Shankar's Part ?

[mbbhat]

Arjun soul wrote:- He does come in this world, but is always in tapasya (remembrance). This is why it has been said that you cannot ask Shankar

arjun soul wrote:- Another childish arguement. God never slaps anyone. It is either the soul of Ram or Krishna which have karmic accounts with BKs or PBKs since last 63 births who may slap them.

- here- http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2440

Are not these contradictory?- the one who is always in remembrance, whose consciousness does not come down this world, but can slap?
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Or do PBKs say- it is soul of brahma Baba who slapped and not soul of Mr. Dixit?

[arjun]

Or do PBKs say- it is soul of Brahma Baba who slapped and not soul of Mr. Dixit?

Yes. But I don't think BKs will believe this. So, better put a full stop.

[mbbhat]

Yes. But I don't think BKs will believe this. So, better put a full stop.

Wonderful.

1)How did PBKs come to this conclusion? did Shiva spoke so or soul of Dixit spoke so or soul of Dada Lekhraj himself spoke so through body of dixit or did PBKs realized by inspiration or churning? Or is this conclusion of just Arjun soul and not all the PBKs?

2)OK, let us agree with arjun. But, then why soul of Brahma Baba is calm and not all furious when it is in Dadi Gulzar's body even while speaking some strong Avyakt Murli points?

3)And- PBKs believe DL is not strict, but VD is strict. then how can they justify that it is soul of DL slapped that sister? [Is this not once again contradictory?]

4) OK, let us still agree, that DL did the slapping. But, why could not the strict Father Prajapita could not bring down him under control?

[Or if PBKs believe soul of Dixit us always in remembrance and does nothing, then who is that one who does the operation of strictness what they claim? Is it Shiva who plays the role of strictness?*]

5) OK, if we think-no one can control soul of DL, then why did not this slapping incidents did not happen again and again?

* - If it is Shiva who plays role of strictness/Father through Dixit and it is Shiva who played role of love/mother through DL (till 1969), then why do they blame DL for not controlling the children?


Total contradictions, is it not?

[fluffy bunny]

What were the actual events that led up to the incident?

What is the nature of the individual who was hit and the history? I would say that is more important to know rather than to discuss psychic theories.


The BK world is a faith based world in which *anything* can be true and *nothing* can be proven. Who knows ... one could equally just say, "oh, the sister was possessed by an evil spirit and so Lekhraj Kirpalani had to act quick and sharply" ... and there would be no way to prove or disprove it.

[arjun]

Wonderful.

There is nothing wonderful in that. When ShivBaba gave unlimited love through Brahma Baba, some children took undue advantage of the same and gave him sorrow. So, that karmic account is being settled now when the soul of Brahma enters in Shankar. Brahma Baba is said to play the role of Dharmaraj.

What were the actual events that led up to the incident?

I am not aware of the incident. So, it is shivsena Bhai who can provide related information. But even he will have one sided version of the incident as he might not have interacted with the sister who was allegedly slapped by Baba Virendra Dev Dixit.

[mbbhat]

arjun wrote:
There is nothing wonderful in that. When ShivBaba gave unlimited love through Brahma Baba, some children took undue advantage of the same and gave him sorrow. So, that karmic account is being settled now when the soul of Brahma enters in Shankar. Brahma Baba is said to play the role of Dharmaraj.

So- do you think- in the above incident (slapping the Sister), DL played role of dharmaraj?

also- such incidents should have repeated considerable no. of times, is it not? why only once? Because many others have took undue advantage of him, is it not?

And it should happen even in BKWSU also, is it not?

[mbbhat]

No pbk is ready to reply to such simple query (at least to the first one)?

[arjun]

No PBK is ready to reply to such simple query (at least to the first one)?

Another proof of your childishness and ego. I have told you several times that I don't have enough time. If someone does not reply to your queries within a few hours you think as if we don't have answers. But when you vanish from this forum for weeks and months at a stretch you expect us to think you are very knowledgeable. Is it not double standards? Anyway, it is upto you to behave wisely or childishly.

So- do you think- in the above incident (slapping the Sister), DL played role of dharmaraj?

He was simply clearing his karmic account.

also- such incidents should have repeated considerable no. of times, is it not? why only once? Because many others have took undue advantage of him, is it not?

The karmic account with each soul is different and will be cleared in a different way. God or the souls of Ram and Krishna are not answerable to you for every action that they perform.

And it should happen even in BKWSU also, is it not?

There the soul of Dada Lekhraj is still playing the role of a mother through Dadi Gulzar. When his role of Dharmaraj begins, then the demoniac children will automatically come to know.

[mbbhat]

He was simply clearing his karmic account.

1)How does it clear?

I believe to clear karmic account, one should follow non violence. how can violence clear karmic account?

So- do you think- if a person had done bad to me, if I take revenge, then the karmic account is clearing? Does not that increase sin further?

2) Or do you think soul of brahma Baba is like lowkik people who have thirst to take revenge or has high dis satisfaction towards his such children and considers them as enemies?

3)If he did not play the role of dharmaraj here, then why did you mention the word dharmaraj there?

[mbbhat]

Another proof of your childishness and ego. I have told you several times that I don't have enough time. If someone does not reply to your queries within a few hours you think as if we don't have answers. But when you vanish from this forum for weeks and months at a stretch you expect us to think you are very knowledgeable. Is it not double standards? Anyway, it is upto you to behave wisely or childishly.

1)It was not few hours. Three and half days already left. . And I did not expect from you. Many other PBKs were online during that this period. Even they had not replied to this important question.

2)And you had once accused that why BKWSU had not been able answer a simple query about giving birth to nine lakh deities.

And I felt the above query is far simpler than what you had questioned. Because here, it was saying just yes or no (in the first question).

But- Since you had already been online and have replied to other posts in these three to four days,

And also had taken interest in replying to this slapping issue,

And before you had accused BKWSU that it had not given answer to your simple query, I wrote so.

3)You can accuse someone, but the other should not comment so on you, is that not your double standard? You can even say three and half days as "few hours"!

Anyhow, you may be right. It is good to know more about how PBKs judge the things.

[arjun]

.....

Om Shanti. :cool:

[mbbhat]

Thank you. Let us see whether reply comes from other PBKs.

[arjun]

So- do you think- if a person had done bad to me, if I take revenge, then the karmic account is clearing? Does not that increase sin further?

I never said that we have to take revenge to clear accounts. Such incidents (like that of slapping) happen spontaneously, not deliberately.

2) Or do you think soul of Brahma Baba is like lowkik people who have thirst to take revenge or has high dis satisfaction towards his such children and considers them as enemies?

I never said so. When a Father or elder beats or slaps a child, it does not necessarily mean that the parent is taking revenge on the child. It could also be to reform the child.

3)If he did not play the role of dharmaraj here, then why did you mention the word dharmaraj there?

I said he will play the role of Dharmaraj. I did not say that by slapping this particular person he played the role of Dharmaraj.

[arjun]

130
"नम्बरवार अवतार आते हैं, जो आकर अपना धर्म स्थापन करते हैं। पहला नम्बर अवतार है भगवान का। अब निराकार कैसे अवतार ले? बताते हैं मैंने इस चोले का आधार लिया है। यह अपने जन्मों को नहीं जानते। शरीर तो इनका है ना। गाया भी जाता है - आया देश पराये। और सब अपने देश, अपने शरीर में आते हैं। हाँ, धर्म स्थापक दूसरे के शरीर में आ सकते हैं, फिर उनका नाम होता है। पवित्र आत्मा आकर प्रवेश करेगी। जो पहली आत्मा है वह धर्म स्थापन नहीं करेगी, जो आत्मा प्रवेश करेगी वही स्थापना करेगी। सितम आदि पहले वाली आत्मा सहन करती है। जैसे क्राइस्ट की आत्मा आई वह तो सतोप्रधान थी, उनको कुछ सहन नहीं करना है। उनको तो पहले सतो में ही आना है। तो जो पहली आत्मा है, वह सहन करती है। दुःख तो आत्मा को ही होता है ना, जब शरीर के साथ है। धर्मराज भी शरीर धारण कराए सज़ा देंगे। आत्माओं को फील होता है कि हम सज़ा खा रहे हैं।" (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक १९.१२.०७, पृ.२)

"Numberwaar avatar aatey hain, jo aakar apnaa dharma sthaapan kartey hain. Pehla number avatar hai Bhagwaan ka. Ab niraakaar kaisey avatar ley? Bataatey hain mainey is choley ka aadhaar liya hai. Yah apney janmon ko nahee jaantey. Shareeer toh inka hai na. Gaya bhi jaataa hai – aaya desh paraaye. Aur sab apney desh, apney shareeer may aatey hain. Haan dharma sthaapak doosrey ke shareeer may aa saktey hain, fir unka naam hota hai. Pavitra aatma aakar pravesh karegi. Jo pehli aatma hai vah dharma sthaapan nahee karegi, jo aatma pravesh karegi vahee sthaapan karegi. Sitam aadi pehley vaali aatma sahan kartee hai. Jaisey Christ kee aatma aai vah toh satopradhaan thi, unko kuchch sahan nahee karnaa hai. Unko toh pehley sato may hee aana hai. Toh jo pehli aatma hai vah sahan kartee hai. Dukh toh aatma ko hee hota hai na, jab shareeer ke saath hai. Dharmaraj bhi shareeer dhaaran karaaye sazaa dengey. Aatmaon ko feel hota hai ki ham sazaa kha rahey hain." (Brahmakumariyon dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli, dinaank 19.12.07, pg 2)

“Numberwise incarnations come, who come and establish their religion. First number incarnation is of God. Well how can the incorporeal take incarnation? He says – I have taken the support of this costume/body. This one does not know about his births. The body belongs to this one, does it not? It is even sung – aaya desh paraaye (He came to the the alien country). All others (i.e. souls) come in their country, their body. Yes, the religious fathers can come in the body of others; then they get fame. The pure soul would come and enter. The already existent soul will not establish the religion; the soul that enters (from the Soul World) will establish. The already existent soul will suffer the tortures, etc. For example, when the soul of Christ came it was pure; it does not have to tolerate anything. It has to come in a pure stage initially. So, the already existent soul tolerates. It is the soul which experiences the pain, when it is with a body, does it not? Dharmaraj also will punish someone by making them assume a body. The souls feel that we are suffering punishments." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 19.12.07, pg 2 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

[mbbhat]

He was simply clearing his karmic account.

I never said that we have to take revenge to clear accounts. Such incidents (like that of slapping) happen spontaneously, not deliberately.

This is what i aksed. How, when DL slapped some other person, his karmic account gets cleared? his sin should increase, is it not?

First of all, if he has no control in himself (hence he slapped ), that itself implies he has enough sin in his account. now, when he slapped, his sin should increase, is it not?

And, PBKs believe srimath is organization level and dharna is individual level. They say- dharna of DL is the highest. now, how such a soul can slap? Or do they believe dharna of DL is also cowardice?

I never said so. When a Father or elder beats or slaps a child, it does not necessarily mean that the parent is taking revenge on the child. It could also be to reform the child.

Then what is the meaning of he was simply clearing his karmic account? Or if you think it is to reform, then how can it be spontaneously? Are not these contradicting each other/

I said he will play the role of Dharmaraj. I did not say that by slapping this particular person he played the role of Dharmaraj.

OK. But, how that term has relation with this incident? why did it come in your mind first? [Or are you changing your views now due to being unable to answer my question?]