Murli points on Ram

[andrey]

Dear brother shivsena,

I don't know how far for you the Murlis from the Murli khand 2 hold credibility, if they do or for those for which they do, here is some quote from 22.03.99 (pg 107 from the book). Of course the easiest way is to say thes are made up, but it this could be verified with some copy of the same Murli with the Bk, anyway for your own interpretations there is no way to verify. You don't accept any living authority other than your own self. I will not translate it, because I am not very good in Hindi and English.

"Baap baithkar sab atmaon ko samjhate hain. Sharir bhi Yaad parta to atma bhi Yaad parti he. Sharir bigar atma ko nehin Yaad kiya ja sakta...pahle unka naam-ruup samne ata hai....pehle sharir ko Yaad karne se phir atma Yaad ati hai.. pehle sharir Yaad aega kyonki sharir bari chiiz hai na. phir atma jo suksham bahut chotti hai, voh Yaad aegi."

if you read the whole Murli, it is mentioned also about whether we should remember in Paramdham or in the body, that he has come in the body there is no service for him there in Paramdham etc. and also matters on the same topic, some of which quoted elsewhere in this forum also. Anyway where in the Vanis it is said "Akaar mein nirakaar ko Yaad karo?

[shivsena]

Dear andrey Bhai.

I hold all the Murlis of BKs and PBKs in highest regard, whether khand 1 or 2 or xeroxed, and i am aware of the point which you have quoted; but my problem is that i see the knowledge as a whole and not in one or two isolated Murli points.
When i read contradictory Murli points, then i feel that it is my duty to share it with my brothers and if some queries are not solved then i get restless and when i am not progressing in understanding the knowledge, then i am raising the queries on this forum; that is why such forums created for...IS IT NOT ??

I fully agree that ''without the body, soul cannot be remembered'' as per the Murli point. Now my problem is that Murli also says: "deh sahit deh ke sab sambandh ko bhool, apne ko atma samaj mujh EK ko Yaad karo, toh mein sab pap se tumhe mukt karoonga"
[ meaning: ''forget your body and your bodily relations and remember me as a soul, then i will liberate you from all sins'' ]. Now this point says that we have to forget our body and all bodily relations, so my dillemma is : when we have to forget our own body and remember ShivBaba, then why should we emerge some other body and try to remember bindi ShivBaba in that body !!!!!!!!... this is what confuses me...this method of rememberence is followed by BKs and PBKs both and there is no result for last so many decades...so i came to the conclusion that during the shooting period there can be no accurate method of rememberence and this period is only for study of Murlis and only when personified God ShivBaba comes then the subject of rememberence will start.

I am not forcing my views on anybody and if PBKs feel so, then i am very sorry for it; My queries are genuine and not directed to pull down anybody; my sole aim is to share my views and try to understand to understand the Godly knowledge in totality by healthy discussion of Murli points and their interpretation on this forum. I am as much in dark as other PBKs and my queries are directed to PBKs only, as i feel BKs will not and cannot understand my point of view as they believe only in one Chariot(which is no more present), so i never express my views on bk section. I can understand your feelings that my views do hurt the PBKs most times, when i try to contra-dict the advance knowledge, but my intention is solely to understand the knowledge in Murlis and my inner urge forces me to point out the ambiguities of advance knowledge repeatedly, as it has been said in Vanis: ''if you do not wake up your humjins(brothers) then they will blame you in the end''. So please do not understand me otherwise.

shivsena.

[andrey]

It is said that we have to forget all bodily relations but we don't have any bodily relation with the body that is the Chariot. Remebrance is through the mind and mind is not part of the body.

From one side you say you are in the dark as are all the PBKs, but you cannot know about all the PBKs. Anyway how can you awake your brothers if you are yourself asleep.

[shivsena]

From one side you say you are in the dark as are all the PBKs, but you cannot know about all the PBKs. Anyway how can you awake your Brothers if you are yourself asleep.

I am in the dark as far as truth is concerned. I do not know what is the absolute truth. But i know one thing for sure that God ShivBaba and his sacchi Gita, which will bring transformation of BKs and PBKs, has yet to come in future and at present PBKs are hearing Krishna ki jhooti Gita. This is a 100% certainity and this is where i differ from my bk and pbk brothers and this is what i wish to convey to them through this forum.
[it has been said in Vanis "asatya ko asatya siddh karo toh satya pratyaksha ho jaaega''-meaning: ''just prove what is untruth, then truth will reveal itself.'']

shivsena.

[arjun]

so my dillemma is : when we have to forget our own body and remember ShivBaba, then why should we emerge some other body and try to remember bindi ShivBaba in that body !!!!!!!!... this is what confuses me

If no 'human body' is required to remember Shiv, why did you upload the picture of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit to show the method of remembrance being followed by PBKs and by you on this forum a few months ago? (if I remember correctly).

I am not forcing my views on anybody and if PBKs feel so, then i am very sorry for it; My queries are genuine and not directed to pull down anybody;

You are trying to be as innocent as a nursery child while giving the above statement, but in each and every post you try to pull down the PBKs by telling them in every sentence that the advanced knowledge is completely false. Do you really mean to be as innocent as you are projecting yourself to be?

[shivsena]

You are trying to be as innocent as a nursery child while giving the above statement, but in each and every post you try to pull down the PBKs by telling them in every sentence that the advanced knowledge is completely false. Do you really mean to be as innocent as you are projecting yourself to be?

Dear arjun Bhai.

I feel that i am doing my duty of waking up the PBKs to the fact that advance knowledge is Krishna ki jhooti Gita, while you feel that i am pulling down the PBKs. May i know who is going to judge ??? Are you in a position to judge, one who does the same thing to BKs as i am doing to the PBKs. You keep on hammering the BKs that ''Dada Lekhraj is not prajapita'' and i keep on hammering the PBKs that ''Ram is not prajapita'' and ''advance knowledge is Krishna ki jhooti Gita''. We are both in the same boat: Either we both are innocent or we both are projecting ourselves to be.

shivsena.

[shivsena]

Dear arjun Bhai and nivi behan.

Murli 23-2-01 says "Bap ko mahakaal bhi kahete hain. Kaalon ka kaal bap tumko kaal par jeet pahenate hain, arthat kaal kabhi khata nahin." [ meaning: Father is called mahakaal ie. one who makes his children win over death and gives a boon of immortality. ]

So who is this Mahakaal Father who is going to make his children win over death and grant immortality ??? Is it bindishivbaba who has come in 1937, who could not grant immortality to the Chariot Dada Lekhraj and any bk.... or is it Bindi ShivBaba through Baba dixit who has still not granted the immortality boon to any pbk.... or will it be 100% nirakari stage Ramshivbaba in future who will grant the immortality boon to anyone who recognises and acknowledges HIM as personified ShivBaba !!!!!!! ???????

Let each bk and pbk give it a serious thought and decide himself.

shivsena.

[nivi]

shivsena wrote:
I am in the dark as far as truth is concerned. I do not know what is the absolute truth. But i know one thing for sure that God ShivBaba and his sacchi Gita, which will bring transformation of BKs and PBKs, has yet to come in future and at present PBKs are hearing Krishna ki jhooti Gita. This is a 100% certainity and this is where i differ from my BK and PBK Brothers and this is what i wish to convey to them through this forum.

Is there anything in this world that is absolute truth..Does truth not change "with time"? The only thing that is constant here is "change"..So how can this Gyan be absolute..

[new knowledge]

Is there anything in this world that is absolute truth..

Welcome sister nivi_k. This is my first response to your post.
1) Absolute Truth does exist. It's the zone of God, His attributes, His divine activities & loveful relation of God with Rudra souls. In other words, Paramdham is the zone of the Absolute Truth.
2) But the Absolute Truth cannot be perceived as anything in this world. Nothing in this world is Absolute Truth as this world is the domain of Maya. Everything in this world drama & also the world drama (as a whole) is illusionary & subject to the Final Dissolution (महाप्रलय). This world drama is like Unlimited Dream; but the Absolute Truth is Eternal & beyond to the Mayavi world drama. This does not mean that the Absolute Truth (Paramdham) is beyond the physical or geometrical boundaries of this world. How could the illusionary world have a concrete boundary? Is there any concrete/physical boundary between the illusionary world in our dream & the world of our everyday life? When we wake up from a dream, our consciousness is automatically open to the world of everyday life; but this does not mean that our consciousness has crossed the concrete/physical boundary of dream & entered into the concrete zone of the world of our everyday life. Similarly, when a soul is wake up from the Unlimited Dream of this illusionary world drama, its consciousness is widely open to the Absolute Truth. There is no question of physical transformation of a soul from the Mayavi world to the zone of the Absolute Truth (Paramdham).
3) The Absolute Truth is One & Unified. At the level of the Absolute Truth, all the logical or concrete boundaries of differentation get merged or get disappeared. The Absolute Trute cannot be differentiated, classified os stratified in any hierarchical order like incorporeal, subtle & corporeal. Due to the illusionary spectacles of Maya, the One & Unified Truth is viewed as multipal, diversified, numberwise or stratified into various stratas like the incorporeal world, the Subtle Region & the corporeal world.

Does truth not change "with time"? The only thing that is constant here is "change"..So how can this Gyan be absolute..

Truth does not change with time; it is absolute. But Gyan changes with time & it is relative. Gyan is not Truth; but it is the gate-way to Truth.

[nivi]

Dear New knowledge,

Thanks for the warm welcome!! You seem to have wrote a lot but nothing much to the point of what i had asked..By the way I have not came across those points you have mentioned in any of the Murli's i have read. Where are you getting your information- your source?? Are you just writing things from what you have heard and read somewhere, or your own experience. The chatinay Paramdham that Baba talks about in the Murli is also of this world.
So again what is "absolute truth" in this world that we live in?

[shivsena]

So again what is "absolute truth" in this world that we live in?[/color]

Dear nivi behan.

There is no absolute truth in the world we live in today.
The bk and pbk knowledge are just philosophies(not truth) which are helping us to find the absolute truth, which is going to reveal itself in the near future.["Teri gat-mat TU hi jaane aur na jaane koi"]
shivsena.

[new knowledge]

1) Is Absolute Truth a temporary & time-dependent fact which gets created just during the short-term period of the Auspicious Confluence Age & gets faded or desolves after the completion of the Auspicious Confluence Age & does the 100% Absolute Truth not exist during the broad drama?
2) Or, is it that the 100% Absolute Truth exists during the whole Kalpa including broad drama as well as the Auspicious Confluence Aged drama; but that it gets revealed only during the Auspicious Confluence Age & we are not aware to the Absolute Truth during the broad drama?
3) If the Absolute Truth exists only during the Auspicious Confluence Age, what happens to it during the broad drama? Does the Absolute Truth partially converts into falseness when the Copper Age starts? Is not the 100% Absolute Truth eternal? If it is not eternal, then what is eternal?
4) And, if the Absolute Truth is eternal which also exists (as a whole, not partially) during the broad drama, why.....why is not there any chance of spiritual upliftment of any soul during the broad drama & why have we to wait untill the Auspicious Confluence Age comes, for our upliftment?

[shivsena]

Dear brother.

Good logical questioning:
The answer to all 4 queries is that absolute truth(called God-Brahman in scriptures) remains for eternity on this earth, but it is eclipsed by God's own creation ie Maya(primordial mother nature) which compels the souls and matter to pass through the 3 stages of sato-rajo-tamo, and when the world becomes utterly degraded, then the supreme being reveals Himself(acts as a catalyst) to create the new world and divinises the souls/nature to last for another 5000 years (ad infinitum) and in the process He Himself remains unchanged.(eternal)

shivsena.

[mbbhat]

SM 15-10-77(2):- Vaise to bachchiyon ko nishchay hai ki hum nar se Narayan nari se lakshmi banenge. Fail naheen honge jo kshatriy bane. Ram fail huvaa, 33 marks se kum marks miley to chandravamshi may chalaa gayaa. Aise to sooryavamshi bhee tretaa may chandravamshi gharaane may aate hain. Us samay LN SeetaaRam ko raajy dete hain.Parantu vah(LN) bhee to tretaa may aate hain na. Rajvade kul may janm lete rahte hain. Parantu phir SeetaRam naam chalaa aataa hai. LN naam khalaas hogaa.

= Children have faith that we will become Narayan from man and Lakshmi from woman. (We) will not fail to become kshatriy. Ram FAILED, got marks less than 33. So he became chandravamshi.In one way (not exact transaltion)even Suryavamshi also come in chandravamshi dynasty. ...

1)Baba says Ram got less than 33 marks. Usually marks are given at the end of examination. So does not this imply that Ram is the soul that fails at the end of Kalpa.


2)]Aise to [/size]sooryavamshi bhee tretaa may chandravamshi gharaane may aate hain= In one way [/size](not exact transaltion)even Suryavamshi also come in chandravamshi dynasty.:- Does not this imply that Ram's soul does not get seat in sun dynasty in Satyug?

[nivi]

The Murli point about Ram, and Ram like souls failure was for the beginning part, not the end. Ram does pass with honors in the end and establishes his kingdom based on truth. It's always sung "Ram Rajey" not ' Krishna/Narayan rajey ' etc.. It's also at the moment of death it is said to remember the name of "RAAM" so the soul can rest in peace.. "Raam naam satay hai.."