BK-PBK.Info - for BKs & PBKs or BKWSU & AIVV Supporters, Children, Students & Disciples
Discussion of ShivBaba's Knowledge & 'Advanced Knowledge', suited for EVERYONE associated with 'PrajaPita Brahma Kumaris Spiritual Godly World University-cum-Hospital'.
DEDICATED to Ex-PBKs.
For those who wish to narrate their experiences about the BKs and PBK 'Advanced Knowledge' and post views about their NEW beliefs.
suryavanshi wrote:At the end of every Murli, it is said that " Mithe-mithe roohaani bacchon prati maat pitaa baapdada kaa Yaad pyar aur good morning. Roohani Baap ki roohani bacchon ko namaste."Since this forum is already discussing about BapDada, who are/is referred to as Maat - Pitaa and BapDada here?
Are Maat Pita and BapDada the same souls?
Dear suryavanshi.
You have asked very relevant queries.
The above underlined statement at the end of each Murli is not so easy to understand and the whole secret of knowledge lies in understanding correctly what it means and to whom it is spoken to.
I feel that the above statement is spoken only to 108 souls, who will become meetha-sweet when they are in ruhani stage in future when the real morning(brahma ka din starts) and then they will receive all the love and affection from Mat-pita and BapDada combined(meaning no. 1 shivshakti)....at present the above statement does not apply to any bk or pbk (who have neither become meetha nor are in ruhani stage)
Dear shivsenabhai and PBK brothers and sisters, the term 'Sakar BapDada' is mentioned in Murli khand : part 1 (Page 411) not as a part of Murli, but as the part of the title 'Pyare Sakar BapDada ne Avyakt hone ke puraa ek maas pahle, raatri class mein....'.
Who is this Sakar BapDada and how he differs from Avyakt BapDada?
Does Sakar BapDada become Avyakt BapDada?
Avaykt Vani 25-12-69 says: "Aaj BapDada vishwa-maharajan banane ki padayee padate hain."
[meaning: "today BapDada is teaching you to make you world emperor"]
If BapDada is teaching the children to make them world emperor through avaykt Vanis in mt abu,... then what teaching is done by Baba Dixit in Kampil (by giving them advance knowledge)....this is a logical fall-out of the above Vani point.
Can any pbk please give his views about the above.
shivsena.
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Avaykt Vani 25-12-69 says: "Aaj BapDada vishwa-maharajan banane ki padayee padate hain."
[meaning: "today BapDada is teaching you to make you world emperor"]
If BapDada is teaching the children to make them world emperor through avaykt Vanis in mt abu,... then what teaching is done by Baba Dixit in Kampil (by giving them Advanced Knowledge)....this is a logical fall-out of the above Vani point.
It depends upon the individual as to whom he sees as BapDada - the part being played at Mt. Abu or the part being played at Kampil?
arjun wrote:It depends upon the individual as to whom he sees as BapDada - the part being played at Mt. Abu or the part being played at Kampil?
Yes--that is how numbers will be declared.
BKs(9,00,000) will interpret ''BapDada'' as shiv+Krishna.
PBKs(16,000) will interpret ''BapDada'' as Ram+Krishna.
And 108 will interpret it completely different from BKs and PBKs.
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It depends upon the individual as to whom he sees as BapDada - the part being played at Mt. Abu or the part being played at Kampil?
Dear Arjun
If it depends on the individual, how can we ever speak about the universal truth?
The quated Avyakt Vani "Avaykt Vani 25-12-69 says: "Aaj BapDada vishwa-maharajan banane ki padayee padate hain."
[meaning: "today BapDada is teaching you to make you world emperor"]"
was narrated in 1969. There was no trace of part in Kampil at that time.
The truth which I understand is something unchangable cannot change and depend on iduvidual views. The Truth is something that unifies all, not divides. The Truth cannot have various colours or shades or versions. For me, this is a complete absurd what is going on in the Brahmin world at this moment. Where there is the truth, there is unity. The Truth allows to speak clearly; yes means yes, no means no; where there is the Truth there is no ambiguity and no controversies; there is no arguing. And what is the situation in the Brahmin world after 70 or more years of narrating the Truth?
Anu wrote:
If it depends on the individual, how can we ever speak about the universal truth?
Dear Anu,
I feel that Arjun is actually saying that there is no Bap or Dada in the bk family for them to connect their intellect with. Am i right, Arjun?
The quated Avyakt Vani "Avaykt Vani 25-12-69 says: "Aaj BapDada vishwa-maharajan banane ki padayee padate hain."
[meaning: "today BapDada is teaching you to make you world emperor"]"
was narrated in 1969. There was no trace of part in Kampil at that time.
Neither anyone recognized the corporeal Chariot of BapDada at that time at Mt. Abu. There was few who were impressed with Baba Dixit's churnings but none recognized the appointed Chariot of God, so how is it possible for BapDada to make us world emperors when there is no recognition of the corporeal form of BapDada.
The truth which I understand is something unchangable cannot change and depend on iduvidual views. The Truth is something that unifies all, not divides. The Truth cannot have various colours or shades or versions. For me, this is a complete absurd what is going on in the Brahmin world at this moment. Where there is the truth, there is unity. The Truth allows to speak clearly; yes means yes, no means no; where there is the Truth there is no ambiguity and no controversies; there is no arguing. And what is the situation in the Brahmin world after 70 or more years of narrating the Truth?
What you have mentioned is very true. Truth unites and never divides. So if you assume that there is 100% truth in AK or Shiva is speaking AK, then why are PBKs leaving. If Shiva is speaking AK wholly, then all will come running to AIVV and never leave.
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
pbkindiana wrote:Dear Anu,
I feel that Arjun is actually saying that there is no Bap or Dada in the BK family for them to connect their intellect with. Am i right, Arjun?
What I meant to say was that for a PBK even the Avyakt Vanis are applicable basically to the PBKs as they consider BapDada to be (ShivBap+Ram Bap+Dada,i.e.Lekhraj). But for the BKs BapDada means the incorporeal Father Shiv+Brahma Baba's soul.
anu wrote:If it depends on the individual, how can we ever speak about the universal truth?
Something can be a universal truth only when all the souls of the world accept it. Is there any philosophy in the world which is accepted by all the souls of the world? Advance knowledge is a truth for PBKs, but it will become a universal truth only when it is accepted by all the human souls of the world.
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Sharing the results of research in the story of the Yagya collected with co-operation with western students.
What I aim at is to look at things logically. I believe that by aswering to questions by asking questions as you both do, doesn't explain issues. This kind of rethoric brings about more confusion, in my view. In my experience in AK, I have noticed that my PBK brothers have become real masters in answering to questions by asking questions (i meanwhen they give answers to some other questions) :laugh: or they hold on twisted aspects of the issue (like Arjuna did in the previous post). :laugh:
Never mind.
Dear Arjuna - the AK is being taught as the final truth; it has been already declared as the final truth in AIVV. I have heard it at least few times in clarifications. So, I shared my understading of views on what the truth is. The truth is unconditial in my view and should be spoken in an unconditional language and be above all. The truth should be based on unshakable evidence. The truth is never created, because it is eternal, no matter people like it or not. There are few universal philosophies that people agree with in the entire world.
For instance: All men are mortal. Whatever was born will definitely die. Things created undergo destruction. Time is passing by and never comes back.
I would take a risk and say that people of the world accept these philosophies, no matter they like it or not. Can you notice what kind of language they are spoken in? Neutral, non-personal, absolute, non-partial, non-judgemental. In contrary to this, the majority of people I know from AK and BK (including myself), speak in a partial and judgmental way and they do not have evidence for the majority of facts they are talking about. They repeat. There is a strong division in "WE" and "THEY". "WE" is better than "THEY"; "WE" has privileges and so on and so on. Even classes narrated in AK often are spoken in a strong emotional and sometimes way. For example: when I heard the statement "all those ones in the world, all those animals have to be bitten to death. They only deserve this, because they will never understand and they will never improve; they will have to die in pains so that WE CAN GO TO PARADISE". I will be honest and reveal you something - I heard this statement and asked myself, "Gosh, does God the Father himself, the one who presents himself as the Father of all, the Father who thinks that any child can improve if not today than tomorrow, does God Himself say this?" "Is it the final truth that will unify all the people of the world, no matter what they are and how they are now?"
Do you understand what I mean by saying this above?
And by the way, my previous post i mentioned the point quated by someone earlier "Avaykt Vani 25-12-69 says: "Aaj BapDada vishwa-maharajan banane ki padayee padate hain. "today BapDada is teaching you to make you world emperor"] which was narrated in 1969 and I reminded you of the fact that there were no traces of AK at that time.
None of you, neither Arjuna nor indie refered to this. Both of you referred to something else. Arjuna already earlier posted: "It depends upon the individual as to whom he sees as BapDada - the part being played at Mt. Abu or the part being played at Kampil?" ---- as a commentary to that poit and pbk indie asked the question: "Neither anyone recognized the corporeal Chariot of BapDada at that time at Mt. Abu. There was few who were impressed with Baba Dixit's churnings but none recognized the appointed Chariot of God, so how is it possible for BapDada to make us world emperors when there is no recognition of the corporeal form of BapDada." I appreciate both sharing. Nevertheless, I feel that they do not refer to the gist of the matter, but somehow "walk" around it.
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
anu wrote:And by the way, my previous post i mentioned the point quated by someone earlier "Avaykt Vani 25-12-69 says: "Aaj BapDada vishwa-maharajan banane ki padayee padate hain. "today BapDada is teaching you to make you world emperor"] which was narrated in 1969 and I reminded you of the fact that there were no traces of AK at that time.
Similarly, there was no trace of Advance Party or Shankar or heaven when Brahma Baba was alive. But its knowledge was given in Sakar Murlis, wasn't it?
Similarly, the knowledge of becoming world emperor was given in Avyakt Vani dated 1969 but it was meant for the souls which are to become world emperor and world empress even though they might not have been physically present in Mount Abu at that time. BapDada emerges those souls and speaks.
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Sharing the results of research in the story of the Yagya collected with co-operation with western students.
The context of Sakar Murlis and Avyakt Vani differ a lot. I think that the context is very important. In the Sakar Murli the Narrator doesn't say "today, ..." when teachings about Shankar or AK. The context of the information about the topics you mentioned is different, in my view. When in the quated AV, the Narrator says quite clearly "aaj" = today. It means the day when the AV was narrated.
If you are searching for truth in this forum, then you are mistaken. It is just views of the members on how they assimilate or understand this Godly knowledge. The ultimate truth has not been revealed yet and when truth is finally revealed, then there will not be any debating or discussion of knowledge. There will only be acceptance and putting full force in remembrance and service.
the Narrator says quite clearly "aaj" = today. It means the day when the AV was narrated.
To all bk-pbk brothers.
The word "aaj" in any Murli or Vani is not to be taken literally.....it has to be interpreted in behad ka sense. The word "aaj'' refers to the whole Sangamyug period, ever since Mama Saraswati become avaykt farishta and has started narrating the Murlis and Vanis.
....it has been made clear by BapDada in the first few Vanis, that Av. Vanis will be understood only by those who are in avaykt stage(constant churning and manthan stage) ....so it means that whenever any Vani or Murli is revised officially any time in future or read by any soul, it will be understood only by 108 king souls only, while the praja(BKs-PBKs) will just hear it or read it without understanding as to who is BapDada and to whom he is talking....in that particular Vani, BapDada clearly says that HE teaches souls how to become vishwa-maharajan and it has to be understood intellectually that the teaching is not limited to one particular day, but the whole Sangamyug is a teaching session for BapDada and learning session for every potential king soul, irrespective of the time they(108) come into knowledge... this is my view.
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
anu wrote:The context of Sakar Murlis and Avyakt Vani differ a lot. I think that the context is very important. In the Sakar Murli the Narrator doesn't say "today, ..." when teachings about Shankar or AK. The context of the information about the topics you mentioned is different, in my view. When in the quated AV, the Narrator says quite clearly "aaj" = today. It means the day when the AV was narrated.
In your previous posts you were speaking about universal truth applicable to all aspects of time, but now you are interpreting 'aaj' from the Avyakt Vani quote as 'today', i.e. on the date of narration of the Avykta Vani. Are you not seeing the 'unlimited versions' of BapDada in a limited sense?
