HOW 42 BIRTHS IN 1250 YEARS OF KALYUG(1250/42=29.76)??

[shivachild]

Would PBKs like to differentiate between basically karmaateet and advanced karmaateet stages?

it is never used the word 'advanced karmateet stage' in Murlis. it is only the 'karmateet stage' that has already been attained by soul of Krishna and Mama-jagdamba-Saraswati.


Avyakt Vani dated 01.09.1975 explains about 'karmateet stage' as follows:
Are all of you experiencing yourselves to be coming close to the karmateet(free of karmic bondage) stage? Do you know what the signs are of coming close to the karmateet stage? The sign of being close is to have equality. In which aspects?

• To come into sound, and to go beyond sound.
• To be a karma yogi in the corporeal form, and to go beyond the awareness of the corporeal and stabilise yourself in the incorporeal stage.
• To listen, and to become an embodiment of that.
• To churn knowledge, and to remain absorbed in that.
• To have a heart-to-heart conversation, and to stabilise in the stage of spirituality.
• To think and to put into practice: to use the physical organs, that is, to take support of the physical organs, and to go beyond the pull of the organs.
• To use the facilities provided by matter for one's own self, and, from time to time, to be independent of those same facilities.
• To see others, and to have connection with them, but to see and not see.
• To have a connection with others, but to remain as detached as a lotus flower.

To maintain equality in all these stages is known as being close to the karmateet stage.

[arjun]

Would PBKs like to differentiate between basically karmaateet and advanced karmaateet stages?

There is a saying - "Seeing is believing". So, you will understand the difference between the above terms only when you see ShivBaba's new part in practical.

Brahma Baba inculcated the basic knowledge given in the Murlis upto 1969, but much more deeper knowledge is being given as part of the advanced knowledge since 1976, inculcating which in practical life under the present circumstances is much more difficult. And efforts for this are being made by the current human medium of Shiv. Brahma Baba did not show that advanced level of inculcation in his personal life. Nor could he make others inculcate. For example, ShivBaba said it is not necessary to keep photographs, offer Bhog, tie rakhis, accept flowers, etc. But Brahma Baba could not inculcate such things in his life under the influence of attachment for his alokik children. And post 1969 he has been presiding over the large scale violation of Shrimat which has already been discussed on this forum several times. I can give examples, but I don't want to start the same arguements with you again.

[arjun]

it is never used the word 'advanced karmateet stage' in Murlis. it is only the 'karmateet stage' that has already been attained by soul of Krishna and Mama-jagdamba-Saraswati.

I agree that the words 'advanced karmaateet stage' has not been used in the Murlis. But you and other BKs have also forgotten the other words of ShivBaba in the Murlis that the Karmaateet stage will be attained only in the end when the war breaks out. So, it is obvious that as the studies progress from 1969 to 2036 the definition of karmaateet stage would also become deeper and wider.

[shivachild]

Avyakt Vani dated 18.01.2013 says,"Father Brahma wants each of his child to become complete, the same as himself."

Who is this Father Brahma who is complete?

[arjun]

It has been clarified several times that we have to follow the actions that Shiv performed through Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani) and we have to obey the words spoken by Shiv through Shankar. We don't have to follow Shankar as per Murlis. But that does not mean he will not be revealed as Prajapita Brahma (the complete Brahma) in the end. As per Murlis whomsoever's body Shiv enters is a Brahma.

[shivachild]

It has been clarified several times that we have to follow the actions that Shiv performed through Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani)

Dear Arjun,

Avyakt Vani dated 09.03.2013 says,"BapDada wants you to follow Father Brahma. Whenever you perform any action, check: "Did Father Brahma perform this action?"

So, Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani is Father Brahma as per this Murli statement. Do you agree this?

[arjun]

So, Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani is Father Brahma as per this Murli statement. Do you agree this?

He was a Father (titleholder of Prajapita Brahma) just for name sake.

[Roy]

Avyakt Vani dated 09.03.2013 says,"BapDada wants you to follow Father Brahma. Whenever you perform any action, check: "Did Father Brahma perform this action?"

"It is sung constantly to follow the mother (Brahma Baba Krishna in your actions - i.e. be very sweet and tolerant) and the Father (Prajapita-Ram), in becoming bodiless-incorporeal (whilst remaining in your corporeal body - an angel). You have to show the right path to every soul. Now it is your final 84th birth. You have the aim object of becoming a deity (Narayan, in this very birth - not the next one). By looking at the image of Krishna(Brahma Baba, after his death, in 1969), you cannot remember Me (in the form of the Father - the part or role played through the corporeal body of Prajapita Brahma aka Ram, from 1969). You must not take any support of any images. You have to even forget your own image-body; consider yourself as a soul. You are all beloved of One Father. Father(Shiv) says, keep remembering Me (in the body of Prajapita-Ram). Let your stage at the end be such that, you are going towards your Father(Ram ShivBaba or Shiv+Prajapita-Ram) leaving this old world (and thoughts of Brahma Baba Krishna's deceased form behind). Father makes you understand... Remember Me alone (in the form of the Father, through the especially appointed Chariot - Prajapita Brahma aka Shankar aka Ram)." [Mu 21.02.11]

"Do you think that we should also leave the body and become Avyakt (like Brahma Baba Krishna did, in 1968/9)? Do not follow in this matter. (The true) Father Brahma(Prajapita-Ram, after intensely studying the Murli for 5-6 years, from 1969/70) became Avyakt (i.e. renounced the corporeal world intellectually, whilst still in the body, in 1976) so that you could see the example of the (practical) Avyakt form, and follow easily." [Av 13.03.81]

[shivachild]

Avyakt Vani dated 18.01.1988 says,"Brahma is the only special soul whose part as a mother and a Father in a corporeal form is fixed in drama. The children remember the double form of the great soul who has a double part - but when you remember him, remember the elevated hope in the heart of Brahma the mother and Father, that everyone should become equal."

Who is this (ONLY) special soul whose part in drama as a mother and a Father is fixed in drama?
1)Brahma-Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani OR
2)PBKs 'Prajapita Brahma'-Ram OR
3)Avyakt Brahma- Om Radhey Mama

It is interesting to note that only one of the above option is true.

[arjun]

Q: Who is this (ONLY) special soul whose part in drama as a mother and a Father is fixed in drama?

A: Shiv through 'Prajapita Brahma'-Ram

[shivachild]

Q: Who is this (ONLY) special soul whose part in drama as a mother and a Father is fixed in drama?

A: Shiv through 'Prajapita Brahma'-Ram

Murli dated 04.01.2013 says,"This Mother and Father are combined. It is very difficult for human beings to understand this. Nevertheless, this is the main aspect to understand. The incorporeal Supreme Father, the Supreme Soul, who is called the Father is also called the Mother."

Dear Arjun,
You are very correct that Shiv is our Mother as well as our Father.
But, I wanted to ask , which Brahma is the (ONLY) special soul whose part in drama as a mother and a Father is fixed in drama?

[arjun]

Dear Arjun,
You are very correct that Shiv is our Mother as well as our Father.
But, I wanted to ask , which Brahma is the (ONLY) special soul whose part in drama as a mother and a Father is fixed in drama?

I hv already answered. - 'Prajapita Brahma'-Ram

[shivachild]

Murli dated 30.01.2013 says,"It is a very deep aspect to call the One "The Mother and Father". This Brahma is the Father as well as the senior mother. Now, who would this Father call mother? Who would: this mother call mother? This mother cannot have a mother. Just as Shiv Baba doesn't have a Father, in the same way, this mother Brahma does not have a mother."

If Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani is senior mother.Then Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani should be Father also.

[shivachild]

Murli dated 29.04.2013 says,"The Father is God, the Father, and that is fine. He is incorporeal, but the mother cannot be incorporeal. The Father is incorporeal and He will definitely give you an inheritance. Therefore, He has to come here in order that He can give His own introduction. So, this one has to become the mother and Father. This one is therefore the senior mother. Dada (Grandfather) is incorporeal. These are such wonderful things! No one can become the grandmother. Since this creation is mouth born, this Brahma is a male. The Father says: This secret that I am explaining to you, is so deep! It cannot sit in some people's intellects who the mother and Father are."

who is 'this one' in the above underline Murli point? 'this one' is the mother and Father as well as senior mother?

[shivachild]

Murli dated 20.03.2013 says,"To the sweetest, beloved, long-lost and now-found children, love, remembrance and good morning from the Mother, the Father, BapDada. You children understand the meaning of each word. First of all, there is the Mother and Father and then BapDada. The Mother and Father is the One who makes you into the masters of the heaven. Then these two are Bap and Dada. Then "Jagadamba" is said. These are very deep matters. This is the deepest riddle and, by understanding it, people can benefit a great deal. Then, He calls you long-lost and now-found. This is another riddle. He then says: The children who are the decoration of the Brahmin clan, the spinners of the discus of self-realisation. This too is a new riddle. Everything has a riddle within it.Achcha."

In this riddle;

the mother the Father=Shiv
Bap and Dada =(Om Radhey Mama-Jagdamba)+(Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani)

Shiv is creator and BapDada('these two' in the above Murli point) are creation (future Lakshmi-Narayan)