Cult-like aspects of BKWSU

for ex-Brahma Kumaris, to discuss matters related to their experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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john
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Post by john »

ex-l wrote:I have had some personal experience with "Light Trance" hypnotism that I am happy to share/relate. But I would appreciate a short summary or breakdown of what you are talking about in relationship to BK Raja Yoga.
As regards BKs. I do not feel that they are a brain washing cult. My personal gripe is, if they have changed/revised the Murlis in their possession, then some of the general concepts can be altered and in that sense i think it can be said that in some ways they are brainwashing the involved BKs. Whether this is indeed happening and if so, a deliberate ploy, I don't know.

As regards BK Raja Yoga; yes, I see there are similarities with techniques of self hypnotism, But I don't see how anyone is hypnotised by BKs. I am not sure, but is the implication that hypnotism takes place through giving drishti?

As regards any book ... I haven't actually mentioned any on this thread. I have been to a past life regression session (not on me) and at the moment I am flicking through a book on past life regression by Dr Brian Weiss called 'Many lives, many masters'. One of the other interesting things I've read about is the Indian rope trick, where mass hypnotism is suggested as to how this is possible.

Basically a crowd of people had gathered in the street to see the trick and they were all convinced that a boy had climbed the rope, disappeared and then re-appeared in the basket on the ground. Photos were taken at the time that showed that the boy hadn't moved through out the whole session ...
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mr green
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Post by mr green »

I can relate to eromain's comments. I personally don't like being called soul by BKs as it is a loaded statement and not neccesarily truthful ... It is quite possible that we are not souls or theta or atmas, or anything else.

Also in bk teaching in the old pictures it plainly says soul+body=human being ... Seeing as we do have bodies it is clear we are human beings and not ... souls ... come on BKs at least get accurate with Gyan :lol:
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Post by andrey »

It is not possible that someone, say brahma Baba, sat down and said, "OK, I am fed up with this monkey-donkey business, why work hard, better make up a religio-sectical cult. People will get attracted by the fine philosophy and will surrender their wealth. This way in future Dadi Prakashmani and Dadi Janki will enjoy prosperity".

I believe in the pure intention. No one goes like this. Courses, seminars are not made up like this to attract people to do them harm. Even those who do wicked acts know from inside what do they do and don't like it because they know what will be the result. It's just that sometimes it is hard to leave what one likes to leave, but cannot. Sometimes one is weak to fight the more powerful falsehood. That's why one true thruth has to come.

Or does anyone think well in advance, "OK we will cut their meat and sleep and they will come in our hands. Then maybe we will make them explode bombs in the underground?". No, being vegetarian is a good habit that even a meat eater can realise. Waking up early in the morning is a good habit that even one who sleeps late knows. Similarly, this sexual abuse that eromain has mentioned, it may have terrified him but how many much more times it has terrified the ones from the BK. Did they too like these things to happen? That's why the more we hold ourselves responsible the better.

I have had the thought with this Knowledge that, even if it is a lie, it is so powerful and so well made that i would like to be a part of it. Now I think, OK, if this Baba is not the true Baba, what will i be left with having belived in a lie, but looking arround i don't see more truthful Baba. Yes, i agree that calling others a soul and "Om Shanti" just like ritual is odd. However, being in a soul-conscious stage whilst in a body, maintaining such a high consciousness that has so many beneficial results, observing others as souls and reminding others about the soul whilst being a human being (a soul in a body) is good. One can be convinced in the existence of the soul by one's own experience.
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sparkal
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brainwash with sticks

Post by sparkal »

If the BKs have brainwashed me, they have not done a very good job of it. I would surely not think, say and do half the things I do/have done.

Also, If the BKs do brainwash, it is certainly not to sexually abuse or beat people with sticks, that is something else again. Indeed, where is the brainwashing when we need it?

I know what you mean though.
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bansy
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Post by bansy »

Pardon me for butting in ... but I was having fits watching the latest Wallace and Gromit movie The Curse of the Were-Rabbit about brainwashing the rabbits not to eat vegetables, using another of Wallace's brainwave contraptions, whereby he chants :
  • "Veg Bad"
    "Veg bad".
    "Say No to Cabbage, Cauliflower and Carrots".
So replace Rabbits with BKs; Veg with meat ; Cabbage, Cauliflower and Carrots with Garlic, Chilis and Onions.

Sorry if you haven't seen this funny movie but I just had to slip it in this thread. :D

Ignore me.
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mr green
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Post by mr green »

bansy wrote:"Veg Bad"
"Veg bad".
"Say No to Cabbage, Cauliflower and Carrots".

So replace Rabbits with BKs; Veg with meat ; Cabbage, Cauliflower and Carrots with Garlic, Chilis and Onions.
hey!!! i haven't seen that yet!!! :lol:
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fluffy bunny
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Steve Hassan on Cults

Post by fluffy bunny »

I really want to come back to you on the hypnotism issue because I think it is one of the most central or important to exploring BK practise. I am not in one of the "either/or" camps. I am of the "and something else ... " opinion. I think there is a psychic element to hypnotism and certainly a psychic element to BK Raja Yoga practise; which is not discussed. And I certainly see similarities between hypnotism and some of BK Raja Yoga. That does not mean BK Raja Yoga is not God. It just means that if it is God, God and his BK "instruments" also use hypnotism too. It is not "only hypnotism". I agree there is something else but we do not know what. We 'may' be hypnotized to believe it is something else from what it actually is.

But, as a provocation, read down this list of identifying elements of a cult and tell me how many apply to the BKWSU? Look out for "Phobia indoctrination".

Note, I do not state that this excludes Shiva from being 'a' or even 'the' God, nor even the BKWSU from being the "only" way. It just appears that BK practice does fit 95% or more of these. My own opinion is that "human monkeys" NEED cults. I am realistically pro-cults. I think religious cults are mostly better, more interesting and more pleasant than, say; sports cults, beer cults, money cults or power cults. I just think they ought to be honest, transparent and carry a clear Government Health Warning. I raised another topic on this; If not this cult, which cult?.

Sheep need Shepherds and to live in flocks.

From Steve Hassan's Freedom of Mind website : freedomofmind.com
The BITE Mind Control Model

from chapter two of Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves (© 2000 by Steven Hassan; Freedom of Mind Press)

There are four basic components that can be used in understanding destructive mind control. Please read through these components in the following outline and describe which aspects pertain to this group.

I. Behavior Control

1. Regulation of individual's physical reality
  • a. Where, how and with whom the member lives and associates with
    b. What clothes, colors, hairstyles the person wears
    c. What food the person eats, drinks, adopts, and rejects
    d. How much sleep the person is able to have
    e. Financial dependence
    f. Little or no time spent on leisure, entertainment, vacations
2. Major time commitment required for indoctrination sessions and group rituals
3. Need to ask permission for major decisions
4. Need to report thoughts, feelings and activities to superiors
5. Rewards and punishments (behavior modification techniques- positive and negative).
6. Individualism discouraged; group think prevails
7. Rigid rules and regulations
8. Need for obedience and dependency.

II. Information Control

1. Use of deception
  • a. Deliberately holding back information
    b. Distorting information to make it acceptable
    c. Outright lying
2. Access to non-cult sources of information minimized or discouraged
  • a. Books, articles, newspapers, magazines, TV, radio
    b. Critical information
    c. Former members
    d. Keep members so busy they don't have time to think
3. Compartmentalization of information; Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
  • a. Information is not freely accessible
    b. Information varies at different levels and missions within pyramid
    c. Leadership decides who "needs to know" what
4. Spying on other members is encouraged
  • a. Pairing up with "buddy" system to monitor and control
    b. Reporting deviant thoughts, feelings, and actions to leadership
5. Extensive use of cult generated information and propaganda
  • a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audio tapes, videotapes, etc.
    b. Misquotations, statements taken out of context from non-cult sources
6. Unethical use of confession
  • a. Information about "sins" used to abolish identity boundaries
    b. Past "sins" used to manipulate and control; no forgiveness or absolution
III. Thought Control

1. Need to internalize the group's doctrine as "Truth"
  • a. Map = Reality
    b. Black and White thinking
    c. Good vs. evil
    d. Us vs. them (inside vs. outside)
2. Adopt "loaded" language (characterized by "thought-terminating clichés"). Words are the tools we use to think with. These "special" words constrict rather than expand understanding. They function to reduce complexities of experience into trite, platitudinous "buzz words".

3. Only "good" and "proper" thoughts are encouraged.

4. Thought-stopping techniques (to shut down "reality testing" by stopping "negative" thoughts and allowing only "good" thoughts); rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism.
  • a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
    b. Chanting
    c. Meditating
    d. Praying
    e. Speaking in "tongues"
    f. Singing or humming
    5. No critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy seen as legitimate
    6. No alternative belief systems viewed as legitimate, good, or useful
IV. Emotional Control

1. Manipulate and narrow the range of a person's feelings.
2. Make the person feel like if there are ever any problems it is always their fault, never the leader's or the group's.
3. Excessive use of guilt
  • a. Identity guilt
  • 1. Who you are (not living up to your potential)
    2. Your family
    3. Your past
    4. Your affiliations
    5. Your thoughts, feelings, actions
    6. Social guilt
    7. Historical guilt
4. Excessive use of fear
  • a. Fear of thinking independently
    b. Fear of the "outside" world
    c. Fear of enemies
    d. Fear of losing one's "salvation"
    e. Fear of leaving the group or being shunned by group
    f. Fear of disapproval
5. Extremes of emotional highs and lows.

6. Ritual and often public confession of "sins".

7. Phobia indoctrination: programming of irrational fears of ever leaving the group or even questioning the leader's authority. The person under mind control cannot visualize a positive, fulfilled future without being in the group.
  • a. No happiness or fulfillment "outside"of the group
    b. Terrible consequences will take place if you leave: "hell"; "demon possession"; "incurable diseases"; "accidents"; "suicide"; "insanity"; "10,000 reincarnations"; etc.
    c. Shunning of leave takers. Fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family.
    d. Never a legitimate reason to leave. From the group's perspective, people who leave are: "weak"; "undisciplined"; "unspiritual"; "worldly"; "brainwashed by family, counselors"; seduced by money, sex, rock and roll.
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john
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Family Action Information Resource

Post by john »

ex-l wrote:"....From Steve Hassan's Freedom of Mind website...."
I note that the religious reviewers of his (Steve Hassan's) book are only from the Christian and Jewish faith. He is of the Jewish faith. From the strong / devout Christians I have met, the attitude is that salvation is only through christ, there is absolutely no other way.
I can see 2 things;
  • 1. Those of such faith would be keen to put down other groups as destructive cults and use loaded language, such as 'brainwashing'
    2. Some of them (cults) do indeed come across as crazy, especially as you read about mass suicides etc ...
Are we seeing a rational view of smaller 'different belief' groups or a witch hunt by organised religion.

Mr Hassan puts up very good arguments and I think the USA has been affected more by the cult phenomena, than say the UK and maybe even the rest of the world.

It's interesting that he also talks about benign cults
Steve Hassan wrote:"... Benign cult groups are any group of people who have a set of beliefs and rituals that are non-mainstream. As long as people are freely able to choose to join with full disclosure of the group's doctrine and practices and can choose to disaffiliate without fear or harassment, then it doesn't fall under the behavioral / psychological destructive cult category..."
Wonder what the membership number requirement is for a group to go from a cult to a religion in status ...

Does anyone know legally/technically what makes one group a cult and another a religion?
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Post by celticgyan »

I have heard the Catholic Church being referred to as a cult. I suppose to answer the question we should ask another one - 'Who is a freedom fighter and who is a terrorist'? answer - the terrorist is the one who loses the battle or is in the minority.

Similarly a cult is a religion which is not yet mainstream or is seen as taking people away from the 'True' religion! Sure there is a re-programming within the BKs - how else can you transform. You can leave at any time though - you are not a prisoner and the BKs won't track you down and drag you back in!

C.
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fluffy bunny
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Re: Family Action Information Resource

Post by fluffy bunny »

John wrote:Does anyone know legally/technically what makes one group a cult and another a religion?
I don't think there is one. There is a proper academic definition of "cult" that is removed from the sensationalistic definition, otherwise it is just down to a "what team do you support?" level of debate. Yes, elements of Catholicism are cultish and based on very ancient cultish behaviour. May be the different between a cult and a religion is that in a cult individuals stop, or are stopped from, thinking.

To over use a tired old metaphor, "... you can take the individual out of the BKWSU but can you take the BKWSU out of the individual?"

For me, it is not the obvious that defines the BKWSU, e.g. the cult or non-cult issue. To ask another question,
  • • if asked, "is the BKWSU a cult or a NGO?" what would you answer?
My answer is that there is a cult, a Dadi Worship Cult, within the New Religious Movement that the BKWSU is. But at the core of the Dadi Worship Cult, there is something like Satanism going on. This mediumistic spirit worship thing.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am not saying that "Satanism" is a bad thing ... ;-) ... I just think it is spirit worship. No one is actually holding "the spirit" down to accountability any more, questioning it, reasoning with it. They are just in awe, blown away by the effect of it and giving over their minds to it. For them, it has become God completely. We do not know if it is.

In the BKWSU, we do not even know if it is Shiva. It is more likely just to be Lekhraj Kirpalani / BB. And, in my unhumble opinion, if it is just Lekhraj Kirpalani / BB then they are in trouble.
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Post by sparkal »

If the term "cult" has come from CULTure? then perhaps there is nothing wrong as such with another culture, or, simply being different. The term cult has been demonised by the media, but it need not always mean "dodgy". Brahmin culture suggests a cult therefore.
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mr green
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Post by mr green »

The difference I was always quoted by the BKs themselves was that in a cult you are made or influenced to do things against your own will, whereas a religion encourages free will.
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Another cult-related post

Post by joel »

ex-l wrote:... I think we ought to have a 12 Step plan for Brahmakumari Sister-in-charges and the model for a group is a lot better than the rules of a BK center. Anyone care to attempt to re-write them for BK/ex-BKs?
1. We admitted we were powerless over our religious addiction, having lost our sense of self, and given our moral compass and authority over our life decisions to other--supposedly enlightened--religious guides.

I got this far, and realized that I am not prepared to craft a master plan for coping with such issues, that people concened with leaving and surviving abusive cult environments have also done much more that I could.

Here is a good reference:

The Cult Survivor's Handbook, by Nori J. Muster

I find the introductory chapter especially interesting since it deals specifically (though briefly) with cults and the author's cult experiences. The other chapters introduce various kinds of therapies and self-help methods.

I include a brief quote about cult attributes that seems to characterize the BK organization.

========================
If you suspect that you are (or were) in contact with a cult, ask yourself some serious questions about the group:
  • Do you have to change who you are to fit in, please others?
  • Do they set up a duality of "us and them" and tell you that people outside the group are bad, less important?
  • Do they treat "outsiders" badly or talk behind their backs?
  • Do they treat members badly?
  • Do they give a false impression to the public?
  • Do they predict that society is on the brink of destruction?
  • Do they say that they have all the answers and you would be lost without their help?
  • Do they request excessive donations of your time and money?
Never allow any group to ruin your life. Cult leaders are often sociopathic and power hungry. They teach their followers that the outside world is evil; that the cult offers the only salvation. This creates an atmosphere of isolation, leading to hopelessness.

Cult recruiters target people with low self-esteem, presenting the group as a loving surrogate family. Members are taught to do whatever the family asks. They must repress their individuality and work for the good of the group. New people may receive excellent treatment, but once they are established members, they may be exploited and abused. Demoralized, they change their personality to please authority figures and fit into the group.

Cult leaders preach that society is on the brink of destruction, then they isolate their members and control the flow of information to reinforce the party line. They manipulate members with guilt and fear. Cults portray themselves as benign and may hide undesirable aspects of their operation from the public and from members. Hence, the stereotype of the "blind" follower.

One of the most insidious things about my cult experience was that they told us we had to give up our previous "material" life and devote one hundred percent of our time and energy to the group. Some ISKCON gurus still preach this as the meaning of surrender. At ISKCON's request, I abandoned all my friends and family without thinking about how I may have hurt them or made them worry about me. When my book came out, parents of other cult members began to contact me for advice. Listening to their grief made me realize how my own family may have felt. Hopefully this book will help bring families back together, or at least help them understand each others' perspectives.

Although this book is written for people who are recovering from victimization in a cult, it can also help people who are still deciding whether to leave a difficult group situation. Some people may feel they are in a dysfunctional, cult-like business or family environment, so they may use this book to help them decide whether they need to make some changes.
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alladin
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sect exit counsellor

Post by alladin »

Hi, I found out, by reading an interesting article on cults, de-programming, brainwashing, etc ..., about this research center on sects: http://www.fecris.org/. I don't know if it has already been mentioned elsewhere on the forum. It has connections in many countries and texts on the site also are translated in few major languages.

The psychotherapist, in the interview, declared that these days the main danger lies in pseudo-religious New Age communities, not so much in Satanic Sects, although this "exit counsellor" and court expert dealt with many such cases for years.

I wouldn't mind translating and writing extracts of such an enlighting article on the forum. Would we need some permission in order to do that?
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