knowledge that at the beginning of Satyug 9,16,108 souls will present on earth, then what about the 16108 souls... where do they come from ????

Also what is the criteria for selection of 4.5 lakh souls who will not leave bodies and 4.5 lakh souls who will leave bodies and take birth as twin children. Is there any criteria or is it random selection.

Can any pbk please clarify.

Dear shivasena brother,

Are you satisfied with the answer provided by the PBKs brother?

[mbbhat]

Dear beloved mbbhat bk brother,

When was the last time you felt purity (union of bindu to supreme Bindu)?

If you have experienced recently my question is, did you feel it continuously or the experience was fragmented, and how long did it last?

Furthermore let me apologize for asking too many questions ..
Finally, how would you explain your experience of purity in a bk center?

Thank you.

Everyday, I experience purity dear soul.

By the way, this topic is for discussing flaws in PBK Philosophy. Hence, if you wish, you may start a new topic. There it can be discussed.

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 627) PBK Word Ek_Vyaapi is illogical:-

725)Baba says- "God is not Sarva_Vyaapi (God is not Omnipresent). The Bhakti belief is wrong. God resides in Paramdham, not everywhere/everything"

Sarva = Everything or Everywhere
Vyaapi = Spread across/throughout
Ek/Eka = One

726)But, Mr. Dixit in his usual way to target BKs, and hence in his way of inverted intellect churning, used a different opposite word and created word = Ek_Vyaapi.

PBKs claim God is Ek_Vyaapi (God resides in only one = Mr. Dixit's physical body).

But, meaning of Ek_Vyaapi turns to be point of light God is SPREAD THROUGHOUT THE BODY of Mr. Dixit- which is again absurd.

727)In fact, by default itself, PBK claim is wrong, as they themselves believe from 1947 to 1969 ShivBaba/God had been entering body of B baba.
PBKs also believe inadvertently imply- God would be in subtle body of Baba even after 1969. [Since they claim both point of light Shiv/ShivBaba as well as subtle Brahma Baba would be in body of Mr. Dixit - at least when so-called clarification of Murlis is being spoken through Mr. Dixit].
So- even after 1969, Supreme Soul Shiv would be in subtle body of Brahma, as well as Dixit as per PBKs.

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 628)PBKs do not hesitate to manipulate words in lowkik Gita too:-

728) In the link - 29th May 2024 - here - https://www.bk-pbk.in/viewtopic.php?p=5 ... 9f4#p57517

In the Shrimad Bhagwatgita that aadi-anadi purush (eternal being) has been praised – (tamev chadhyam purusham prapdhye yatah pravrittih prasoota puraani I Gita 15/4), i.e., I bow to that aadi-anaadi purush, who has first of all created this world-like tree. ...

The Gita sloka 15:4 (=15/4) does not say- I bow.

729)What does the PBK try to prove from the words - I(Gita Sermonizer) bow?

---a)Do PBKs claim Mr. Dixit bows to Supreme Soul Shiv? Mostly no. Because the title "aadi-anaadi purush" PBKs mostly would like to reserve for Mr. Dixit only.
---b)Do the PBKs here claim B Baba bows to SS Shiv? Mostly no. Because then Mr. Dixit will have no place at all.
---c)Do the PBKs claim here that B Baba bows to aadi anaadi purush Mr. Dixit? May be Yes. This is what they try usually try to manipulate to show B baba is lower to Mr. Dixit. In that case, PBKs inadvertently imply that words of Gita are of human only. God has no/secondary place.

730)The right translation of 15/3 & 15/4 is : BG 15.3-4: The real form of this tree is not perceived in this world, neither its beginning nor end, nor its continued existence. But this deep-rooted aśhvatth tree must be cut down with a strong axe of detachment. Then one must search out the base of the tree, which is the Supreme Lord, from whom streamed forth the activity of the universe a long time ago. Upon taking refuge in Him, one will not return to this world again.

You may see any link, few are here - https://www.holy-bhagavad-Gita.org/chap ... etachment.
https://thegita.net/thegita-chapter-15-shloka-04/

The sloka says- "Upon taking refugee in Him." Here, Gita Sermonizer and Him - both are one and the same. But, PBKs translate this as- "I bow to Him", as if two are different.

731)Do PBKs try to say- Lowkik/False Gita is yaadgaar of BKWSU Murlis. (They even do not hesitate to call BK Murlis as False Murlis/Gita). So, authority of is of B baba. Hence in the false Gita B Baba says- I bow to Mr. Dixit??
Even then it does not fit. Because if B Baba says- I bow to Mr. Dixit, then God has no place in Gita. Only corporeal personalities are ruling it.

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 629)PBKs openly claim title of Hiranyakashyap once again for their leader:-

732) In the same link mentioned above,

In the picture of Trinity Shiva published by the Brahmakumaris organization Dada Lekhraj has been picturised as Brahma,... AIVV believes that after 1969 the incorporeal Supreme Soul Shiva is giving the true knowledge of Gita and teaching easy RajYoga to all the human souls through another corporeal human Chariot called Shiv Shankar Bholenath, ...

PBKs openly use name of God Shiv to corporeal human Chariot. Hence act as Hiranyakashyap.

# Flaw No. 630)PBKs claim there are two Gitas or two Gods of Gita or two chariots for Gita-

AIVV believes that after 1969 the incorporeal Supreme Soul Shiva is giving the true knowledge of Gita and teaching easy RajYoga to all the human souls through another corporeal human Chariot called Shiv Shankar Bholenath, ...

733)PBKs here claim there is another Chariot, so they claim there are two chariots.
No PBK is replying to the query put in the previous post- whether they certify corporeal personalities for the position of Gita Sermonizer or incorporeal.

# Flaw No. 631)PBKs inadvertently imply- their so-called Conf. Aged Krishna or their Chariot is insignificant in whole drama:-

734)Interestingly, BKs claim incorporeal SS Shiv is God of Gita through directly through Brahma Baba (and then indirectly through braahmins).

But, PBKs claim there are two chariots, the former one is title holder only. Usually, PBKs claim- title holder personality has no significance/yaadgaar/worshipfulness, etc.
They claim all worships are for so-called Confluence Aged Krishna, Narayan, Ram, etc.

Sometimes they also use the Murli point- "What all happens in Conf. Age, its traditions happens in Bhaktimarg". Using this Murli point, PBKs say- Highlighting B Baba as Chariot is the cause for insertion of Krishna's name in Gita. '

735)Now, by claiming so, PBKs inadvertently imply- their Chariot is weaker than Brahma baba in the whole drama.
When PBKs claim real Gita had been taught through Mr. Dixit, it should have been reflected in Bhaktimarg too (PBK Shankar should have been shown as Chariot of Gita in Bhakti too), is it not?
But, it did not happen.
So, when this highest role of Gita episode (what PBKs believe to be through Mr. Dixit) does not reflect in world drama, then they inadvertently imply that their Chariot is weak, right?

736)Or since PBKs believe there are two chariots in Confluence Age, two Gitas in Conf. Age (one Murli, another being clarification of Murlis), then in the reflection in the world drama, there should have been two Gitas or at least two chariots for Gita or in bhakimarg too, is it not?*

So- in any way- PBK theory fails. By claiming in Hiranyakashyap way, PBKs fell into their own trap intellectually.

737)First of all, there is no concept of Chariot in lowkik Gita believers at all. Every BK or PBK believes firmly in Chariot concept. Then why this concept has not been reflected in Bhaktimarg? Has any PBK have answer for this?
By claiming wrong things, PBKs inadvertently violate their own basic rules.

# Flaw No. 632)If four/five heads to Brahma are correct, why no two heads to Krishna, Narayan, Lakshmi, Jagadamba, etc?:-

*738)Baba in Murlis clearly say - showing four/five heads to Brahma is incorrect. {we know that the significance is soul of Brahma Baba sees all the four/five ages in world drama].

But, Mr. Dixit in his manipulation, claimed that there are really four/five Brahmas, etc, etc.

So- in the same way- since PBKs believe there are really two Krishnas, two Narayans, two Lakshmis, two Jagadambas (one in Conf. age, one in Golden Age) why no two heads are shown to Krishna and Narayan and Lakshmi, Jagadamba, etc?

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 633)PBKs' claim of

---different/many Krishnas
----Mr. Dixit as ordinary form of Krishna or Chariot,
----Mr. Dixit as Confluence Aged Krishna, etc. etc.

all fail once again:-

740) SM 9-4-83(1):- Srimath may bhagavadgita hai na. Gita hai shaastr kaa naam. JAISE CHRIST KA BIBLE, SRIMATH CHRIST KA BIBLE. Toh Baap samjhaate hai bhagavaan ki hai srimath. Ab srimath jab kahaa jataa hai, toh zaroor samajhna chaahiye yah toh oonch bhagavaan ki hee math hai. Srimath brahma ki va Vishnu ki nahin kahte. SRIMATH BHAGAVAAN AAKAR BRAHMA TANN SE KAISE DETE HAIN, YAH MANUSHY NAHIN JAANTE. VAH SAMAJHTE NAHIN BRAHMA PHIR NEECHE KAISE AATAA HAI. VAH TOH HAI SOOKSHMVATANVAASI. TOH IN BAATON KO NA JAN_NE KAARAN KRISHN KA NAAM DE DIYAA HAI. AISE BHI NAHIN HO SAKTAA KRISHN KA KOYI SAADHAARAN ROOP HAI JISMAY PARMATMA PRAVESH KARTE HAIN. Yah baatein koyi nahin jaante. -135- [Prajapita, srimath, Gita, WOT]

= ...How Bhagavaan/God enters in Brahma and gives Srimath, people do not know. They do not understand how can Brahma come down. They think Brahma is Subtle Region resident. So- DUE TO NOT UNDERSTANDING THESE MATTERS, THEY HAVE GIVEN NAME OF Krishna (in Gita). THERE CANNOT BE ANY ORDINARY FORM OF Krishna IN WHICH GOD CAN ENTER. No one knows these matters.

741)PBKs claim the following.
----PBKs give name Krishna to Mr. Dixit also and call him as Confluence Aged Krishna.
----PBKs give name Krishna to B Baba in Confluence Age itself (actually Krishna is of Golden Age). But, they claim it as title holder Krishna.
------Mr. Dixit is ordinary personality and B Baba is not ordinary. In this way, they inadvertently imply Mr. Dixit as ordinary form of Krishna, blah, blah, blah.
----PBKs claim God enters in two Krishnas (in B Baba 1947 to 1969 and then in Mr. Dixit after after 1969)

But, the above Murli point clearly says- there are no different/other forms of Krishna in which God can enter. Hence all the above claims of PBKs prove wrong.

742) PBKs accuse BKWSU that - due to word PITAASHREE being put in Sakar Murlis is the cause for the name Krishna being inserted in Gita in Bhaktimarg.

But, the above Murli point disproves this also. It clearly says the cause is- not being able to understand the two roles of Brahma - first within this world in corporeal body and second in Subtle Region in subtle body.

[mbbhat]

Continuation:-Killing two/three birds in one stone

SM 9-4-83(1):- THERE CANNOT BE ANY ORDINARY FORM OF Krishna ...

743)Why Baba stresses about ORDINARY, IMPURE and EXPERIENCED body/Chariot in Murlis? No PBK has replied about this so far. PBKs just utter word "ordinary body" just like parrots and claim Mr. Dixit's body is fir for all these titles.

744)This aspect is also mentioned in Gita verse 9-11 that people fail to recognize God when HE comes in human form. Here - https://vedabase.io/en/library/bg/9/11/

"Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature as the Supreme Lord of all that be. - (Gita 9-11)"

745)But, Gita preachers interpret this wrongly (one can search in google).

Actually this Murli point is like killing two birds from one stone. (applicable to any lowkik person to prove that God comes in impure body/world as well as to Gita believers who wrongly claim that the human form mentioned in verse 9-11 is Sri Krishna. But, actually it is meant for Brahma). More about this will be said in topic Gita, post No. 132)- viewtopic.php?p=57622&sid=b3ca5233080f1 ... a37#p57622

746)But, PBKs misinterpreted this Murli point and kept on claiming wrongly like lowkik ignorant devotees that Mr. Dixit's body fits for God's Chariot.
Moreover, to prove their views in this manipulation, PBKs claim that all the Murli points are mentioned for BK-PBK world, for Confluence Age. They even claim names mentioned for lowkik personalities in Murli like Bapuji (= M K Gandhi), Nehru, Indira Gandhi, etc. are also meant for BK-PBK personalities (in their so-called UNLIMITED SENSE). Hence they also claim Krishna, Ram, etc. said im Murlis also refer to Confluence Aged personalities (first), then only to the Golden and Silver Ages.

Now- the above Murli point directly says- "there cannot be any ordinary form of Krishna". So- PBKs fell into their own pit.

747)So- if we add PBKs to the list, the above Murli point is like - "Killing three birds in one stone".
Now, PBKs can neither call Mr. Dixit as Krishna nor as ordinary.
[Of course, for BKs any Iron Aged body is ordinary and impure body (even though not experienced). But for PBKs, it is not so. Hence they themselves tied their own hands and became intellectually handicapped.]

[mbbhat]

748)A small correction.

747)Now, PBKs can neither call Mr. Dixit as Krishna nor as ordinary.

The above sentence should have been "747)Now, PBKs can neither call Mr. Dixit as Krishna nor as a Chariot". [Because their comparison of term ORDINARY is never been with deities/Krishna. Their comparision is with B Baba only. ]

# Flaw No. 634)PBKs claim all the names are meant for Confluence Age, but inadvertently say otherwise:-

# Flaw No. 635)PBK comparision between the chariots is invalid by default itself:-

# Flaw No. 636)PBKs inadvertently and openly agree/claim God entered in extra-ordinary body:-

749)PBKs claim all the names/roles said in Murlis refer to Confluence Age personality/life, not even to Golden or Silver Age life.
But, for the term ORDINARY Chariot- PBKs use/compare the Iron Aged life of B Baba! Is this not a failure or double standard of PBKs?
When PBKs equate the words/names Nehru, Indira Gandhi in etc. in Murlis for Conf. Aged life, how can they use B Baba's lowkik professional photo to compare?

750)Even if PBKs use B Baba's lowkik name for the comparison of the chariots, they should have two meanings - the one so- called the "limited sense", the other so-called "unlimited sense"].

751)So- in their so-called UNLMITED sense, if they compare between B Baba and Mr. Dixit (which is of primary importance), and claim Mr. Dixit's body/personality is ordinary, they obviously lose the status, because UNLIMITED comparision is the real criteria. That is- if B Baba's Chariot is extra-ordinary(special, greater) than Mr. Dixit (in unlimited sense), then B baba would have higher place than Mr. Dixit.

752)If they compare- in their so-called LIMITED sense, that would obviously become of lesser importance hence fit to be ignored.

753)And- By the time Mr. Dixit came to BKWSU, B Baba had already left his mortal coil. So- comparision between Mr. Dixit's physical body and that of B Baba itself becomes invalid.

754)Or, if PBKs claim the real comparision is between Sevakram and B Baba's body, even then they lose their claim. First reason is already said is 751.
---Another reason is- if this comparision is given the preference, then body of Sevakram becomes higher importance then Mr. Dixit. Hence part through Sevakram would get higher importance than through Mr. Dixit.
---But, Sevakram's part was very less and also totally incomplete. So- even that role/body will lose importance.

755)PBKs claim B Baba's body or lowkik status was extra-ordinary. They also say- from 1947 to 1969 God entered in B Baba. So- PBKs inadvertently/openly agree/claim that God enters in extra-ordinary Chariot.

756)So- in all aspects, PBKs lose all the claims and status.

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 637) PBKs inadvertently imply- "PBKs have no connection with either Shiva or Shankar, hence are not connected spiritually with Shiva or any soul:-

757)PBKs mock at BKs that- BK is half caste, because P(Prajapita) is missing in BK. According to the PBK manipulation theory, Brahma and Prajapita are different. But, it is wrong and already disproved.

758)Full name of BKs is - "Shiv_Vamshi Swadarshan Chakradhaari Braahman Kul Bhooshan "= Swadarshan Chakradhaari children of Shiv and braahmins (children of Brahma)." .

In BK point of view, term BK, PBK, Shiv_Vamshi braahman kulbhooshan, Shiv_Vamshi Prajapita Brahmakumar& Kumari, etc. all are same. Some are short forms, some are longer forms, that is all.

759)According to PBKs- names of both Prajapita(P) and Brahma(B) should be mentioned explicitly. Hence they hijacked name PBK for themselves.

760)But, PBKs do not include name either Shiva(S) or Shankar(S) in their title PBK. So- both are absent in their title.

761)PBKs may claim Prajapita is Shankar, but Murli point clearly says- Shankar cannot be called as Prajapita.

762)Moreover, Shiva totally is absent in their title PBK, is it not?

763)So- the so-called PBKs may criticize BKs as half caste, but they now - inadvertently imply- they are not at all born spiritually, because they have no connection with Shiva (according to their own logic).

764)Now, when the connection of the foundation Shiva is not present in their title- their other title - P(Prajapita) or B(Brahma) are meaning-less (in their own view). Hence they have not got spiritual birth at all.
[Because it is their argument that all these names should be present in the title name itself.
So- in manipulating the knowledge and criticizing BKs, PBKs fell into their own pit even more deeply.]