Murli points on Ram

[RudraPutra]

Can you please define the following terms in Murlis;
Who is Rambap.

Corporeal Father of human souls----Ram's soul

Who is Ramshivbaba.

Shiv+Corporeal Father

Who is sarva ka sadgati Dataa Ram.

Dataa is always corporeal and SHIV doesn't give or take anything....sarva ka sadgati Dataa should be SADGURU and SADGURU is corporeal media of SHIV,hence again it is the same personality

Who is paramatma Ram.

i think i have cleared this earlier too,param=supreme and atma=soul so the one who plays the supreme role among the souls is the PARAMATMA Ram and again it is the same corporeal media of SHIV

Who is Dilaram Bap(as mentioned in Vanis)

WHO has dil is DILARAM BAAP....he is none other than the same corporeal Father,SHIV cannot be DILARAM BAAP....

....These are the different adjectives or titles allotted to Sakar or Corporeal Father....i don't know why you are trying to differ these titles?

Who is tretawala Ram.

...since Ram's soul becomes Narayan and SEETA's soul becomes Lakshmi both these Lakshmi and Narayan remains as a couple for 21 births of Satyug(8 birth) and Tretayug(12 birth) and most important one,Sangamyug(1 birth) and each birth they alternatively changes the gender...for example in the second birth of Lakshmi Narayan(which is actually the first birth of Satyug after Sangamyug) Lakshmi's soul gets the male body while Narayan's soul gets the female body and again in their third birth Lakshmi's soul gets female body while Narayan' soul gets male body.....till Tretayug comes at that time Narayan's soul gets the female body while Seeta's soul gets the male body on their first birth in Tretayug and Tretayug is yug of Ram and Ram is male so in Tretayug it must be Lakshmi's soul who should be Ram(tretayugi) and Narayan's soul who should be SEETA(tretayugi)....but for Sangamyug there is only one Ram and that is the corporeal media of SHIV....

And which Ram underwent the process of failure and when.

....both Ram(Sangamyugi as well as tretayugi) underwent the process of failure at the time of the beginning of Yagya....

[pbkindiana]

shivsena wrote:

Also Murli states that " Krishna ke 84 janam ke anth ke bhi anth mein BAP aate hain'' but it is never stated in Murlis that "Ram ke 84 janam ke anth ke bhi anth mein ShivBaba aate hain".So Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be Ram's soul as it has never been said in Murlis that "Ram takes full 84 births" (it is always said that "Krishna takes full 84 births")

Also it has never been said or indicated in any Murli that Shiv+Krishna enter Ram(Veerendra Dev Dixit) after Lekhraj Kirpalani leaves the body in 1969.

So there are many Murli points which clearly point out that Veerendra Dev Dixit is not Ram's soul but the 84th birth of Krishna's soul. This leads to a very logical next question : "who then is Lekhraj Kirpalani ???...was he not Krishna's soul in the first place !!!!

Shivsena, read this very important Murli quote below.

MU. 9.3.88 -- "Everything is based on correcting Gita. Because of amending Gita the personality of GOD has vanished."

This Murli quote indicates that one can never find a direct Murli quote regarding Ram as amendment had been done, so that Brahma alias Krishna can be conferred with all the titles which in fact is entitled to Ram.

I don't understand why this conspiracy of amending these Godly versions or is it preordained so that two groups of brahmins will be segregated. I just cannot get it -- what is their ulterior motive of amending Shiva's versions. Is it affluence, greedy for power or those ego-centric souls who had amended the Murlis, fear that they will lose their so-called status.

It is extremely disheartening that there are some demons who go to the extent of amending God's versions which acts as 'food' for the souls who thirst who Godly knowledge.

indie.

[shivsena]

Who is paramatma Ram.
i think i have cleared this earlier too,param=supreme and atma=soul so the one who plays the supreme role among the souls is the PARAMATMA Ram and again it is the same corporeal media of Shiv

If Ram is paramatma, then how come he is prajapita and Bharat too.
This is what i cannot accept.
(Ram=paramatma=prajapita=Bharat)
This equation does not make any sense to me.

Can you please clarify further.
shivsena.

[shivsena]

And which Ram underwent the process of failure and when.

....both Ram(Sangamyugi as well as tretayugi) underwent the process of failure at the time of the beginning of Yagya....

Which are the two Ram's present in the beginning and how did they fail when the study had not even begun for first 10 years( Murlis started only frrom karachi in 1947).
Can you clarify further.
shivsena.

[RudraPutra]

If Ram is paramatma, then how come he is prajapita and Bharat too.
This is what i cannot accept.
(Ram=paramatma=prajapita=Bharat)
This equation does not make any sense to me.
Can you please clarify further.

1)
(a)PARAMATMA=PARAM(supreme)+ATMA(soul)----------one who plays the supreme part among all the human souls is PARAMATMA....
(b)PRAJAPITA=PRAJA(subjects)+PITA(Father)------------one who is Father of all subjects of this world i.e Father of all human souls of this world is PRAJAPITA....
(c)Bharat=permanent Chariot of SHIV
......now the answer is that Bharat,the permanent Chariot of SHIV, is Father of all souls and hence he is PRAJAPITA who plays the supreme role among the whole human souls and hence PARMATMA too.....now still if it is not acceptable then i cannot help you,sorry....

2)....we PBKs have tried to clarify these concepts many times that too along with Murli points...even i have answered you on the same topic in other forum too.....so i don't think its wise enough to talk on such topics again and again henceforth....you can check the earlier threads instead....

3)one more thing what i have observed is that when you ask particular question you don't stick to it,you go on jumping on different topics and after many of the questions are answered you make your way to ask the initial question once again.....i am sorry brother not only me but each and every individual have their own precious time and it is good to see those members shedding their time for discussion here....do you think they come here to have such type of circular discussions,which has no satisfactory end? although it has been answered,you invoke the same question once again.....plzzz don't do so...its an humble request.....we are here to bring some thing new from the discussion but if you move to and fro again and again in concepts(which has been tried to clear) then there would be no output.....i should say....

[RudraPutra]

Which are the two Ram's present in the beginning and how did they fail when the study had not even begun for first 10 years( Murlis started only frrom karachi in 1947).

"Ram-SEETA ko bhi pehle Lakshmi Narayan ka daas daasi ban na pade,kyonki Lakshmi Narayan full pass hue.Vah fail hua."----------MU 21.5.73
("Ram-Seeta also has to be servant of Lakshmi Narayan because Lakshmi Narayan fully passed.They failed")

....there are many such Murli points which prove that both Ram and Seeta's soul failed....and i have cleared that these both are the souls playing a part of Ram that is one of Sangamyug and other of Tretayug....
yes Murli started from 1947 but what about "PIU ki Vani"....so you cannot say that study had not begun.....between 1936-1947 they got failed.....for first 10 years of Yagya....

[pbkindiana]

Rudraputra wrote:
"Ram-SEETA ko bhi pehle Lakshmi Narayan ka daas daasi ban na pade,kyonki Lakshmi Narayan full pass hue.Vah fail hua."----------MU 21.5.73
("Ram-Seeta also has to be servant of Lakshmi Narayan because Lakshmi Narayan fully passed.They failed")

....there are many such Murli points which prove that both Ram and Seeta's soul failed....and i have cleared that these both are the souls playing a part of Ram that is one of Sangamyug and other of Tretayug....
yes Murli started from 1947 but what about "PIU ki Vani"....so you cannot say that study had not begun.....between 1936-1947 they got failed.....for first 10 years of Yagya....

Dear Rudraputra Bhai,

1. Did not the PIU KI Vani help Ram-Seeta to pass?

2. Who spoke the PIU KI Vani --- is it Supreme Father Shiva or Prajapita?

3. Why is it referred as PIU KI Vani when Shiva was in Prajapita in the beginning and why is it referred as Murlis when Shiva was in Brahma Dada Lekraj.

indie.

[RudraPutra]

1. Did not the PIU KI Vani help Ram-Seeta to pass?

....no Vani can help us till we get the exact knowledge....even printed Murli had not helped Didi,Dadis or any senior bk sisters as they are still leaving their bodies.....why to go there,it even did not prove fruitful for brahma also.....pass and fail depends in the clearance of concepts.....hence SHIV has to come in his permanent Chariot to explain those things.....without knowing the truth even diamonds are considered as stones.....Vani and meaning of Vani has lot of differences....

2. Who spoke the PIU KI Vani --- is it Supreme Father Shiva or Prajapita?

3. Why is it referred as PIU KI Vani when Shiva was in Prajapita in the beginning and why is it referred as Murlis when Shiva was in Brahma Dada Lekraj.

.....at this stage i cannot directly answer you my view only for the reason that i don't want to confuse anyone with my thoughts.....once i get it rectified by BABA i can dare to keep my views...till then sorry....

yes of course ARJUN Bhai might answer you accordingly or atleast may try to keep your views in front of ShivBaba.....you can request him....

[arjun]

2. Who spoke the PIU KI Vani --- is it Supreme Father Shiva or Prajapita?

I think it was the Supreme Father Shiv.

3. Why is it referred as PIU KI Vani when Shiva was in Prajapita in the beginning and why is it referred as Murlis when Shiva was in Brahma Dada Lekraj.

May be because the personality of Prajapita (whatever was the lokik name) must have addressed as 'Piu' by the BKs of that time. So, the versions spoken by Shiv through Piu came to be known as 'Piu ki Vani'.

[shivsena]

Dear Rudraputra Bhai,
1. Did not the PIU KI Vani help Ram-Seeta to pass?
2. Who spoke the PIU KI Vani --- is it Supreme Father Shiva or Prajapita?
3. Why is it referred as PIU KI Vani when Shiva was in Prajapita in the beginning and why is it referred as Murlis when Shiva was in Brahma Dada Lekraj.
indie.

Dear indiana.
Very good queries about ''piu ki Vani'', but is there any evidence of any piu ki Vani on paper or were they recorded when spoken or is there any mention of it in any Murli....or all this is just hear-say from senior bk Dadis ???

Why do we have to believe in suni-sunayee baatein without any concrete proof.

shivsena.

[sachkhand]

Aum Shanti.

Lots of confusion has been created by Veerendra Dev Dixit and PBKs regarding Ram.

There is only one Soul in the whole universe which does not have It's own physical form. Only GodFather Shiv does not have His own Physical or Subtle Personality. All other souls have physical and/or subtle form. GodFather Shiv has said that only His Soul is called by name, all other souls are called by the name of their physical or subtle personality.

Then, what is the name of The Soul of GodFather? GodFather Himself has said that His name is Shiv. But He has said that although He, The Supreme Soul, is called upon by many names in this world His actual name is Shiv. I have come across few names in the Murlis like Somanath, Amarnath, Babulnath, Ram, Rudra, Bholenath.
Murli date 8.1.85: " You are on Ram's Shrimat. Call Ram call Shiv, have kept many names."
Here it is clearly stated that GodFather Supreme Soul Shiv Himself is also called as Ram. Now the question is that are we giving this name Ram to a physical personality or calling The Soul by that name. Please notice the difference. When we call upon GodFather Supreme Soul, we directly call Him by name like Shiv, Ram, Rudra, Somanath, Babulnath, etc., But when we call upon any human soul we say soul of Rajesh, soul of Harry, soul of Kamala, soul of Susan, etc.. Although body may be of either sex when we identify any other soul we consider or identify the physical or subtle personality first and then through that personality we identify the soul.

You may argue that GodFather Supreme Soul when is in Paramdham then He is called by name Shiv, but all other names are given only after He enters into a Physical or Corporeal form. GodFather Supreme Soul Shiv meaning Auspicious is His quality. He is in action or not in action, He is Auspicious i.e., Shiv. And all other names says about His Divine Deeds. O.K.

So with the name Ram is associated the Divine Deed of Patit-Pavan i.e., making impure into Pure ones and the Divine Deed of Sadgatidata i.e., giving Mukti or/and Jeevanmukti to all. O.K.

But is GodFather Supreme Soul Himself capable of doing these Divine Deeds or does He need help of other soul/souls for His work. Obviously , as He does not have His own body, He needs body/bodies of some human soul/souls. Is that enough or does He require certain quality in the helping soul/souls. Obviously, the soul/souls of those human beings should have the quality of co-operation with The GodFather Supreme Soul Shiv inorder to complete His Divine Work. 100% co-operation is possible only when there is 100% surrendering of their body, mind and intellect. This is the test based on which we get marks in all the four subjects namely Gyan, Yoga, Dharna, Seva.

The soul who has 100% surrendered his/her body, mind and intellect will attain 100% knowledge (i.e.,Trikaaldarshi), will be in 100% rememberance of The GodFather Shiv, will 100% imbibe all the Divine powers and qualities of GodFather Shiv and as a result serve humanity and this world 100%. Now of all the Human beings there will be only One who will do best amongst all Godly students.And GodFather Supreme Soul Shiv will select this One as His Chariot to play the part of Patit-Pavan, Sadgatidata Ram. O.K. This Personality will become The Embodiment of The Incorporeal GodFather Supreme Soul Soul Shiv. He can be called as Ram ShivBaba. O.K.
Murli date 20.2.83: "At present you souls follow the Shrimat of Shri Shri Ram ShivBaba."
But you know that when the above Murli point was being spoken at that time all Brahmakumar/ Kumaris used to follow the direction given through BrahmaBaba. It means that his personality is Ram-ShivBaba.

You may argue that the Divne Deed of Patit-Pavan and Sadgatidata was not completed then or was not at all done, and that the above Murli point refers to a future personality. O.K. Who is this personality?

Now, at this juncture Veerendra Dev Dixit says that the soul of some children who had left Yagya in the beginning will come again in the Yagya. The soul of Tretayugi Ram who had failed earlier, who is the soul of Veerendra Dev Dixit in the previous birth, will do purusharth as Veerendra Dev Dixit at present and stand first.

Now it is said in Murlis that Sangamyug or Prushottam Sangamyug is the period to create our destiny for the whole Kalpa. This is not the period of taking service from others but to serve others. One who best serves humanity according to Shrimat will create best destiny for himself/ herself in Satyug and Tretayug and based on these two yugas will be the destiny of dwapuryug and Kaliyug. So Purushottam Sangamyug is not the period of experiencing worldly pleasures, but the period of experiencing Divine Bliss in rememberance of GodFather Shiv and doing service of Humanity according to Shrimat. The characters of GodFather depicted as Ram, Krishna, Mahadev in Hindu religious literature are different aspects of the parts played by GodFather and His children in Purushottam Sangamyug which did highest possible service to Humanity.

What is the result of this? Kaliyug changes into Satyug and the children create numberwise destiny for themselves in Satyug and Tretayug. GodFather Supreme Soul Shiv is the only one who does Nishkam Karma because He do not have His own physical body. All other human souls based on their Purusharth in Purushottam Sangamyug will create numberwise destiny for themselves for rest of the Kalpa.

Now let us see what is the destiny of the human soul Ram (which according to Veerendra Dev Dixit is himself).
Murli date 21.5.73: "Ram also has to become servant of Lakshmi Narayan. Because Lakshmi Narayan passed fully. He failed. Therefore he is called kshatriya."

Murli date: 29.7.73: "when there is Suryavanshi kingdom then Ram-Sita have to remain servant-maid. Afterwards when there is kingdom of Chandravanshi, then they take their kingdom."

The question which arises is that if the soul of Veerendra Dev Dixit, as per his statements, does highest service of Humanity by completely surrendering himself to GodFather Shiv, then how is it that he has such a low destiny in the whole Satyug and has to wait till Tretayug to attain the status of kingship. It is out of my understanding.

Take for example, if a student studies hard in his school, he will get good marks. Vice-Versa, if a student gets low marks it means he has not studied well. Examiner of these schools may become corrupt and give good marks to a dull student or purposely give low marks to a hard working student. But in Purushottam Sangamyug our Teacher and Examiner is GodFather Himself. So there is no chance of corruption. What we Sow, so will we Reap.
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

[sachkhand]

AUM Shanti.

Murli date 21.5.73: "Ram also has to become servant of Lakshmi Narayan. Because Lakshmi Narayan passed fully. He failed. Therefore he is called kshatriya."

Murli date: 29.7.73: "when there is Suryavanshi kingdom then Ram-Sita have to remain servant-maid. Afterwards when there is kingdom of Chandravanshi, then they take their kingdom."

In the above Murli points it is said that in the Suryavanshi Kingdom, and it includes the 1st birth also when in Sangamyg itself Suryavanshis and Chandravanshis get their inheritence.
So, who are the souls who failed and become servvant-maid and later in Tretayug become Ram and Sita and the souls passed and become Lakshmi Narayan directly in their first birth? They cannot be the same.
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

[sachkhand]

AUM Shanti.
Also Virendra Dev Dixit has said that Ram becomes Ravan. It means that Ram and Ravan cannot co-exist at the same time in the drama. But it is said in Murli that in Sangamyug both Ram and Ravan are present.
Murli date 12.2.75, pg.1: "Ram akshar kyon kahate hain? kyonki Ravan Rajya hai na. To unki bheint main Ram rajya kaha jata hai. Ram hai ParamPita ParamAtma. Jisko Ishwar bhi kahate hain, Bhagwan bhi kahate hain. Asli naam unka Shiv hai."
Murli date 24.4.85, page3: "Ram gaya Ravan gayo ... unka bhi arth kitna sahaj hai. Jaroor Sangamyug hoga jabki Ram ka aur Ravan ka parivaar hai."
So Who is This Ram and who is the Ravan in Sangamyug?
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

[arjun]

The soul of Tretayugi Ram who had failed earlier, who is the soul of Veerendra Dev Dixit in the previous birth, will do purusharth as Veerendra Dev Dixit at present and stand first.

PBKs believe that the soul of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit becomes Sita in the actual Silver Age, but is believed to be the Confluence-Aged (Sangamyugi) Ram.

[sachkhand]

AUM Shanti.
Dear Arjun,
you have quoted me above as "The soul of Tretayugi Ram who had failed earlier, who is the soul of Veerendra Dev Dixit in the previous birth, will do purusharth as Veerendra Dev Dixit at present and stand first."
I do not believe this. I have just written what AIVV members say. I would like to make this clear.

And regarding your answer above, there is nowhere in Murlis that Sangamyugi Ram or Narayan or ShivBaba or Prajapita becomes First Sita of Tretayug. It is said that both Ram and Sita become das dasi of Lakshmi Narayan.
Thanks.
Sanjeev.