Race from 7 billion to 108.

[shivsena]

Then it is a matter of how do we interpret. Who is Ravan, who is Ram, you may say you are the community of Ram since you listen to the Murli, PBKs say we are community of Ram since we follow the direct directions, BKs say PBKs are Ravan's community since they follow a bodily guru. Here there could be variety, but at least we could agree with the main definition.

My view is simple: Those(PBKs) who view Ram as Ravan, no 1 patit kami kanta(contrary to what the Murli says) will be proved to be Ravan-sampradaya, while those(PBKs) who see Ram's incorporeal stage + shiv combined as Ramshivbaba will be Ram sampradaya. Let us wait and watch who is right.

It is said in Murlis "jaise dhristi vaisi shristi" and it is said in Bhakti "jaisi jaki bhavna vaisi prabhu murat dekhi" (meaning ''as your thoughts, so your vision of God''); So those who believe Ram is Ravan will have visions of Ravan and those who believe Ram is personified ShivBaba will be face to face with personified God. This is what i believe.

shivsena.

[arjun]

My view is simple: Those(PBKs) who view Ram as Ravan, no 1 patit kami kanta(contrary to what the Murli says) will be proved to be Ravan-sampradaya, while those(PBKs) who see Ram's incorporeal stage + Shiv combined as Ramshivbaba will be Ram sampradaya. Let us wait and watch who is right.

Those who view Ram as Ravan or no.1 sinful lustful thorn are not PBKs at all. They belong to the Ravan community.

[shivsena]

Those who view Ram as Ravan or no.1 sinful lustful thorn are not PBKs at all. They belong to the Ravan community.

You mean to say that there are 2 groups in PBKs : one group believes that Ram is Ravan and what does the other group believe ???

shivsena.

[andrey]

PBKs are those who follow the directions. The direction is to see Shiv in shav. those who do not follow are not at all PBKs, it is not a matter of a separate group.

[shivsena]

Those who view Ram as Ravan or no.1 sinful lustful thorn are not PBKs at all. They belong to the Ravan community.

Advance knowledge teaches that ''Ram is Ravan and Krishna is kansa" (which is never said in Murlis), so which group believes the above and which group does not believe in the teachings of advance knowledge.
The question here is of belief and not whether anyone is following Shrimat or directions; no one is a true pbk at present since no one is following Shrimat 100%.

shivsena.

[andrey]

Advanced knowledge also teahces that Ram is Narayan, it depends on which part do we catch, the positive or the negative.

[arjun]

You mean to say that there are 2 groups in PBKs : one group believes that Ram is Ravan and what does the other group believe ???

As far as I know all PBKs see the incorporeal Ram through the corporeal Ram. They don't see Ram as Ravan. But they do have the knowledge that every soul becomes sinful at the end of this drama and are purified by the incorporeal Ram through the corporeal Ram.

If you wish to see Ram as Ravan you are free to do so. ;-)

[shivsena]

But they do have The Knowledge that every soul becomes sinful at the end of this drama and are purified by the incorporeal Ram through the corporeal Ram.
If you wish to see Ram as Ravan you are free to do so. ;-)

This is again a teaching of advance knowledge to see incorporeal Ram(nirakar Ram) through corporeal Ram(Sakar Ram); this has never been mentioned in any Murli.

I always see Ram as Bhagwan Ramshivbaba; it is the PBKs who preach and see Ram as Ravan.

shivsena.

[andrey]

I believe for the correct way of remembrance to occur we need complete knowledge, so for this mabe like it is in the outside world we need at least two points like coordinates for to identify the concrete place. So maybe it is nessesary to know the Supreme Soul that enters, but also the soul in which he enters.

[shivsena]

I believe for the correct way of remembrance to occur we need complete knowledge, .

I fully agree with you that in order to have accurate rememberence we need to have full knowledge of the soul--Supreme Soul--and world drama. [but not the hadh ka drama but behad ka drama]. Gyan and Yoga are two different subjects but the basis of everything is Gyan first and Yoga next; without complete Gyan there can be no accurate Yoga, so it is useless to say that remember yourself as a soul and then remember God, unless we know the personified form of soul and Supreme Soul.

shivsena.

[arjun]

Om Shanti. Just to remind everyone about brother shivsena's beliefs as I have gathered from the archive of bkinfo forum.
http://www.brahmakumaris.info/forum/vie ... nuary+2010

....i have been disclosing openly that Krishna's soul through Veerendra Dev Dixit will be revealed as prajapita to the BK and PBK world after 2010 (when 40 years of his angelic life in Subtle Region is over)?

I couldn't search his original declarations about the revelation of Krishna's soul through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit in January, 2010, but even the above quote, at that time meant somewhere around 2010. May be he has revised it to anytime after 2010, which could mean 2014, 2018, 2026 or 2036.

[shivsena]

Om Shanti. Just to remind everyone about Brother shivsena's beliefs as I have gathered from the archive of bkinfo forum.
http://www.brahmakumaris.info/forum/vie ... nuary+2010
i have been disclosing openly that Krishna's soul through Veerendra Dev Dixit will be revealed as prajapita to the BK and PBK world after 2010 (when 40 years of his angelic life in Subtle Region is over)?
I couldn't search his original declarations about the revelation of Krishna's soul through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit in January, 2010, but even the above quote, at that time meant somewhere around 2010. May be he has revised it to anytime after 2010, which could mean 2014, 2018, 2026 or 2036.

Just to remind everyone, that arjun Bhai has an obsession for dates and not for what i have been saying in essence. ; i have a sackfull of rice to share but it is a pity that arjunbhai can see only some few kankad(pellets) in it.

Arjun Bhai, You can search for a lifetime and you will not get a single post which refers to jan 2010 as deadline; i have always said that after 2010 jan, the PBKs will start realising that advance knowledge is Krishna ki jhooti Gita.

If you had utilised your time in studying the Murlis and churning on the jewels of knowledge, instead of useless translation of Bhakti marg Gita(advance knowledge) from Hindi into English, then you would have benefitted more.
shivsena.

[arjun]

Dear Shivsena Bhai,
Om Shanti. Like in your above post you keep hammering PBKs everyday (even many times a day) with your statement that the entire advanced knowledge is false, but PBKs don't get angry. But when one of your own statement was reproduced from another website after many many months just for the sake of record and as a reminder, you got so angry that you have made personal remarks against me. Anyway, it is upto the readers to decide who is true and who is false.

Secondly, how can you say that the translations of advanced knowledge that I produce here have been done by me? I am only posting whatever I have received through emails from ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit). Nobody's name is mentioned as the translator of these Murlis/discussions in the emails.

Anyway, you can go on producing any number of sacks of rice. I am content with the essence of knowledge that the Father has given.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

[shivsena]

Dear Shivsena Bhai,
Om Shanti. Like in your above post you keep hammering PBKs everyday (even many times a day) with your statement that the entire advanced knowledge is false, but PBKs don't get angry. But when one of your own statement was reproduced from another website after many many months just for the sake of record and as a reminder, you got so angry that you have made personal remarks against me. Anyway, it is upto the readers to decide who is true and who is false.

Dear arjun Bhai.
If saying anything in self-defence is anger, then i do not know what your definition of real anger is :prize: !!!!
It was not a remark against you, but a brotherly advice from one brother to another.

Secondly, how can you say that the translations of advanced knowledge that I produce here have been done by me? I am only posting whatever I have received through emails from ShivBaba (through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit). Nobody's name is mentioned as the translator of these Murlis/discussions in the emails.

I felt that since you are a professional translator, most of the translations have been done by you; so i wrote the statement; But it was not specifically for you but for anyone who is doing the job of translating. When i came to advance knowledge, i was also directed by Baba Dixit to translate the Advance Literature and cds and put on the net, but i could not do it as i thought that it was lot of effort and a waste of time. If anyone is inclined for clear understanding of knowledge, then he should have the desire to learn Hindi and listen/read Hindi versions, as the English translations sometimes cannot convey the real meaning of Murli statements.

shivsena.

[bansy]

If anyone is inclined for clear understanding of knowledge, then he should have the desire to learn Hindi and listen/read Hindi versions, as the English translations sometimes cannot convey the real meaning of Murli statements.

If the words of God can be bound by the a worldy language, then He is not the REAL TRUE GOD, only (in this case) another Hindi God. Maybe the Ocean in "Ocean of Knowledge" means the Indian Ocean, rather than the Oceans of the World ? Not World Benefactor (capital WB), but world(=India) benefactor (small wb) ? Are there capital letters in the Hindi language ?? How is Master and master translated in Hindi ?

Well, one can say it is the work duty of the children to translate it into all the languages, but since no child in pure, then it means no one can ever translate the Murlis, and thus the entire BK/PBK is simply another Hindi God ?

Again, the sun shines and the rain falls and the wind blows and there is no need for any language or knowledge to understand or express that.