Regarding drishti

[sita]

Extract from the booklet the Ladder:
http://www.PBKs.info/Website%20written% ... di-eng.pdf


"Cries of Draupadi

Many men have been simply surrendered in the Brahmakumari ashrams against the Shrimat. But Baba hasn’t said in any Murli that men should be kept in cowsheds (centers). Arey! If Krishna is God, will he become gaupaal (protector of cows) or will he sustain bulls? Men should safeguard the shaktis42, earn and give [the income] for them. They shouldn’t sit and eat there. A sample of such worship of the elements is seen for some surrendered Brahmakumar; mothers and maidens start serving, worshipping the five elements of men in this way; especially [the services like] massaging, washing clothes, cleaning utensils, etc. Then the disgusting form of that worship definitely comes up. Every man is Duryodhan and Dushasan. Nobody can be God because even God enters Prajapita. When that Prajapita himself is included in the list of Duryodhan and Dushasan, who else will be left? When such a disgusting form comes up, [it has been shown that] Duryodhan-Dushasans are pulling away the honour (cloth) of Draupadi and it has been written below in clear words: “O ShivBaba! Save me.”

Baba has said in the Murli: “The Father says: At this time, everyone is Duryodhan and Draupadi. Duryodhans disrobe Draupadis. [...] In fact, everyone is Draupadi. Be it a kumari (maiden) or a mother, everyone is Draupadi. There are numerous Kiichaks who chase [Draupadis]. [...] The topic of Kiichak, etc. is of the present time.” (Mu.07.05.73, middle of pg.2) “Draupadi cries: Baba, save me from being disrobed. I want to become pure and go to the abode of Krishna. Maidens also call out: parents trouble us, beat us [saying:] you will have to become vicious.” (Mu.01.05.72, middle of pg.2) “There isn’t just one Draupadi. Thousands and crores [of women] are disrobed everyday. Not everyone cries. When those who get the Father’s directions to become pure are troubled to become impure, they call [the Father].” (Mu.01.03.69, beginning of pg.1)

Will a Brahmakumari or will a worldly lady cry out: “O ShivBaba! Save me”? A worldly lady doesn’t know at all who ShivBaba is. In this picture, the entire story of the path of Bhakti of Ravan’s community has been made clear from top to bottom. The person who has been shown in the form of Duryodhan-Dushasan here, is a Brahmakumar in white robe from head to toe. Certainly, a very famous Brahmakumar will be shown [here].[He is wearing] a hat, ackan, curidaar pyjama. Those pictures can also be seen in the old pictures of the Gyaanaamrit [magazine]. So, there are Brahmakumars [like this] at different degrees (nambarvaar).

When the picture was made, it was made through the connection of the intellect with the Intellect of the intelligent ones, the Supreme Father Supreme Soul. Why was it made later? [It was] not [made] through visions, it was made through the connection of the intellect; but it was certainly made before the completion of the shooting of the kingdom of Ravan, wasn’t it? The Supreme Soul had it made, hadn’t He? Just like the Supreme Soul has the scriptures prepared beforehand [or] call it ‘according to the drama plan’. This is fixed in the drama. The Brahmakumar was shown in a white dress. Nowadays they don’t show this dress in the picture of the Ladder. He (the one who has been shown in the picture) has changed his very dress. No demon can hide his face in this Yagya of knowledge. This Brahmin family will become a palace of mirrors. It has been said in the Murli: no demon will be able to hide his face in it. It has been shown here, in the picture that Dushasanji maharaj is holding a dagger in his hand. It has been said about this in the Murli: “Even among you, some remain the ones with a completely worthless intellect (to a greater or a lesser extent). You know that the children are so unworthy (kapuut). Even those who call themselves Brahmakumars are unworthy. The sages are better than them. They remain pure, they are intelligent. Here, there are such ones who are worst than even those from the sinful world.” (Mu.01.10.73, end of pg.3)

“When the maidens go [out] for service, the Kiichaks chase [the Brahmakumaris]. Then it has been written: Bhimsen caught the Kiichaks. Kiichak means completely dirty brutes, who chase [Brahmakumaris]. The topic of Kiichak etc. is about now. At this time, everyone is Draupadi, Kiichak [and] Duryodhan. They belong to the demonic community. You should take care of these [things] a lot. If you come to the Father and [then] become a Kiichak, no one knows in what condition I will put you after becoming Dharmaraj (the Chief Justice).” (Mu.07.05.73, end of the middle part of pg.2) This isn’t about a physical dagger. Baba certainly says that the dagger of lust begins [to be used] from the eyes. It is through the eyes that the dagger [of lust] is used first.

So, the direction which Baba will never have given in the Murli that ‘the immature, maidens of minor age, delicate buds should sit on the sandali and give drishti (the way Brahmins look spiritually at each other during meditation) to various kinds of men; this is called Yoga’, the bodily religious gurus in the Yagya started the same business in order to nurture adultery. The maidens, mothers, Sitas, Savitris of the land of India who are famous for the fact that they didn’t even raise their eyes and looked at the other’s husband like Ravan. Though she (Sita) lived in his kingdom, though she lived in the vatika47, she didn’t raise her eyes and looked at him. What arrangement have these bodily religious gurus made for Bhog (pleasure) in the name of Yoga!

These bodily religious gurus don’t know that they are certainly bodily religious gurus, but even our Father has come in this world. This is why Baba says strongly in the Murli: Children, your Father has come. You are certainly what you are, but you are not going to reform this way. Baba hasn’t said in the Murli, giving drishti to each other itself is called Yoga. ShivBaba used to come in the body of Brahma and give drishti. Those who wanted used to take drishti. So, the world (srishti) can reform through the vision (drishti) of the Supreme Soul. When the indriyaan of human beings meet with the indriyaan of the Supreme Soul, [our] indriyaan can reform, but is the vision of the human beings sinful or pure? The vision of human beings itself is sinful. If the vision improves, what else is required? Then nothing is required. So, how will the human being whose vision is sinful give drishti to others and make them pure? Brahma is also a bodily religious guru. He isn’t God. ShivBaba [is responsible] for his acts, he (his soul)isn’t alone. Why should ShivBaba sit and check each and every person? As you do, so shall you get [in return]. But it (giving drishti) is valid in the case of Brahma because ShivBaba used to come in his body. It isn’t at all valid for men to sit [as teachers]. Here, the maidens [and] mothers are made instruments.

Someone doesn’t become someone’s sister just by considering [her] to be so. ShivBaba doesn’t enter the sister just by considering [that ShivBaba enters her]. Give in writing that she is your sister; but ShivBaba won’t enter her. Gita paathshaalaas have been declared to be valid. A husband and a wife who are following the knowledge can run a Gita paathshaalaa. Even among them, the mother should control the class. That very thing is good. The brother shouldn’t [control the class]. Even if the brother sits, he should sit with his wife in the class. It means, this (men giving drishti) is wrong, this is against the Murli. Baba has said in the Murli: The Father sits in Brahma and gives drishti. He gives sakaash48. You children certainly won’t do so. “Baba says: I give sakaash to every soul. I sit in front [of them] and give light [to them]. You certainly won’t do so.” (Mu.12.04.68, middle of pg.4) It means that the children can’t do so. It isn’t Brahma who gives drishti; who gives drishti even through Brahma? ShivBaba. Does even Brahma’s soul remember [Him] at that time or does it give drishti? It remembers [Him]. So, these bodily religious gurus spread complete irreligiousness (adharma) instead of religiousness (dharma). The root cause of this spread of irreligiousness is that their intellect has become vicious. They are cursed by Kansa well. Their intellect becomes corrupt, otherwise they are very elevated souls if Kansa doesn’t curse them.

Men exchangd glances with women and women exchangd glances with various kinds of men! Arey! The eyes are also indriyaan. Is the exchange of [the power of] this indriya with many adultery or not? Other indriyaan don’t deceive that much; the eyes deceive the most. So, if we keep the company of others through the indriya that deceives the most and that too if the delicate maidens [keep this company], what will be the result?Adultery, corruption will increase all the more. Nobody can stop it. Instead of the establishment of heaven, hell will be established all the more. The same hell is being established in the Yagya. More disputes are going on in the service centers. When are there disputes? The more there is adultery of the indriyaan, the more disputes will there be.

For example, in the picture of the Ladder, that Duryodhan-Dushasan has pressed the leg like intellect of that lady with his leg like intellect; it means, he became dominant [over her], he took her under his control and caught the dagger of lust (kaam kataari) in his hands, meaning he is continuously attacking her with the dagger of [his] eyes. The leg like intellect of the the class of men is very hard but the leg like intellect of the maidens isn’t so hard. Their intellect is soft. Every indriyaan of theirs is delicate. So, when man with hard indriyaan and hard intellect dominates a woman, that woman becomes subordinate. So, it has been shown here how he has pressed [her] leg like intellect with [his] leg. It means, that man dominates her intellect. And the strip of cloth that he is pulling has become dirty. It is not that she isn’t a Brahmakumari [and you think:] why hasn’t she been shown with a white saree? But in order to picturize that the white saree has become dirty, the artist has shown a dirty saree here. Her clothes have been shown to be dirty; what does it mean? These dirty clothes that have been shown is indeed a white saree, but that Dushasan has dirtied the garment like body. This is why in order to show that white saree dirty, it has been coloured dirty. Her garment like body has become [the one] of a dirty prostitute.

It is written here: “O ShivBaba! Save me.” It means, they, meaning the class of weak women don’t have the power to face the male body. It becomes weak because of the colour of the company; this is why, this cry is emerging from within her: O ShivBaba! We surrendered here to remain pure but here, our purity itself is being destroyed. So, the cry emerges from within: O ShivBaba! Save me. These ones are making us a prostitute; we are no longer your Shiv shakti. So, this voice that comes from within is certainly of a Brahmakumari who has been depicted here. A worldly woman won’t pronounce the word ‘ShivBaba’.

The root cause of such vibrations in the Yagya are the men who are surrendered and have sneaked in the centers. It is through them that this entire scandal has been created. Hadn’t those men surrendered, this scandal wouldn’t have arisen. Baba has never given the instruction in the Murlis at all that there is the need to surrender men. Arey, men will earn and eat on their own anywhere in the world; where is the need of safety for them? The
purity of the maidens and mothers can be at risk. They may need security to [maintain] their purity, so they can come and get asylum in the Yagya.

The drama is so strange. The protectors appointed to guard the maidens and mothers themselves become the devourers in the tamopradhaan Iron Age shooting. Perhaps this is the reason why Avyakt BapDada had warned: “The Pandavas (men following the knowledge) have been made the instruments to protect the shaktis by making them guards. The Pandavas should remain behind and make the shaktis move ahead. They (the Pandavas) shouldn’t become guides. They have to become guards. When the Pandavas become guides, there is a disorder. This is why [those in] the Pandava army should become guards.” (A.V.02.04.70, middle of pg.235)

When there is such degradation, the disgusting form of the complete kingdom of Ravan, which isn’t something to be seen through the eyes, comes in front [of us]. In future, this dirt will keep increasing day by day in the world. Not just in the outside world, but in the Brahmin world also, dirt will increase even more in future. Then the things will become clearer."

[mbbhat]

Extract from the booklet the Ladder:
http://www.PBKs.info/Website%20written% ... di-eng.pdf

Cries of Droupadi

In the Ladder picture (old ones)- it is shown an comparatively older person showing dagger/knife to a young woman, and the young woman crying - "ShivBaba, save me" . The man had been shown in white dress(in the old ones).
Mr Dixit took disadvantage and claims as above- (just because) white dress is shown there. But, the Murli point says different. It is about the bandhelis- the one who is in bondage.

SM 9-5-81(2):- Baandheliyon ko bhi radiyaan nahin maarni hai. Ghar may baithe Baap ko Yaad karte raho. Baandheliyon ko to aur he oonch padd mil sakta hai. Kamala phool samaan pavitr rahna hai. SEEDHI CHITR MAY DIKHAYA HAI- JO BACHCHE KI VISH NA MILEY TO BAAP BHI BAHU KO MAARTEY HAIN. YAH SAB GOVERNMENT KO THODE HEE MAALOOM HAI. TUM BACHCHON KO UNHON KE BADON KO SAMJHAANAA CHAHIYE.[Special]

= Those who are in bondage should not shout/complain. Keep remembering ShivBaba while being at home. Those who are in bondage will get high status. Be pure like a lotus. In the Ladder picture, it is shown - if the son does not get poison/lust from wife, even the Father in law beats her. All these the govt does not know. You children have to inform this to the higher officials of the govt.

Baba is saying in Murli that- if the son does not get poison (lust) from her wife, even the Father in law forces her to give.
-----But, PBKs say something else. If in PBK view- if their Prajapita is Dushyaasan, Duryodhan, why do they give drushti to him?

[sita]

Kanyas are surrendered to the Yagya. It is a bondage. There is some brother in the center who is like protector, like husband. And amongst the brothers there are elder brothers whose directions these smaller brothers follow. These respected brothers are forcing the innocent young girls to indulge in drishti with the brothers. But it is said that these souls in bondage can live a life like a lotus and achieve a high position.

Suppose a young sister comes to you. She has been surrendered lately. She is innocent and humble, she does not have ego of knowledge, she is new. She comes to you as an experienced BK and says that she does not like to indulge in drishti. What will happen. You will explain her, that Baba has said so, she should do it.

Baba has said in the Murli that purity is only possible if there is separation of men and women. Even today there are such areas where boys and girsl looking at each other or talking to each other is considered a blunder. But in the Yagya, where greatest purity is observed they are made to face each other and stare in one another for a long time. When one feels attracted, first one likes to see someone.

So you will press with the leg of your intellect her intellect. You will tell her that Baba has said to give and take drishti. If you are good, you will say OK, don't do that, but don't make issue out of it. All are doing. You have been influence by the Shankar party. It is anyway better to follow Shrimat accurately, otherwise you will get a low status.

[mbbhat]

PBKs fooling themselves only:-

Kanyas are surrendered to the Yagya*. It is a bondage.

1) It is not bondage. In PBK view- it may be bondage. Of course, some sisters could be forced by Seniors. Even some surrendered brothers also experience such difficulties, especially in karmanaa service. It is ridiculous of PBK comment.
-----So- if we see the force in Yagya, it is more for karmanaa service than to drushti.

2) BTW- Do PBKs believe it is brothers who give directions or force to give drushti to sisters? - :laugh:
----- The drushti- Yoga is usually taught by sisters (who give 7 days course) to the newcomers (both brothers and sisters).

There is some Brother in the center who is like protector, like husband. And amongst the Brothers there are elder Brothers whose directions these smaller Brothers follow.

3) PBKs only can make such foolish comments. It reminds the story of fox saying grapes are sour!

Suppose a young Sister comes to you. She has been surrendered lately. She is innocent and humble, she does not have ego of knowledge, she is new. ...

4) It seems that PBKs are not aware of what are they and where they are?[- sorry not personal comment, but a clear observation./b]
The drushti-Yoga is taught in the 7 days course itself. Usually it takes a minimum of six months for a sister to surrender to Yagya. Whom are they fooling?

5) Read the Murli point fully if you like- it says- "Govt does not know about these. You should tell/report this to higher officials of the govt"
----So- do PBKs believe BK higher officials do not know these (giving drushti)? Actually, it is said for lowkik govt. They do not know that- even when a kanya tries for purity, she is forced by their in-laws to indulge in vice.
-----Or do PBKs believe here it is said for lowkik Govt, - (who usually claim - all the Murli points are just for BK-PBK world)!- when they fail to explain, they may say so.

* 6) Kindly note that the Murli point clearly says- those who are bondage should stay at home. What is home here- "in PBK view"? [In BK view- it is lowkik home only. Baba is saying- even if there is difficulty, one should stay at home, no need to think- I should stay at center. ]

[sita]

The bondage is the marriage. Sisters are surrendered to God, they marry God, in reality they live within the authority of brothers and sisters, they consider as their family. It is the same bondage as in a lokik family.

The home is the brahmin family. One should not leave both lokik and alokik family. There is a BK government that is supposed to fight corruption, but in reality indulges in corruption as is the case with the lokik government. But some sisters and mother have also approached the lokik government. Sister teach drishti, but through exchanging of drishti among sisters there is not such corruption as with among sisters and brother. Baba has said they have to be separated. As soon as they see each other vicious thoughts arise. But sisters become instrumental to surrender the kanyas to the brothers.

[mbbhat]

# Post No. 03:-

9) Actually, I wanted to say- drushti is given to both the surrendered kanyas as well as the students. So- how come the bondage applies to surrenderred kanyas as the PBK has claimed in the earlier post?

But, now - the PBK says different and just ambiguous.

The bondage is the marriage. Sisters are surrendered to God, they marry God,

10) Is bondage in the Murli point meant as good condition (marriage to God is good condition), is it not?
11) But- not just sisters- all are married to God. So- where is the point of applying just to sisters?

in reality* they live within the authority of Brothers and Sisters, they consider as their family. It is the same bondage as in a lokik family.

12) Once, you say- marriage with God is the bondage, but on the other hand, apply it for lowkik and alowkik family.
In lowkik, all of the people will not have bondage, in many house, women would be fully OK/harmony, sometimes ruling even their husbands. But, here, drushti is practiced almost fully- irrespective of Seniors, juniors, brothers, or sisters, even the govt officials (BK leadership).
----So- the PBK interpretation of the term bondage is just arguing like- my cock has three legs.

There is a BK government that is supposed to fight corruption, but in reality* indulges in corruption as is the case with the lokik government.

13) Murli point says- the got people do not know this. Since PBKs claim- all the Murli points are applicable to BK- PBk Govt, the argument fails.
----So- let PBKs accept that- they sometimes consider word govt to BK/PBk world- sometimes to lowkik world- according to their own choice/interest- when it is not said in Murli point.

But some Sisters and mother have also approached the lokik government. Sister teach drishti, but through exchanging of drishti among Sisters there is not such corruption as with among Sisters and Brother.

14) If PBKs have guts, let them explain fully. Were these sisters from AIVV or BKWSU? May be some PBK sisters might have approached lowkik govt as per direction of Mr Dixit** just to claim that they have followed srimath.
------By the way- do PBKs think that lowkik govt will be able to control drushti matter as per their lowkik law? Not possible, or it will be a silly matter for them
-----But, physically forcing the daughter in law to have lust with husband- such things would be handled by lowki govt.
----But, Baba has also said - unless you become nashtamoha, their intellect will not open. See the Murli point dated - SM 4-2-88(1, 2, 3):- in http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... age#p14871

Baba has said they have to be separated. As soon as they see each other vicious thoughts arise.

It may be limitation of all the PBKs, and weak BKs and some lowkik people also. Thank you for accepting it. So- PBKs openly accept that they are allergic to drushti.


* - When PBKs cannot explain, they say- just opposite to the Murli point- by saying "but in reality"- as already said- they like to argue in twisting manner.

** - If we see the Murli point, it says- report should be given by those who are victims. But, if the PBk sisters had reported to lokik govt (yet to know), then it is again ridiculous, as in PBK view- they are not victims.

15) If PBKs say- the lowkik govt is corrupted, Bk govt is corrupted, do they believe their govt is not corrupted? Their own govt has done blunders, their own main mother has left her alowkik home since 1998, the other first mother Premekanta - a total failure- in their own home.
---As the above PBk just claimed - in the above Murli point- "to stay at home" means "one should not leave both lowkk and alowkik homes" - where do any of the PBk mothers have followed srimath?

16) Further- if we see- the surrendered sisters have left their lowkik home- either in BKWSU or in AIVV. So- how come the home in the Murli point applies to both lowkik, as well as alowkik?
It implies to lowkik home. Very simple logic. Baba is saying- even if you have problem, you should not leave your lowkik home and just expect shelter at centres.
----But, if your argument is taken into account- it them implies -all the PBK surrendered sisters have violated srimath as - they have left their lowkik home.

17) Moreover- (I am almost sure) in the Ladder picture- the victim is shown dressed in colored clothes who says "ShivBaba, help me".
PBKs have got fallen into their own pit. Because how can a surrendered kanya be in colored clothes? There is no surprise if the Father in law is shown in white dress, as many people wear white dress in lowkik. But, no surrendered sister wears colour dress.

And amongst the Brothers there are elder Brothers whose directions these smaller Brothers follow

18) Moreover- the PBK argument interpreting the Murli point - is just acting against ShivBaba as the usual HK Hood.
----They are interpreting the Father and son in the Murli point as elder brother and smaller mother?
----And- they are interpreting the the surrendered kanyas as daughter in law! - :laugh:
----Again - do they believe - it is elder brothers who give directions to younger brothers to give drushti? Do they believe the top administration in BKWSU are brothers, not sisters??

It can be seen that PBKs are responding with at least a little bit of frustration, as they have nothing logical points to explain- as per drama.

[sita]

Baba has also said in many vartlaps that the children are going way too much with the unlimited matter thing, and like to take everything in the unlimited sense. Here it corresponds to the whole belief, so we can apply that. We do believe that the Yagya is in control of the brothers, although it is the sisters in front. There used to be such brothers whom even Baba used to call smarter than Baba. He was considered a knowledgeful soul and was consulted in all the matters regarding knowledge, after the demise of Brahma Baba. He even gave training about how to answer the advanced knowledge points. The administrative power, all the legal matters, are also in the hand of a brother who has done registration against Shrimat.

Bondage means something that binds you to one place. When sisters are surrendered to the Yagya they are supposed to stay there and maintain that relationship. All may be wives of God, only if he is there in practical form and recognized. In the BK at the moment in reality there are no directions coming from ShivBaba, you cannot approach him to solve personal issues, nor can you take drishti from him. The surrendered sisters follow directions of human beings and exchange drishti with human beings.

Surrendered sisters have to practice this daily and even teach others to do that, they are considered instrument responsible, they cannot go away or reject, they have to follow the customs of the home where they have been surrendered. A non-surrendered student definitely has less bondage.

The Brahmin government is not aware that in the BK there are such souls who may indulge in the practice of drishti, still they will claim high status. We believe that such a soul will emerge who although follows the customs, still will outrun others and claim status higher than even Mama and Baba.

The lokik government was not, and is not, aware about the atrocities over purity, because they consider something normal that wife and husband indulge in vice.

17) Moreover- (I am almost sure) in the Ladder picture- the victim is shown dressed in colored clothes who says "ShivBaba, help me". 
PBKs have got fallen into their own pit. Because how can a surrendered kanya be in colored clothes? There is no surprise if the Father in law is shown in white dress, as many people wear white dress in lowkik. But, no surrendered Sister wears colour dress.

If you had read the extract you would have come to this explanation. The cloth is dirty.

The practice of drishti is just a copy of what used to be the practice at the times of Brahma baba, but in Brahma Baba the Supreme Soul was there. Through exchange of drishti between impure humans, there will be downfall.

In the Murli Baba has said that kanyas don't have any bondage. They don't have responsibility to take care about their lokik family, nor they have to work. They can surrender themselves to Godly service entirely. The matter about not leaving the family is if you are married.

[mbbhat]

# Post No. 04:-

We do believe* that the Yagya is in control of the Brothers, although it is the Sisters in front. There used to be such Brothers whom even Baba used to call smarter than Baba. He was considered a knowledgeful soul and was consulted in all the matters regarding knowledge, after the demise of Brahma Baba. He even gave training about how to answer the advanced knowledge points. The administrative power, all the legal matters, are also in the hand of a Brother who has done registration against Shrimat.

1) That was a good argument from your perspective, but totally futile.
Do you think it was brotherJagadish or Ramesh Bhaiji who FIRST gave directions to give drushti even to Dadis and Didis? If you can prove this, you have a point. Else, you are just beating your own drum, and feel that you are knocking on the other person's door. You yourself have said- the giving drushti had been there in Yagya from the period of B baba itself, even the Murli point says so.

2) And Sakar Murlis even imply- Drushti had been given by even other nimitt sisters too. There are Murli points which say- "Some weak students expect nimitt sisters to sit and give drushti = Kayi bachchy kahthay hain - humey braahmani neshtaa may bithaave"

3) Moreoever, drushti is given between two brothers, as well as two sisters too. Drushti is given even to lowkik people- who are not at all in Yagya, for example- while giving toli, sowgath, tying rakhi, etc.
So- just a total failure in proving your claims.

4) But, your complaints regarding- brothers too control Yagya- It is good to know the argument, which clearly proves that BKWSU is really pravruttimarg- both brothers and sisters have full respect, and are actively involved.
So- PBK complaints are like- "owner's pride, neighbour's envy". Mr. Dixit never gives any authority to others. He usually does not permit anyone to give classes. Baba says- the kalash should be with sisters, but in AIVV, it is Mr Dixit's monopoly, and he moves gali2.

Bondage means something that binds you to one place. When Sisters are surrendered to the Yagya they are supposed to stay there and maintain that relationship.

5) Already responded. Drushti is taught in the 7 days course itself. If the kanyas had felt wrong and had started to pray - "ShivBaba, help me", why would they take step to surrender to Yagya? - You fail to address to the point, except saying- my cock has three legs.

6) Most beloved BapDada has said in 1969 Avyakt Murli- that from there onwards, Dadi and Didi are the nimitt souls. So, your complaint or argument saying ShivBaba is not there in person has no value.Already the link is shown to you and is addressed.

Surrendered Sisters have to practice this daily and even teach others to do that, they are considered instrument responsible, they cannot go away or reject, they have to follow the customs of the home where they have been surrendered. A non-surrendered student definitely has less bondage.

7) Well argued, but out of context, as said in above points, and
Baba has not said - one should not give drushti. He has permitted, and has also given direction to practice it at least to some extent. Hence nowhere your argument fits.

The lokik government was not, and is not, aware about the atrocities over purity, because they consider something normal that wife and husband indulge in vice.

8) You claimed the picture and the Murli point is about drushti in BKWSU centers, and that too apply mainly for the surrendered kanyas.
Where does the husband and wife relation arise? PBKs just argue totally irrelevantly.

If you had read the extract you would have come to this explanation. The cloth is dirty.

9) That again proves that it is happening in lowkik homes, not in centres. Obviously, the mothers in bondage when are forced- it will be like dirty only.
----The point of argument was about white dress versus colour dress. But, you again argued out of context, something irrelevant only. So- before claiming something else, the so-called Gyani tum atmas should have at least minimum intelligence to address to the point of arguments, is it not?

----Moreover if it just for drushtiyog, then dress of both of them should have been shown as dirty is it not? - as PBKs believe by giving drushti - both become impure. Or do PBKs believe- just kanyas become impure, and the brothers do not? - ;-)
-----So, it again proves that-the Murli point applies to the mothers who are NOT SURRENDERED, but have bondage in lwokik homes. In lowkik homes- where the mothers are in bondage, the dress of her/victim is likely to be more dirty than the perpetrator, is it not? She is forced or tortured by many people in her home. It is simple to understand.

In the Murli Baba has said that kanyas don't have any bondage. They don't have responsibility to take care about their lokik family, nor they have to work. They can surrender themselves to Godly service entirely. The matter about not leaving the family is if you are married.

10) As usual- just arguing in double standard way. When the the Murli point says about bandhelis, you meant it for the surrendered sisters/kanyas, and Yagya (marriage with God) as a bondage, you said home means both lowkik and alowkik.
But, when you have no reply, you say- Kanyas do not have bondage and can leave their lowkik home.

11) So- from all above, and at many other places-it is evident- When PBKs fail, they try to fix the tail of an elephant to horse, goat, donkey, etc- one by one and still keep on claim- that is accurate.

Through exchange of drishti between impure humans, there will be downfall.

12) Most beloved Almighty ShivBaba has said in his sweet Murlis-
a) Tumhen patit aatmaavon ke mukh dekhney kee bhee darkaar naheen = There is no need to even see face of impure souls.
b) Krodhi kaa mukh dekhnaa bhee paap hai = To see even face of an angry person is also a sin.
c) Agar nashtamoha ho, toh kuch bhee kar saktey ho = When you are nashtamoha(free from attachment), you can do anything. [Even lowkik Gita says the same].
d)Apney ko atma samajhney se koyi bhee law break naheen hotaa = If you consider yourself as soul, you will not break any rule.
e) Gambheerataa se full marks jamaa hota hai Mama toh gambheerataa ki debvi thi = You get full marks by adopting the virtue seriousness/gambheerataa. Mama had been a deity of gambheerataa"
f) Jo sabhee sang dosh se parey hote hain, vahee asht mani aayenge = One who is free from/above from all the influences will come in the top 8

Finally it is sakshi stage (natural gambheerata) that matters. Whether you see, give drushti or not- would be irrelevant. Whatever you do, you are in the state of detachment.
In such a stage, one would not give drushti as BKs usually are doing now. They will do it if there is benefit to others. For this, there is need of power of discrimination (parakhney ki shakti). A doctor does not give same medicines to everyone, everyday, and also - to the same person again and again several times.

That is why Baba has said- "even there is no need to sit and look at the Chariot" - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 270#p15532
-----Because once we understood the power of drushti, then there is no need to get stuck in it or depend on it. Move ahead and make your stage more and more powerful, by becoming self/soul conscious and God conscious instead of physical/limited drushti conscious.

So, number one category children will not depend on or give physical drushti now and then. But, both PBK Guru and the PBKs keep on exchanging drushti still like Kindergarten school children.

PBKs may have their own belief. Thank you, have a wonderful day.

[sita]

It will be different if at the times of Brahma Baba some child is made to sit on the gaddy, because Baba will be responsible and he is also there in the gathering. And it is different if you sit by the instructions of some sister and brother whose words are not Shrimat, or if you sit due to your own wish.

I don't believe it has been the brothers who have introduced the practice of drishti. Theirs is the part of the knife of the eyes. Just as one can sin with his organs, eyes are also organs of the body and can become instrumental for lustful vision. You say Baba has said not to see even the Chariot, but that does not apply to brothers and sisters. It is good to see them. Whilst Baba has said that when we sit in meditation our organs should not touch each other, but for you looking at each others with the eyes is not a distraction, but a good practice.

In the ygaya there are mostly sisters, because the teachings if of purity and sisters follow purity well. Baba has also said that atrocities is mostly to mothers, hardly it will be some wife that will trouble her husband for vice. It is mostly the other way round. It is in the speciality of the male body, that it is harder to control his organs and is expert in taking chances. Whatever little cases of corruption is there in the Yagya are all from brothers to sisters, not the other way round, because sisters are calm and cool. It is always that women are raped by men.

So if brothers will have the chance to look at beautiful girls, they will welcome that. After the demise of Mama, the sister that took her position tried to copy her, but was not at that level, so through that there will be degradation. You can even say that to sit on he gaddi to give drishti is like a work of Harnyakashap, because Baba has said to look at one only, listen to one only, etc. It is certainly adulteration.

After the demise of Brahma Baba, Dadis are made instrumental. But it was said that children should not think that the task of establishment is their responsibility and even now Brahma is there. So they may have been made instrumental to administrate the Yagya and what else could it be. Should all be left to anarchy. But are they intsrumental for Shrimat? No, Shrimat is of the Murlis. The Yagya will run perfectly well without the classes of brothers and sisters, only on the basis of the Murlis. Are the Dadis made instrumental to purify the impure, to give mukti or jeevanmukti? No, for that God has to come himself.

Baba has made Dadis instrumental to run the Yagya along the lines of Shrimat, but it is in the hand of the one who follows if he follows or not. Baba has not taken responsibility in the way as with the Chariot, that whatever Dadis say, consider it ShivBaba speaking and if something through them goes wrong, I will certainly make it right. Nor has Baba said to follow them.

[mbbhat]

# Post No. 05)

It will be different....

1) The point is about the Ladder picture which PBKs claim that drushti should not be given. But, if they believe that picture applies only some people, not to all, and drushti should be given to Chariot, etc, etc- then the same(Chariot givuing drsuthi to children) should have been shown in the picture too. Else, in PBK view- the picture is ambiguous and incomplete. So- PBKs inadvertently are defaming the picture.

And it is different if you sit by the instructions of some Sister and Brother whose words are not Shrimat, or if you sit due to your own wish.

2) PBKs neither know what is srimath not are able to understand what it is.
I have shown Murli points which clearly say- you practice drushti. So- PBKs have absolutely no room to say- giving drushti is manmath. But, Murli says it to go in balanced way. - like a police,man should be able to shoot, but it does not mean he should keep on firing. Similarly one should be able to give drushti. But it does not mean that you always are interested in giving drushti.

To what extent PBKs understand srimath is discussed here- Flaw No. 275 - 62- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51583&hilit=srimath#p51583

I don't believe it has been the Brothers who have introduced the practice of drishti. Theirs is the part of the knife of the eyes.

3) So- your arguments lose value. Why did you then claim (interpreted the Murli point) that- "Big brother(Father?!) gives direction to junior brother(son!? to give drushti (to daughter in law?!)".

Moreover, it is sisters usually sit in guddi and give drushti to all the others, so the control is with sisters, not at all with brothers. Your argument again fails.

In the ygaya there are mostly Sisters, ...

4) Due to your illusion that- the Murli point applies to Yagya, (but actually is applicable to the mothers undergoing atrocities at their lowkik home), you are beating your own drum just to bushes.
You may do so.

5) BTW- a Murli point says- even Father does not do the business of giving drushti (like Mr. Dixit):-

SM 14-2-89(1):- Baap ko Yaad karne se hee vikarm vinash hota hai. Harek ko apney liye mehnath karni padti hai. Aisey naheen Baba baith drushti denge ki inkey paap cut jaaye. Baap baith yah dhandhaa naheen karthay. Yoon toh sabko dekhenge hee. Dekhney vaa gyaan dene se vikarm vinaash naheen honge. -59-

= Sins are burnt by remembrance of Father. Each needs to put effort for oneself. It is not that Father gives drushti to burn someones sins. Father does not sit and do this work/business. Of course, he will see all. By seeing or by giving knowledge, sins do not get burnt.

6) SM 21-12-70(3):- Aim Object toh Baap bataa dete hain. Purusharth karna bachchon ka kaam hai. Tab hi itna oonch pad paa sakenge. Koyi ulta sulta sankalp vikalp na aaye. Baap hai knowledge ke sagar. Hadh behad se paar. Sabhi baith samjhate hain. Tum samajhte ho Baba humko dekhte hain. Parantu hum to Hadh behad se paar chala jaataa hun. Main rahnevala bhi vahaan kaa hun. Tum bhi hadh behad se paar chale jaavo. Sankalp vikalp kuch bhi na aave. Ismay mehnat chaahiye.

= Father gives aim object. It is for children to do effort. Then only (you) can attain such a high status. No ulta-sulta(wrong) thought should come. Father is ocean of knowledge- beyond limited and unlimited. Father sits and explains everything. You think (when giving drsuthi) Baba sees(gazes) us. BUT I GO BEYOND LIMITED and UNLIMITED. YOU ALSO GO BEYOND LIMITED AND UNLIMITED. Let no sankalp or vikalp(ripples, thoughts) come. There is need of effort in this.

But, Kindergarten school children believe Father has advised to see face of Mr Dixit for half an hour to hour like a chaataka bird and practice it like a hathayog.

Shivsena Bhai, I don't agree with your views because first of all ShivBaba does not give drishti to the PBKs through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit for hours together. He gives drishti only for a period varying from a half an hour to an hour depending on the number of PBKs sitting in the gathering. Otherwise, during the PBK gatherings when Baba is not physically present, the PBKs practice RajYoga (remembrance) only for about half an hour daily. Even as regards Amrit Vela, ShivBaba has clarified that if someone is feeling sleepy during remembrance at Amrit Vela, he/she can remember while doing any other work or start reading Murlis to avoid drowsiness. viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2440&p=43445&hilit=hour#p43445

[mbbhat]

Nor has Baba said to follow them.

Sorry, you again failed. Baba has clearly said- follow serviceable children. But, they are not given as respect as Chariot.

ShivBaba has kept the Chariot very next to him, and then the serviceable children. But, PBKs have kept their Chariot above God and no place for serviceable children.

Only HK Hood and monopoly.

[sita]

5) BTW- a Murli point says- even Father does not do the business of giving drushti (like Mr. Dixit):-

It is said that sins are not cut through drishti, not that he does not give drishti.

Baba has explained why is the practice of sitting in meditation, it is for such souls who don't remember the whole day, so at least when they sit they may have some remembrance.

In the Murli it is said that I will sit you on my eyelids and take you. I don't know what is the BK interpretation of that, but we understand that Baba will give such a powerful drishti that the soul will fly in a high stage.

5) BTW- a Murli point says- even Father does not do the business of giving drushti (like Mr. Dixit):-

Are there more serviceable children than Mama and baba?

[mbbhat]

Are there more serviceable children than Mama and Baba?

1) Definitely in PBk view. No doubt.

But- the Godly view is put here - Post No. 12 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 7&start=10

Baba has explained why is the practice of sitting in meditation, it is for such souls who don't remember the whole day, so at least when they sit they may have some remembrance.

2) So- PBKs losing their grip on drushti now, and have stepped back! Previously, their claim was as if- every child should take drushti from the Chariot, and God gives sakash to every child through physical drushti!

In the Murli it is said that I will sit you on my eyelids and take you. I don't know what is the BK interpretation of that, but we understand that Baba will give such a powerful drishti that the soul will fly in a high stage.

Baba says- buddhi roopi paav = Intellect is like leg, buddhi roopi vimaan = intellect is like aeroplane, etc.

Similarly, eyelids mean in the same way as with intellect/light and full of Love.

BTW- Mr Dixit sometimes dozes while giving drushti! He even gets angry sometimes, when a question has been put to him. Proof for these have already been given in the forum.

Let PBKs believe in what they believe. It is up to them.

[mbbhat]

# Post No. 07) Another proof about dress:-

If you had read the extract you would have come to this explanation. The cloth is dirty.

Just adding to the above.

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2422&p=44241&hilit ... ary#p43674 - In the Ladder picture- Post No. 73 - the perpetrator is shown wearing a white cap/hat/topi on his head- which usually lowkik people wear. BKs usually do not wear such topis. *

So- this again points to lowkik people.

* - Some BKs wear occasionally which has ShivBaba logo on it, but very rarely and wear it during peace march, etc in sanghatan. But, in lowkik, it is a custom in their dress code.
Moreover, the design of the cap is not as shown in the Ladder picture- which actually matches to the extent of 100% with those of lowkik people.

[sita]

This was also the outfit of a prominent BK at that time.